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going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera. -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
On Apr 14, 3:36*pm, hk wrote:
On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason? Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be good. S2 are good and they did make a 36 No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day, Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay a lot and it is newer. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"hk" wrote in message
... On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera. -- http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym I don't think we're interested in older boats in general. We're all concerned about spending money on fixing vs. spending time having fun. -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). -- Nom=de=Plume Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure! I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat. Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
... On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote: On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason? Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be good. S2 are good and they did make a 36 No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day, Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay a lot and it is newer. Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I don't think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good quality boat seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know what equipment we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's needed. Mason sounds interesting. Are Cals being made? -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"W1TEF" wrote in message
... On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 12:25:53 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. Allow me to give you the benefit of my experience with this. Back when I was chartering, I took on a partner who was the son of a friend of mine. He didn't have a lot of "cash" to buy in with me, but he had been laid off, had a little money to spare and wanted to get into chartering. He offered to put "sweat equity" into the boat - essentially operating for free with his "pay" going back into the boat. The way it worked was pretty simple. He bought in with 1/10th the value of the boat and "owned" 25% of the operation. I owned 50% of the operation and the boat owned the other 25%. We wrote the contract up so that the boat always voted with me when it came to company issues. In the contract, his "sweat equity" stake was clearly defined - he had a set of responsibilities, a fixed amount for every charter with the rest going to me and the boat and some other details that he was directly responsible for. For instance, he was responsible for checking and maintaining the slip, cleaning the boat every trip, he was paid his regular amount if he worked as my mate. He was paid 25% of the net profits out of which 10% was deducted towards his 25% ownership stake. There were some other minor things he had to do, but that was the gist of the contract - gives you some ideas like the boat paying back any costs on maintenance or other issues like that. His Dad was a lawyer and drew up the contract so that didn't cost him anything. Eventually he did well enough to full fund his 25% stake and eventually bought me and the boat out when I quit chartering on a regular basis. It's a good idea to get the responsibilities of the "sweat equity" down pat and give your equity partners a firm stake in the boat - gives them a sense of ownership which counts a lot towards solving any issues that come up. Just make sure that you have the cash to buy them out should they decide not to continue in the relationship and have that process defined in the contract. For instance, the buy out should be defined at a certain depreciation rate off the initial stake - things like that. I can give you some ideas along those lines should you decide to take the plunge. With respect to the boats, I concur with your friend - Island Packet makes some terrific boats. I have some experience with a friend who has an Island Packet PacketCat. Perhaps not the best "cruiser" in the sense of "privacy" and the sleeping arrangements are fairly open, but as a cruiser? That is one sweet boat. http://www.ipy.com/ShowBoat.asp?Inte...at=Packe tCat Good luck on your hunt. Definitely whatever arrangement we come up with will be a legal contract, with specific responsibilities spelled out... I would do this for any large dollar commitment (the lawyer in me). I'm not really too worried about it though with these people. Mostly, by sweat equity (and time equity) I meant that they would pay for the upgrades (which we're assuming would be necessary), even if the boat is fairly new. As for time, they would likely be the ones (actually the guy) to do whatever work is required to put in the upgrades. They've both got plenty of cash, but we (my friend and I) want to actually own the boat. They need to work still, so more than a couple of months off would hurt them financially, where we could probably go 12 to 18 months without getting too stressed. I can always get work if I need it in my former profession and my business should be self-sustaining (mostly) by then. I'm really hoping to benefit the most... the two guys are pretty decent sailors, the other woman mostly wants to hang out, and I like to cook. So, I'd get some good hands on sailing experience (even locally). Nice looking boat... we're mostly looking at single hulls, although we've discussed getting a big cat. Part of the problem is that it's hard to find a good berth, since they're double-wide, so double the cost. -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Don White" wrote in message
... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). -- Nom=de=Plume Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure! I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat. Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run. I hear that... we've had lots of talks about what would happen if..... it would all have to be in writing of course. We're pretty easy-going people (I know, hard to tell from some of my posts), and we both have legal backgrounds, although from a different area. Also, I don't want to own the boat all myself... And, I don't want to be a "guest" either. -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
