going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a
Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is
getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay
(probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then
taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed
"weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us
would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending
upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American
if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico.
I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the
Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal,
because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have
a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail
together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are
best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting.
I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not
quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in
the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should
consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty
compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty
independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I
guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on
whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a
Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is
getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay
(probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then
taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed
"weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us
would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending
upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American
if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico.
I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the
Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal,
because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have
a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail
together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are
best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting.
I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not
quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in
the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should
consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty
compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty
independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I
guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on
whatever we get).


The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera.

--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

On Apr 14, 3:36*pm, hk wrote:
On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:



My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a
Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is
getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay
(probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then
taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed
"weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us
would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending
upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American
if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico.
I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the
Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal,
because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have
a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail
together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are
best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting.
I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not
quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in
the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should
consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty
compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty
independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I
guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on
whatever we get).

The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera.

--http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason?
Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as
IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be
good. S2 are good and they did make a 36
No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day,
Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay
a lot and it is newer.

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"hk" wrote in message
...
On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly a
Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about
is
getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the
bay
(probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then
taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed
"weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of
us
would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending
upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American
if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico.
I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just
the
Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal,
because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have
a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail
together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys
are
best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting.
I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're
not
quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in
the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should
consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty
compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty
independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat,
but I
guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on
whatever we get).


The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera.

--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym


I don't think we're interested in older boats in general. We're all
concerned about spending money on fixing vs. spending time having fun.


--
Nom=de=Plume

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly
a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about
is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the
bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and
then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the
supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for
each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room,
depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get
retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing
classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest boat
than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote:
On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:



My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat...
he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly a
Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about
is
getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the
bay
(probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then
taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed
"weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of
us
would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room,
depending
upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier
to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American
if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and
time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico.
I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just
the
Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal,
because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have
a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we
sail
together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys
are
best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting.
I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're
not
quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make
in
the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should
consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty
compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty
independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat,
but I
guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on
whatever we get).

The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera.

--http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason?
Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as
IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be
good. S2 are good and they did make a 36
No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day,
Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay
a lot and it is newer.


Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I don't
think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good quality boat
seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know what equipment
we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's needed. Mason
sounds interesting. Are Cals being made?
--
Nom=de=Plume

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"W1TEF" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 12:25:53 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico.

Allow me to give you the benefit of my experience with this.

Back when I was chartering, I took on a partner who was the son of a
friend of mine. He didn't have a lot of "cash" to buy in with me, but
he had been laid off, had a little money to spare and wanted to get
into chartering. He offered to put "sweat equity" into the boat -
essentially operating for free with his "pay" going back into the
boat.

The way it worked was pretty simple. He bought in with 1/10th the
value of the boat and "owned" 25% of the operation. I owned 50% of
the operation and the boat owned the other 25%. We wrote the contract
up so that the boat always voted with me when it came to company
issues.

In the contract, his "sweat equity" stake was clearly defined - he had
a set of responsibilities, a fixed amount for every charter with the
rest going to me and the boat and some other details that he was
directly responsible for. For instance, he was responsible for
checking and maintaining the slip, cleaning the boat every trip, he
was paid his regular amount if he worked as my mate. He was paid 25%
of the net profits out of which 10% was deducted towards his 25%
ownership stake. There were some other minor things he had to do, but
that was the gist of the contract - gives you some ideas like the boat
paying back any costs on maintenance or other issues like that.

His Dad was a lawyer and drew up the contract so that didn't cost him
anything. Eventually he did well enough to full fund his 25% stake
and eventually bought me and the boat out when I quit chartering on a
regular basis.

It's a good idea to get the responsibilities of the "sweat equity"
down pat and give your equity partners a firm stake in the boat -
gives them a sense of ownership which counts a lot towards solving any
issues that come up. Just make sure that you have the cash to buy
them out should they decide not to continue in the relationship and
have that process defined in the contract. For instance, the buy out
should be defined at a certain depreciation rate off the initial stake
- things like that. I can give you some ideas along those lines
should you decide to take the plunge.

With respect to the boats, I concur with your friend - Island Packet
makes some terrific boats. I have some experience with a friend who
has an Island Packet PacketCat. Perhaps not the best "cruiser" in the
sense of "privacy" and the sleeping arrangements are fairly open, but
as a cruiser? That is one sweet boat.

http://www.ipy.com/ShowBoat.asp?Inte...at=Packe tCat

Good luck on your hunt.


Definitely whatever arrangement we come up with will be a legal contract,
with specific responsibilities spelled out... I would do this for any large
dollar commitment (the lawyer in me). I'm not really too worried about it
though with these people. Mostly, by sweat equity (and time equity) I meant
that they would pay for the upgrades (which we're assuming would be
necessary), even if the boat is fairly new. As for time, they would likely
be the ones (actually the guy) to do whatever work is required to put in the
upgrades. They've both got plenty of cash, but we (my friend and I) want to
actually own the boat. They need to work still, so more than a couple of
months off would hurt them financially, where we could probably go 12 to 18
months without getting too stressed. I can always get work if I need it in
my former profession and my business should be self-sustaining (mostly) by
then.

I'm really hoping to benefit the most... the two guys are pretty decent
sailors, the other woman mostly wants to hang out, and I like to cook. So,
I'd get some good hands on sailing experience (even locally).

Nice looking boat... we're mostly looking at single hulls, although we've
discussed getting a big cat. Part of the problem is that it's hard to find a
good berth, since they're double-wide, so double the cost.

--
Nom=de=Plume

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been
talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range,
berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a
suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next
October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south).
The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range,
perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and
what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in
sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest
boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



I hear that... we've had lots of talks about what would happen if..... it
would all have to be in writing of course. We're pretty easy-going people (I
know, hard to tell from some of my posts), and we both have legal
backgrounds, although from a different area. Also, I don't want to own the
boat all myself... And, I don't want to be a "guest" either.

--
Nom=de=Plume

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly
a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about
is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the
bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and
then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the
supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for
each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room,
depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get
retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing
classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest boat
than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships
that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all
know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have
to consider it's use and how that will be divided.

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

nom=de=plume wrote:
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been
talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range,
berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a
suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next
October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south).
The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range,
perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and
what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in
sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest
boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



I hear that... we've had lots of talks about what would happen if..... it
would all have to be in writing of course. We're pretty easy-going people (I
know, hard to tell from some of my posts), and we both have legal
backgrounds, although from a different area. Also, I don't want to own the
boat all myself... And, I don't want to be a "guest" either.


Consider a club. Some have boats all over the country. You will know
exactly what your costs are with no surprises.

http://www.harboryc.com/