On Mon, 24 May 2010 18:49:08 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 24/05/2010 4:08 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2010 07:36:05 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Obviously, this oil spill has caused very little damage so far in
spite of being huge. IN relative terms, it's damage is far smaller
than a single weeks worth of tourism. So far, I am totally
unimpressed by any damage from the spill and I think this will
actually cause technology to be developed for spills that would be
problems.

gee. imagine if all the damage you did to your lungs by cigaret
smoking happened only in a month...

IOW you dont know what the hell you're talking about

In reality, oil isn't as bad as you think to the environment. It is a
naturally occuring substance and often leaks out anyway. Take the oil
sands, if not mined out, it might just wash into the arctic.

gee. we chemists think it's pretty bad. why?

well for starters it has ALOT of chemical energy...benzene...other
aromatic hydrocarbons that organisms can't digest.

as to it's 'naturally occurring'...gee. if you take a teaspoon of
cyanide, is that OK because it's not alot of cyanide?


That being said, it isn't good to release that much at once. But unlike
plastic bottles, cans, toilets, tires, boats, city garbage that still
exists in the gulf 20-70 years after they are dumped, oil will only take
a few years to disolve back into the environment.

yeah. tell it to the fishermen who lost their jobs courtesy of the oil
that doesn't affect anything

On Mon, 24 May 2010 23:09:50 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2010 18:05:10 -0400, bpuharic wrote:



as thad allen said today, who else has the expertise? what else would
be done?


Maybe another driller? The point is the feds have just stood back and
taken what BP says as gospel. People like Woods Hole have a lot more
underwater expertise and better vehicles.

WHOI probably does...but oil drilling at that depth is a specialty.
i'm not sure what else could be done at this point...it's new
territory

what i AM surprised about is the lack of planning for such an event.
BP seems to have taken as gospel transoceanic's assurances that
everything was under control

There may also be other
companies that could bring a lot more to bear on this.
It took almost a month to get decent pictures of the blowout.
I know they tried a small top hat, why not a huge one?

i think the larger one they first tried filled with crystallized
methane and became too buoyant to sit over the well head



so far no one has come up with better ideas.

It seems the only people who are allowed to have ideas are the BP
morons who caused the problem in the first place.

the real fault was drilling in areas we could not control.

yep. that, to me, is the root cause. lack of planning for a probable
event...it was just laziness on TO's part


That and a few major errors that violated the BP protocols.
They broke the BOP and ignored it. Then they violated protocol by not
plugging the well with mud when they were supposed to. This wasn't a
drilling failure it was a criminal act.

and they had indications there was methane in the well yet they
ignored that during their tests...

BTW
36 days ago Obama was still in favor of this kind of drilling, much to
the dismay of his new BFF, Charlie Crist..

i see no indication that we have enough oil offshore to even make a
dent in our energy situation. a few billion barrels isn't going to
make a difference.

On 5/24/2010 11:09 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2010 18:05:10 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2010 18:04:32 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2010 12:42:39 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

So, I guess you can't read... "over the past 20 years" is quite telling. Who
were former oil men? Bush/Cheney.



If Bush had left BP in charge of this cluster**** for over a month
without any meaningful federal response the left would be losing their
mind.
James Carville, not exactly a GOP cheerleader, is one of the most
vocal critics of the lack of federal action and lack of pressure on
BP. He wants to know why we still trust BP to manage this problem.

as thad allen said today, who else has the expertise? what else would
be done?


Maybe another driller? The point is the feds have just stood back and
taken what BP says as gospel. People like Woods Hole have a lot more
underwater expertise and better vehicles. There may also be other
companies that could bring a lot more to bear on this.
It took almost a month to get decent pictures of the blowout.
I know they tried a small top hat, why not a huge one? Something like
a several hundred ton concrete containment vessel that will not be
floated up with a little ice and gas. Attach a pipe to that and pump
that out to hold it tight on the bottom. Then bury the whole mess with
another several thousand yards of fill dirt. The oil they pumped up
from that would be ready for the refinery.


so far no one has come up with better ideas.

It seems the only people who are allowed to have ideas are the BP
morons who caused the problem in the first place.

the real fault was drilling in areas we could not control.

That and a few major errors that violated the BP protocols.
They broke the BOP and ignored it. Then they violated protocol by not
plugging the well with mud when they were supposed to. This wasn't a
drilling failure it was a criminal act.

BTW
36 days ago Obama was still in favor of this kind of drilling, much to
the dismay of his new BFF, Charlie Crist..
I wonder of Opie had thought of asking NASA to look into the problem.

On Mon, 24 May 2010 16:58:43 -0400, John smith wrote:

On 5/24/2010 3:42 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 May 2010 15:16:50 -0400, moose wrote:

On 5/24/2010 1:02 PM, hk wrote:
On 5/24/10 12:50 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/05/2010 8:46 AM, Frogwatch wrote:
On May 24, 10:36 am, wrote:
Obviously, this oil spill has caused very little damage so far in
spite of being huge. IN relative terms, it's damage is far smaller
than a single weeks worth of tourism. So far, I am totally
unimpressed by any damage from the spill and I think this will
actually cause technology to be developed for spills that would be
problems.

Of course when you have a foreign oil company bribing the Obama admin
to ignore normal requirements, bad things can happen. You play by
Chicago rules and the Gulf Coast gets hurt. Obama does not care about
anybody in the south, he completely ignored the spill until the media
jumped on it and then ignored Nashville compeltely.

Didn't big mouth Obama say just a few weeks earlier to the start of
the
spill that he wanted more oil drilling? Did he not open up new tracts
for that purpose?