Don White wrote:
wrote in message ... My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). -- Nom=de=Plume Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure! I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat. Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run. You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have to consider it's use and how that will be divided. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
nom=de=plume wrote:
"Don wrote in message ... wrote in message ... My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). -- Nom=de=Plume Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure! I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat. Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run. I hear that... we've had lots of talks about what would happen if..... it would all have to be in writing of course. We're pretty easy-going people (I know, hard to tell from some of my posts), and we both have legal backgrounds, although from a different area. Also, I don't want to own the boat all myself... And, I don't want to be a "guest" either. Consider a club. Some have boats all over the country. You will know exactly what your costs are with no surprises. http://www.harboryc.com/ |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Larry" wrote in message
... nom=de=plume wrote: "Don wrote in message ... wrote in message ... My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). -- Nom=de=Plume Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure! I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat. Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run. I hear that... we've had lots of talks about what would happen if..... it would all have to be in writing of course. We're pretty easy-going people (I know, hard to tell from some of my posts), and we both have legal backgrounds, although from a different area. Also, I don't want to own the boat all myself... And, I don't want to be a "guest" either. Consider a club. Some have boats all over the country. You will know exactly what your costs are with no surprises. http://www.harboryc.com/ Not sure what you mean. I would imagine there are lots of clubs for boating in the SF area, but neither of us wants to rent, and I've never heard of one that would let you take a boat for an extended time.. e.g., a couple of months or more. -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Larry" wrote in message
... Don White wrote: wrote in message ... My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). -- Nom=de=Plume Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure! I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat. Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run. You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have to consider it's use and how that will be divided. Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the "real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself (and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat out with friends, but I have no problem with that. -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Larry" wrote in message ... Don White wrote: wrote in message ... My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). -- Nom=de=Plume Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure! I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat. Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run. You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have to consider it's use and how that will be divided. It'll probably all be fine until one of the fake partners gets caught dithering another fake partners partner. Then all fake hell will break loose and the fake partnership will go bust, leaving the fake boat to rot at the fake dock and eventually be sold for fake scrap to pay the fake dockage. NG bull**** may not be the finest there is but there sure is plenty of it. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote: Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the "real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself (and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat out with friends, but I have no problem with that. My advice? Be very, very careful. I have seen quite a few boat partnerships over the years and most have ended badly, some very badly with years of legal disputes to unwind and broken friendships. Almost everyone under estimates the total cost of ownership. It can be really staggering at times, and it never stops. You have truly got to love boats, and have quite a bit of disposable income to get serious about owning part of a large boat. No two people ever seem to agree on what expenses are necessary, what maintenance must be done, or what equipment needs to be purchased. Some of those decisions are difficult for one person to make let alone a committee. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the "real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself (and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat out with friends, but I have no problem with that. My advice? Be very, very careful. I have seen quite a few boat partnerships over the years and most have ended badly, some very badly with years of legal disputes to unwind and broken friendships. Almost everyone under estimates the total cost of ownership. It can be really staggering at times, and it never stops. You have truly got to love boats, and have quite a bit of disposable income to get serious about owning part of a large boat. No two people ever seem to agree on what expenses are necessary, what maintenance must be done, or what equipment needs to be purchased. Some of those decisions are difficult for one person to make let alone a committee. Certainly good advice. Thanks. I'm not terribly savvy about "equipment" requirements for long travels. I would defer to Jay. As far as the others go, that's certainly a concern, given them not putting a lot of money up front. I think it would get more tricky if/when they start paying for equipment, which would have to be a group decision. I'm thinking it would be majority rule, so if our