nom=de=plume wrote:
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been
talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range,
berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a
suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next
October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south).
The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range,
perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and
what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in
sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest
boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



I hear that... we've had lots of talks about what would happen if..... it
would all have to be in writing of course. We're pretty easy-going people (I
know, hard to tell from some of my posts), and we both have legal
backgrounds, although from a different area. Also, I don't want to own the
boat all myself... And, I don't want to be a "guest" either.


Consider a club. Some have boats all over the country. You will know
exactly what your costs are with no surprises.

http://www.harboryc.com/

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat...
he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been
talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range,
berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a
suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next
October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south).
The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K
range,
perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and
what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier
to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and
time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience
goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes
with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how
we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else
a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in
sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest
boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



I hear that... we've had lots of talks about what would happen if..... it
would all have to be in writing of course. We're pretty easy-going people
(I
know, hard to tell from some of my posts), and we both have legal
backgrounds, although from a different area. Also, I don't want to own
the
boat all myself... And, I don't want to be a "guest" either.


Consider a club. Some have boats all over the country. You will know
exactly what your costs are with no surprises.

http://www.harboryc.com/



Not sure what you mean. I would imagine there are lots of clubs for boating
in the SF area, but neither of us wants to rent, and I've never heard of one
that would let you take a boat for an extended time.. e.g., a couple of
months or more.

--
Nom=de=Plume

Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly
a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about
is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the
bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and
then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the
supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for
each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room,
depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get
retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing
classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest boat
than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships
that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all
know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have
to consider it's use and how that will be divided.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat...
he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly
a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking
about
is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on
the
bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and
then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the
supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost
for
each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle
room,
depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get
retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier
to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and
time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience
goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes
with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how
we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else
a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in
sailing
classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest
boat
than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships
that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all
know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have
to consider it's use and how that will be divided.


Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the
"real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at
least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself
(and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat out
with friends, but I have no problem with that.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the
"real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at
least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself
(and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat out
with friends, but I have no problem with that.

My advice? Be very, very careful. I have seen quite a few boat
partnerships over the years and most have ended badly, some very badly
with years of legal disputes to unwind and broken friendships.

Almost everyone under estimates the total cost of ownership. It can
be really staggering at times, and it never stops. You have truly
got to love boats, and have quite a bit of disposable income to get
serious about owning part of a large boat. No two people ever seem to
agree on what expenses are necessary, what maintenance must be done,
or what equipment needs to be purchased. Some of those decisions are
difficult for one person to make let alone a committee.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the
"real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at
least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself
(and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat
out
with friends, but I have no problem with that.

My advice? Be very, very careful. I have seen quite a few boat
partnerships over the years and most have ended badly, some very badly
with years of legal disputes to unwind and broken friendships.

Almost everyone under estimates the total cost of ownership. It can
be really staggering at times, and it never stops. You have truly
got to love boats, and have quite a bit of disposable income to get
serious about owning part of a large boat. No two people ever seem to
agree on what expenses are necessary, what maintenance must be done,
or what equipment needs to be purchased. Some of those decisions are
difficult for one person to make let alone a committee.


Certainly good advice. Thanks. I'm not terribly savvy about "equipment"
requirements for long travels. I would defer to Jay. As far as the others
go, that's certainly a concern, given them not putting a lot of money up
front. I think it would get more tricky if/when they start paying for
equipment, which would have to be a group decision. I'm thinking it would be
majority rule, so if our friends, say, wanted radar, and we didn't, it would
be overruled. I'm willing to usually defer to Jay, so that would mean the
only way it could happen against his wishes would be for me to team up with
both of the other people. I think that's pretty unlikely, except perhaps
when it comes to food or wine color.

Jay and I would be using our savings both to buy the boat and to be away
(mostly) from income-producing situations. The other couple would be
spending what they can afford while we're still here, then have a free ride
(e.g., food/drink/lodging/fees) for as long as they wanted to travel with
us. I know they don't want to commit to more than 2-3 months, and I know we
want to commit to a bit longer. Another tricky part is when/if we decided to
give up the boat, how (or would) we give them some of their equipment money
back. I'm pretty easy about it, depending on how much they really want. None
of us are hurting for funds, so it would be more of a what-seems-fair vs.
need. I (and Sal) would be in learning mode for sailing and fixing, but Jay
and Brian would have to be comfortable with Jay being the skipper.

I don't really get seasick... but I've never been off shore for more than a
few hours. Sal tends to eat her way out of any unpleasant stomach issues,
and Jay/Brian claim to be rock solid. (... another good reason for me/Sal to
know what's what, since they're typically full of sh*t)

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships
that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all
know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have
to consider it's use and how that will be divided.


Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the
"real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at
least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself
(and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat out
with friends, but I have no problem with that.

Here's a thought for what it's worth. Before investing a lot of
money in a partnership that may or may not work out (odds are
against), all four of you should charter a boat somewhere for a week
or two and see how it goes. It is amazing how fast personality and
other issues reveal themselves in the close quarters of living aboard
a boat. You will also learn something about what boat features and
equipment are important to you.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships
that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all
know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have
to consider it's use and how that will be divided.


Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the
"real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at
least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself
(and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat
out
with friends, but I have no problem with that.

Here's a thought for what it's worth. Before investing a lot of
money in a partnership that may or may not work out (odds are
against), all four of you should charter a boat somewhere for a week
or two and see how it goes. It is amazing how fast personality and
other issues reveal themselves in the close quarters of living aboard
a boat. You will also learn something about what boat features and
equipment are important to you.


Good idea.
I recommend Roadtown, Tortola in the BVI.
I have a contact there that will be helpful to her.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships
that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all
know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have
to consider it's use and how that will be divided.


Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the
"real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at
least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself
(and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat
out
with friends, but I have no problem with that.

Here's a thought for what it's worth. Before investing a lot of
money in a partnership that may or may not work out (odds are
against), all four of you should charter a boat somewhere for a week
or two and see how it goes. It is amazing how fast personality and
other issues reveal themselves in the close quarters of living aboard
a boat. You will also learn something about what boat features and
equipment are important to you.


We've been rough packing/camping several times for almost a week with no
problems, but I do like that idea. I've suggested that we rent a boat on the
bay for a three-day weekend to see how we (I) deal with colder weather.
We've talked about renting a boat in Mexico (Baja), since that's where we
would go as a first stop. Give the weather patterns, I would think late in
the year for that area.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat...
he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly
a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking
about
is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on
the
bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and
then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the
supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost
for
each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle
room,
depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get
retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier
to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and
time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience
goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes
with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how
we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else
a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in
sailing
classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest
boat
than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships
that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all
know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have
to consider it's use and how that will be divided.

It'll probably all be fine until one of the fake partners gets caught
dithering another fake partners partner. Then all fake hell will break loose
and the fake partnership will go bust, leaving the fake boat to rot at the
fake dock and eventually be sold for fake scrap to pay the fake dockage.
NG bull**** may not be the finest there is but there sure is plenty of it.