After all, DC is hungry for $$$ and developing ones own oil has a
fantastic tax return for DC greedy overspending democrats.



It's comical how the mindless right keeps trying to shift the blame for
BP's screw-ups to the government.

Didn't the gubmint turn a blind eye to some safety violations on BP's
rigs? What's that all about? I smell a rat. A big greedy gubmint rat.

Absolutely. Obama's folks have been in bed with BP from the gitgo.

"BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal
candidates
over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to
Obama,
according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Donations come from a
mix of
employees and the company's political action committees - $2.89
million flowed
to campaigns from BP-related PACs and about $638,000 came from
individuals."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64420A20100505

Of course, Reuters is just another right wing rag.
--
John H

"When I die, bury me at WalMart so Harry will visit me."

So, I guess you can't read... "over the past 20 years" is quite telling.
Who were former oil men? Bush/Cheney.


That was quite dishonest, assuming you can read. Here's more.

"over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to
Obama,"

Now that's what I call "quite telling". And Obama isn't even an oil
man................................yet.

As with most liberals, nincdeplume isn't known for her honesty. She's attempting
to walk a mile in Harry's shoes.
--
John H

"When I die, bury me at WalMart so Harry will visit me."

On Tue, 25 May 2010 11:27:39 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

On Tue, 25 May 2010 06:42:23 -0400, moose wrote:

I wonder of Opie had thought of asking NASA to look into the problem.

I doubt NASA has much to offer but the Navy and perhaps the CIA might
have some deep water capability they could bring to the party. What ever
happened to the Glomar Explorer? That had the heavy lift capacity to
deliver a dome that would not float up. It picked up a flooded Soviet
sub.

You sure that's a good idea? Transocean is operating that as a drilling
rig.

On 5/25/10 11:44 AM, thunder wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 11:27:39 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

On Tue, 25 May 2010 06:42:23 -0400, wrote:

I wonder of Opie had thought of asking NASA to look into the problem.

I doubt NASA has much to offer but the Navy and perhaps the CIA might
have some deep water capability they could bring to the party. What ever
happened to the Glomar Explorer? That had the heavy lift capacity to
deliver a dome that would not float up. It picked up a flooded Soviet
sub.

You sure that's a good idea? Transocean is operating that as a drilling
rig.


What has become apparent is our dependency on the private sector to
clean up its messes. That dependency is not working out for us. Perhaps
we need to develop federal government operational capabilities in the
fields of drilling, operating, and cleaning up after the inevitable
messes connected with oil drilling, and not a contracted out capability.

I find it interesting that so much of our economy that is almost
entirely run by the private sector simply does not work: health care,
resource exploitation (oil, gas, coal), maufacturing.


--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.

On Tue, 25 May 2010 11:51:04 -0400, hk wrote:


What has become apparent is our dependency on the private sector to
clean up its messes. That dependency is not working out for us. Perhaps
we need to develop federal government operational capabilities in the
fields of drilling, operating, and cleaning up after the inevitable
messes connected with oil drilling, and not a contracted out capability.

You know, government has already done their part. The MMS gave BP a pass
on the environmental disaster plan. Frankly, I don't expect this to stop
until the relief wells conclude. BP is drilling two relief wells. I
heard recently, one is at 10,000' and the other at 8,500'. Relief wells
are proven. This other stuff is just wishful thinking, IMO.

On 5/25/10 12:12 PM, thunder wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 11:51:04 -0400, hk wrote:


What has become apparent is our dependency on the private sector to
clean up its messes. That dependency is not working out for us. Perhaps
we need to develop federal government operational capabilities in the
fields of drilling, operating, and cleaning up after the inevitable
messes connected with oil drilling, and not a contracted out capability.

You know, government has already done their part. The MMS gave BP a pass
on the environmental disaster plan. Frankly, I don't expect this to stop
until the relief wells conclude. BP is drilling two relief wells. I
heard recently, one is at 10,000' and the other at 8,500'. Relief wells
are proven. This other stuff is just wishful thinking, IMO.


I'm thinking of future well disasters. I think it is folly to depend
upon the oil industry for the answers.

--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.

On 5/25/2010 11:27 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 06:42:23 -0400, wrote:

I wonder of Opie had thought of asking NASA to look into the problem.

I doubt NASA has much to offer but the Navy and perhaps the CIA might
have some deep water capability they could bring to the party.
What ever happened to the Glomar Explorer? That had the heavy lift
capacity to deliver a dome that would not float up. It picked up a
flooded Soviet sub.

I thought of NASA because of their ability to solve unusual problems
quickly. But a solution might come from MIT or Stamford or General
Dynamics or any number of places. I'm only sure of one thing, When a
solution is found, Opie will be out in front taking his bows.

On 5/25/10 12:23 PM, moose wrote:
On 5/25/2010 11:27 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 06:42:23 -0400, wrote:

I wonder of Opie had thought of asking NASA to look into the problem.

I doubt NASA has much to offer but the Navy and perhaps the CIA might
have some deep water capability they could bring to the party.
What ever happened to the Glomar Explorer? That had the heavy lift
capacity to deliver a dome that would not float up. It picked up a
flooded Soviet sub.

I thought of NASA because of their ability to solve unusual problems
quickly. But a solution might come from MIT or Stamford or General
Dynamics or any number of places. I'm only sure of one thing, When a
solution is found, Opie will be out in front taking his bows.


You know, with your skill set, you should be out at the Gulf, oil mop
and bucket in hand. You could wear your old sailor's hat.

--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.