friends, say, wanted radar, and we didn't, it would be overruled. I'm willing to usually defer to Jay, so that would mean the only way it could happen against his wishes would be for me to team up with both of the other people. I think that's pretty unlikely, except perhaps when it comes to food or wine color. :) Jay and I would be using our savings both to buy the boat and to be away (mostly) from income-producing situations. The other couple would be spending what they can afford while we're still here, then have a free ride (e.g., food/drink/lodging/fees) for as long as they wanted to travel with us. I know they don't want to commit to more than 2-3 months, and I know we want to commit to a bit longer. Another tricky part is when/if we decided to give up the boat, how (or would) we give them some of their equipment money back. I'm pretty easy about it, depending on how much they really want. None of us are hurting for funds, so it would be more of a what-seems-fair vs. need. I (and Sal) would be in learning mode for sailing and fixing, but Jay and Brian would have to be comfortable with Jay being the skipper. I don't really get seasick... but I've never been off shore for more than a few hours. Sal tends to eat her way out of any unpleasant stomach issues, and Jay/Brian claim to be rock solid. (... another good reason for me/Sal to know what's what, since they're typically full of sh*t) -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"mmc" wrote in message
g.com... "Larry" wrote in message ... Don White wrote: wrote in message ... My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). -- Nom=de=Plume Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure! I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat. Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run. You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have to consider it's use and how that will be divided. It'll probably all be fine until one of the fake partners gets caught dithering another fake partners partner. Then all fake hell will break loose and the fake partnership will go bust, leaving the fake boat to rot at the fake dock and eventually be sold for fake scrap to pay the fake dockage. NG bull**** may not be the finest there is but there sure is plenty of it. Thanks for making me laugh out loud. I'm going to forward it to my friends. -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
... "mmc" wrote in message g.com... "Larry" wrote in message ... Don White wrote: wrote in message ... My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). -- Nom=de=Plume Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure! I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat. Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run. You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have to consider it's use and how that will be divided. It'll probably all be fine until one of the fake partners gets caught dithering another fake partners partner. Then all fake hell will break loose and the fake partnership will go bust, leaving the fake boat to rot at the fake dock and eventually be sold for fake scrap to pay the fake dockage. NG bull**** may not be the finest there is but there sure is plenty of it. Thanks for making me laugh out loud. I'm going to forward it to my friends. -- Nom=de=Plume Correction. I'm going to forward it to my fake friends. -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote: On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason? Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be good. S2 are good and they did make a 36 No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day, Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay a lot and it is newer. Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I don't think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good quality boat seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know what equipment we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's needed. Mason sounds interesting. Are Cals being made? -- Nom=de=Plume A partnership destined to end in hell. Not necessarily because of the partners, but because they do not know what they want or are getting in to. Join one of the San Francisco Bay yacht clubs. There are a bunch, and some are very reasonable. The St. Francis and Corinthian does not do not meet that requirement. The sailors are always looking for a crew. You will need a crew for most large sailboats. My Father in Law was a founding member of the Richmond Yacht Club. Do not know what their costs are. Waiting list for berths, so that does not help. He partnered for a while, but eventually bought out the partner. He sold his Bermuda 32 as being ketch rigged, was not easy to sail single handed. He ended up with an Islander 30 Mk II. Nice boat, good single handed and 25 years ago, there was a large group of I-30 class racers. You have no idea what a large boat requires, so get some education. $200k will buy an extremely nice boat these days. Way more than you even need to sail to The Coral Marina in Ensenada. Or to Hawaii. Sausalito was $400 to berth 50 years ago for a Hurricane 32, do not know what the cost is now. Oakland Estuary has lots of resonable berths. Look at Associates membership. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
On Apr 14, 11:48*pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message .... On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote: On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym I am not sure Valiants are still being made. *How about Mason? Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as IP. *Pearson is about in line with Morgan. *Cal is supposed to be good. S2 are good and they did make a 36 No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day, Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay a lot and it is newer. Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I don't think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good quality boat seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know what equipment we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's needed. Mason sounds interesting. Are Cals being made? -- Nom=de=Plume A partnership destined to end in hell. *Not necessarily because of the partners, but because they do not know what they want or are getting in to. Join one of the San Francisco Bay yacht clubs. *There are a bunch, and some are very reasonable. *The St. Francis and Corinthian does not do not meet that requirement. *The sailors are always looking for a crew. *You will need a crew for most large sailboats. *My Father in Law was a founding member of the Richmond Yacht Club. *Do not know what their costs are. *Waiting list for berths, so that does not help. *He partnered for a while, but eventually bought out the partner. *He sold his Bermuda 32 as being ketch rigged, was not easy to sail single handed. *He ended up with an Islander 30 Mk II. Nice boat, good single handed and 25 years ago, there was a large group of I-30 class racers. *You have no idea what a large boat requires, so get some education. *$200k will buy an extremely nice boat these days. *Way more than you even need to sail to The Coral Marina in Ensenada. *Or to Hawaii. Sausalito was $400 to berth 50 years ago for a Hurricane 32, do not know what the cost is now. *Oakland Estuary has lots of resonable berths. *Look at Associates membership. Wayne is correct, the cost of ownership is really so high that I hide the costs and destroy receipts so neither my wife nor I will know. If I actually sat down and added it up, I'd sink her and walk away. Then you have people who value appearance over safety wanting to spend money on getting the topsides re-painted vs getting those questionable thru-hull fittings replaced. I tend to be the opposite completely devaluing appearance and obsessing over safety. Some will demand the best sails while you think the old saild are still very good. Sailing performance fanatics can bankrupt you thinking they have to have all carbon fiber spars and the best Spectra lines. OTOH, being on a small boat with someone will tell you if the relationship will last. My first date with my wife was on a canoe trip where it rained for 48 hours and the river flooded and we are still married 30 years later. Sailing with her though is an ordeal. For that price, you can get a used F31 trailerable tri so you avoid slip fees and can trailer her back from Mexico. Sure it is spartan inside but you sure go fast. The F31 by Farrier is really a good boat and I think they now make an F32. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote: On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason? Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be good. S2 are good and they did make a 36 No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day, Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay a lot and it is newer. Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I don't think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good quality boat seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know what equipment we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's needed. Mason sounds interesting. Are Cals being made? -- Nom=de=Plume A partnership destined to end in hell. Not necessarily because of the partners, but because they do not know what they want or are getting in to. Join one of the San Francisco Bay yacht clubs. There are a bunch, and some are very reasonable. The St. Francis and Corinthian does not do not meet that requirement. The sailors are always looking for a crew. You will need a crew for most large sailboats. My Father in Law was a founding member of the Richmond Yacht Club. Do not know what their costs are. Waiting list for berths, so that does not help. He partnered for a while, but eventually bought out the partner. He sold his Bermuda 32 as being ketch rigged, was not easy to sail single handed. He ended up with an Islander 30 Mk II. Nice boat, good single handed and 25 years ago, there was a large group of I-30 class racers. You have no idea what a large boat requires, so get some education. $200k will buy an extremely nice boat these days. Way more than you even need to sail to The Coral Marina in Ensenada. Or to Hawaii. Sausalito was $400 to berth 50 years ago for a Hurricane 32, do not know what the cost is now. Oakland Estuary has lots of resonable berths. Look at Associates membership. Bill, thanks for the comments. We're well aware of the costs of ownership (as much as anyone can). Jay's owned several boats, as have the others, so they have a pretty firm idea of the costs. That's why we're looking at newer vs. older. That's the least of our concern at this point. We've been talking about this and the others especially have been doing much research. I do like the idea of more than one hull... from my Hobie days... I'm sure they're more stable than my Hobie, esp. the bigger ones. We've only talked about catamarans, but I'd think that the same slip issues come up with three hulls. We don't really want to haul a boat around, and I for sure don't want to do any serious driving with one in tow in Mexico. I know it might be overblown, but I just don't think it's safe any more. We both think that the partnership is the biggest part of the deal, certainly. Everyone, literally, has said to beware. It's absolutely something to think about, and we've had the "talk" about it more than a dozen times. Probably, we'll do that quite a bit more. I think we both think the relationship is pretty solid at this point (about five years). He even gets along with my ex., which is fairly amazing, since hardly anyone does that. Definitely no way we could afford the St. Francis or (I suppose the Corinthian - don't know much about it). We're not much into "joining" anyway. I don't really see the advantage of joining a club, except perhaps for the social aspect, but since I'm living a fair distance from the bay, it wouldn't really make much sense. If I go down there, it's either business or pleasure.. not to sit and talk to relative strangers (get enough of that here!). As to cost of the boat, the good news is that brokers (and the general selling public) are getting pushed to lower prices, so we'll potentially save lots of money. I'm still thinking $300K is the sweet spot (financially vs. quality of boat). That's one reason why we're going to the sail show... see what's going on, etc. Apparently, there are used boats for sale at it this year. No, we're not buying this week. :) Oakland is possibility if we get desperate for space. It would be a slight hassle for Jay/Sal/Brian... doesn't matter for me. -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
... On Apr 14, 11:48 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote: "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote: On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason? Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be good. S2 are good and they did make a 36 No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day, Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay a lot and it is newer. Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I don't think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good quality boat seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know what equipment we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's needed. Mason sounds interesting. Are Cals being made? -- Nom=de=Plume A partnership destined to end in hell. Not necessarily because of the partners, but because they do not know what they want or are getting in to. Join one of the San Francisco Bay yacht clubs. There are a bunch, and some are very reasonable. The St. Francis and Corinthian does not do not meet that requirement. The sailors are always looking for a crew. You will need a crew for most large sailboats. My Father in Law was a founding member of the Richmond Yacht Club. Do not know what their costs are. Waiting list for berths, so that does not help. He partnered for a while, but eventually bought out the partner. He sold his Bermuda 32 as being ketch rigged, was not easy to sail single handed. He ended up with an Islander 30 Mk II. Nice boat, good single handed and 25 years ago, there was a large group of I-30 class racers. You have no idea what a large boat requires, so get some education. $200k will buy an extremely nice boat these days. Way more than you even need to sail to The Coral Marina in Ensenada. Or to Hawaii. Sausalito was $400 to berth 50 years ago for a Hurricane 32, do not know what the cost is now. Oakland Estuary has lots of resonable berths. Look at Associates membership. Wayne is correct, the cost of ownership is really so high that I hide the costs and destroy receipts so neither my wife nor I will know. If I actually sat down and added it up, I'd sink her and walk away. Then you have people who value appearance over safety wanting to spend money on getting the topsides re-painted vs getting those questionable thru-hull fittings replaced. I tend to be the opposite completely devaluing appearance and obsessing over safety. Some will demand the best sails while you think the old saild are still very good. Sailing performance fanatics can bankrupt you thinking they have to have all carbon fiber spars and the best Spectra lines. OTOH, being on a small boat with someone will tell you if the relationship will last. My first date with my wife was on a canoe trip where it rained for 48 hours and the river flooded and we are still married 30 years later. Sailing with her though is an ordeal. For that price, you can get a used F31 trailerable tri so you avoid slip fees and can trailer her back from Mexico. Sure it is spartan inside but you sure go fast. The F31 by Farrier is really a good boat and I think they now make an F32. Reply: That's funny. I'm sure you don't actually hide the costs/burn the receipts. Interesting points about priorities... thanks. I think I'm more in space of it looking good vs. what's actually needed, but the boys rule on seaworthy qualities. Perhaps we should live about my other friend's boat in Santa Cruz for a week. It's tiny in comparison to what we're looking into for ourselves. Also, SC is a nice place to visit. I guess I was replying to your email about the multiple hulls, not Bill's... read them both before I replied. -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote: You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have to consider it's use and how that will be divided. Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the "real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself (and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat out with friends, but I have no problem with that. Here's a thought for what it's worth. Before investing a lot of money in a partnership that may or may not work out (odds are against), all four of you should charter a boat somewhere for a week or two and see how it goes. It is amazing how fast personality and other issues reveal themselves in the close quarters of living aboard a boat. You will also learn something about what boat features and equipment are important to you. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
On Apr 15, 2:33*am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 14, 11:48 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote: "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message .... On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote: On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat.... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason? Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be good. S2 are good and they did make a 36 No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day, Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay a lot and it is newer. Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I don't think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good quality boat seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know what equipment we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's needed. Mason sounds interesting. Are Cals being made? -- Nom=de=Plume A partnership destined to end in hell. Not necessarily because of the partners, but because they do not know what they want or are getting in to. Join one of the San Francisco Bay yacht clubs. There are a bunch, and some are very reasonable. The St. Francis and Corinthian does not do not meet that requirement. The sailors are always looking for a crew. You will need a crew for most large sailboats. My Father in Law was a founding member of the Richmond Yacht Club. Do not know what their costs are. Waiting list for berths, so that does not help. He partnered for a while, but eventually bought out the partner. He sold his Bermuda 32 as being ketch rigged, was not easy to sail single handed. He ended up with an Islander 30 Mk II. Nice boat, good single handed and 25 years ago, there was a large group of I-30 class racers. You have no idea what a large boat requires, so get some education. $200k will buy an extremely nice boat these days. Way more than you even need to sail to The Coral Marina in Ensenada. Or to Hawaii. Sausalito was $400 to berth 50 years ago for a Hurricane 32, do not know what the cost is now. Oakland Estuary has lots of resonable berths. Look at Associates membership. Wayne is correct, the cost of ownership is really so high that I hide the costs and destroy receipts so neither my wife nor I will know. *If I actually sat down and added it up, I'd sink her and walk away. *Then you have people who value appearance over safety wanting to spend money on getting the topsides re-painted vs getting those questionable thru-hull fittings replaced. *I tend to be the opposite completely devaluing appearance and obsessing over safety. *Some will demand the best sails while you think the old saild are still *very good. Sailing performance fanatics can bankrupt you thinking they have to have all carbon fiber spars and the best Spectra lines. OTOH, being on a small boat with someone will tell you if the relationship will last. *My first date with my wife was on a canoe trip where it rained for 48 hours and the river flooded and we are still married 30 years later. *Sailing with her though is an ordeal. For that price, you can get a used F31 trailerable tri so you avoid slip fees and can trailer her back from Mexico. *Sure it is spartan inside but you sure go fast. *The F31 by Farrier is really a good boat and I think they now make an F32. Reply: That's funny. I'm sure you don't actually hide the costs/burn the receipts. Interesting points about priorities... thanks. I think I'm more in space of it looking good vs. what's actually needed, but the boys rule on seaworthy qualities. Perhaps we should live about my other friend's boat in Santa Cruz for a week. It's tiny in comparison to what we're looking into for ourselves. Also, SC is a nice place to visit. I guess I was replying to your email about the multiple hulls, not Bill's... read them both before I replied. -- Nom=de=Plume Nom: I sail cheap and so does my wife. Both of us are truly into spartan adventures that most would find unacceptable. Nevertheless, If I add up what I spend on sailing each year (my boat was long ago paid for), we could afford to charter a well outfitted boat anywhere in the world including air fare for two weeks. For far less money than this trip from NW Florida to SE Florida to try to get to the Bahamas has cost me, I could charter a luxury vessel in the Bahamas and not have to worry about the vessel. So, give careful consideration to how you will actually use the boat before you buy. Many people read Cruising World , etc and fall in love with the image of the lifestyle without realizing the downsides. Do you really want to lie awake at night worrying that your anchor may drag? Are you or your partner really up to the gawdawful mess marine toilets are to fix? It really IS NOT about having a cocktail in the cockpit watching the sun go down, cruising is mostly either hard or boring as hell. Having said all that, I do not know why I am so obsessed with going places in my own boat except I trust MY boat that I have custom outfitted my way. I do not know why other people like to spend time offshore because it is either boring or scary. My reason is that I find navigation to be a sorta mystical masculine affirmation of the power of the mind over reality, yes, it is a geek thing. Maybe other people are just masochists. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 15, 2:33 am, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 14, 11:48 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote: "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote: On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason? Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be good. S2 are good and they did make a 36 No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day, Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay a lot and it is newer. Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I don't think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good quality boat seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know what equipment we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's needed. Mason sounds interesting. Are Cals being made? -- Nom=de=Plume A partnership destined to end in hell. Not necessarily because of the partners, but because they do not know what they want or are getting in to. Join one of the San Francisco Bay yacht clubs. There are a bunch, and some are very reasonable. The St. Francis and Corinthian does not do not meet that requirement. The sailors are always looking for a crew. You will need a crew for most large sailboats. My Father in Law was a founding member of the Richmond Yacht Club. Do not know what their costs are. Waiting list for berths, so that does not help. He partnered for a while, but eventually bought out the partner. He sold his Bermuda 32 as being ketch rigged, was not easy to sail single handed. He ended up with an Islander 30 Mk II. Nice boat, good single handed and 25 years ago, there was a large group of I-30 class racers. You have no idea what a large boat requires, so get some education. $200k will buy an extremely nice boat these days. Way more than you even need to sail to The Coral Marina in Ensenada. Or to Hawaii. Sausalito was $400 to berth 50 years ago for a Hurricane 32, do not know what the cost is now. Oakland Estuary has lots of resonable berths. Look at Associates membership. Wayne is correct, the cost of ownership is really so high that I hide the costs and destroy receipts so neither my wife nor I will know. If I actually sat down and added it up, I'd sink her and walk away. Then you have people who value appearance over safety wanting to spend money on getting the topsides re-painted vs getting those questionable thru-hull fittings replaced. I tend to be the opposite completely devaluing appearance and obsessing over safety. Some will demand the best sails while you think the old saild are still very good. Sailing performance fanatics can bankrupt you thinking they have to have all carbon fiber spars and the best Spectra lines. OTOH, being on a small boat with someone will tell you if the relationship will last. My first date with my wife was on a canoe trip where it rained for 48 hours and the river flooded and we are still married 30 years later. Sailing with her though is an ordeal. For that price, you can get a used F31 trailerable tri so you avoid slip fees and can trailer her back from Mexico. Sure it is spartan inside but you sure go fast. The F31 by Farrier is really a good boat and I think they now make an F32. Reply: That's funny. I'm sure you don't actually hide the costs/burn the receipts. Interesting points about priorities... thanks. I think I'm more in space of it looking good vs. what's actually needed, but the boys rule on seaworthy qualities. Perhaps we should live about my other friend's boat in Santa Cruz for a week. It's tiny in comparison to what we're looking into for ourselves. Also, SC is a nice place to visit. I guess I was replying to your email about the multiple hulls, not Bill's... read them both before I replied. -- Nom=de=Plume Nom: I sail cheap and so does my wife. Both of us are truly into spartan adventures that most would find unacceptable. Nevertheless, If I add up what I spend on sailing each year (my boat was long ago paid for), we could afford to charter a well outfitted boat anywhere in the world including air fare for two weeks. For far less money than this trip from NW Florida to SE Florida to try to get to the Bahamas has cost me, I could charter a luxury vessel in the Bahamas and not have to worry about the vessel. So, give careful consideration to how you will actually use the boat before you buy. Many people read Cruising World , etc and fall in love with the image of the lifestyle without realizing the downsides. Do you really want to lie awake at night worrying that your anchor may drag? Are you or your partner really up to the gawdawful mess marine toilets are to fix? It really IS NOT about having a cocktail in the cockpit watching the sun go down, cruising is mostly either hard or boring as hell. Having said all that, I do not know why I am so obsessed with going places in my own boat except I trust MY boat that I have custom outfitted my way. I do not know why other people like to spend time offshore because it is either boring or scary. My reason is that I find navigation to be a sorta mystical masculine affirmation of the power of the mind over reality, yes, it is a geek thing. Maybe other people are just masochists. She needs to look at something she can sail solo after the "bouys" jump overboard. Hinkley is a decent sailboat. Some of the older ones have decent price tags on them. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have to consider it's use and how that will be divided. Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the "real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself (and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat out with friends, but I have no problem with that. Here's a thought for what it's worth. Before investing a lot of money in a partnership that may or may not work out (odds are against), all four of you should charter a boat somewhere for a week or two and see how it goes. It is amazing how fast personality and other issues reveal themselves in the close quarters of living aboard a boat. You will also learn something about what boat features and equipment are important to you. Good idea. I recommend Roadtown, Tortola in the BVI. I have a contact there that will be helpful to her. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
... On Apr 15, 2:33 am, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 14, 11:48 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote: "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote: On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason? Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be good. S2 are good and they did make a 36 No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day, Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay a lot and it is newer. Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I don't think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good quality boat seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know what equipment we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's needed. Mason sounds interesting. Are Cals being made? -- Nom=de=Plume A partnership destined to end in hell. Not necessarily because of the partners, but because they do not know what they want or are getting in to. Join one of the San Francisco Bay yacht clubs. There are a bunch, and some are very reasonable. The St. Francis and Corinthian does not do not meet that requirement. The sailors are always looking for a crew. You will need a crew for most large sailboats. My Father in Law was a founding member of the Richmond Yacht Club. Do not know what their costs are. Waiting list for berths, so that does not help. He partnered for a while, but eventually bought out the partner. He sold his Bermuda 32 as being ketch rigged, was not easy to sail single handed. He ended up with an Islander 30 Mk II. Nice boat, good single handed and 25 years ago, there was a large group of I-30 class racers. You have no idea what a large boat requires, so get some education. $200k will buy an extremely nice boat these days. Way more than you even need to sail to The Coral Marina in Ensenada. Or to Hawaii. Sausalito was $400 to berth 50 years ago for a Hurricane 32, do not know what the cost is now. Oakland Estuary has lots of resonable berths. Look at Associates membership. Wayne is correct, the cost of ownership is really so high that I hide the costs and destroy receipts so neither my wife nor I will know. If I actually sat down and added it up, I'd sink her and walk away. Then you have people who value appearance over safety wanting to spend money on getting the topsides re-painted vs getting those questionable thru-hull fittings replaced. I tend to be the opposite completely devaluing appearance and obsessing over safety. Some will demand the best sails while you think the old saild are still very good. Sailing performance fanatics can bankrupt you thinking they have to have all carbon fiber spars and the best Spectra lines. OTOH, being on a small boat with someone will tell you if the relationship will last. My first date with my wife was on a canoe trip where it rained for 48 hours and the river flooded and we are still married 30 years later. Sailing with her though is an ordeal. For that price, you can get a used F31 trailerable tri so you avoid slip fees and can trailer her back from Mexico. Sure it is spartan inside but you sure go fast. The F31 by Farrier is really a good boat and I think they now make an F32. Reply: That's funny. I'm sure you don't actually hide the costs/burn the receipts. Interesting points about priorities... thanks. I think I'm more in space of it looking good vs. what's actually needed, but the boys rule on seaworthy qualities. Perhaps we should live about my other friend's boat in Santa Cruz for a week. It's tiny in comparison to what we're looking into for ourselves. Also, SC is a nice place to visit. I guess I was replying to your email about the multiple hulls, not Bill's... read them both before I replied. -- Nom=de=Plume Nom: Em :) I sail cheap and so does my wife. Both of us are truly into spartan adventures that most would find unacceptable. Nevertheless, If I add up what I spend on sailing each year (my boat was long ago paid for), we could afford to charter a well outfitted boat anywhere in the world including air fare for two weeks. For far less money than this trip from NW Florida to SE Florida to try to get to the Bahamas has cost me, I could charter a luxury vessel in the Bahamas and not have to worry about the vessel. Nothing wrong with travelling on the cheap... From the research we've done for outside of the US travel, that would be the norm for the four of us, and it's what we're planning on. If we're in New York, that's a different story, but my idea of an ideal vacation is not being around other people... just hanging with some close friends, getting fish from the local place, swimming, and exploring interesting places. I'm not sure any of us want overly spartan (stone knives and bareskins), but unless we're going in to dinner somewhere once in a while, it would mostly be relaxed attire and chilling. So, give careful consideration to how you will actually use the boat before you buy. Many people read Cruising World , etc and fall in love with the image of the lifestyle without realizing the downsides. Do you really want to lie awake at night worrying that your anchor may drag? Are you or your partner really up to the gawdawful mess marine toilets are to fix? It really IS NOT about having a cocktail in the cockpit watching the sun go down, cruising is mostly either hard or boring as hell. Interesting perspective. I think it's probably a combination. There must be times when all the hard work (which I'm sure there's plenty as you say) seems worth it. We've talked to a few people who did the Baja Ha Ha and then the Pacific Puddle Jump (as they call going across), and there was definitely a sense that they had experience what you're talking about. But, they also did mention the sundowners and local fauna/flora as special times. Seems like boat competence is a big part of the experience (making it good or bad) and one's attitude toward "problems." Having said all that, I do not know why I am so obsessed with going places in my own boat except I trust MY boat that I have custom outfitted my way. I do not know why other people like to spend time offshore because it is either boring or scary. My reason is that I find navigation to be a sorta mystical masculine affirmation of the power of the mind over reality, yes, it is a geek thing. Maybe other people are just masochists. I think you said it in the first sentence. You have faith in your boat and how you've outfitted, and your ability to solve problems (I'm surmising this). Re the offshore... a few have said "there were boring stretches" but they also said there was more stuff going on offshore than they imagined. A few said they had some scary moments, but felt that they were probably going to be ok, because of the same conclusions you state... trust in self and boat. I know that my friends Sal/Brian have had minimal friction between them during some trying "adventures" while travelling (they've done a few cruising trips). Jay and I seem pretty compatible and we don't screech at each other (prime example was when I got stuck on the road and he drove about 3 hours to come help). The navigation stuff sounds like fun actually. It's probably the geek in me also. That's one thing I need to get my head around, as I have zero knowledge about this except for the rudimentary (D=S x T) and some Set and Drift stuff (mostly Brian pushing me to figure it out on my own). -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"anon-e-moose" wrote in message
... Frogwatch wrote: On Apr 15, 2:33 am, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 14, 11:48 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote: "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Frogwatch" wrote in message ... On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote: On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat... he's talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted. My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier to have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying American if possible. Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and time equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher. We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue. So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get). The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera. --http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason? Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be good. S2 are good and they did make a 36 No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day, Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay a lot and it is newer. Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I don't think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good quality boat seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know what equipment we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's needed. Mason sounds interesting. Are Cals being made? -- Nom=de=Plume A partnership destined to end in hell. Not necessarily because of the partners, but because they do not know what they want or are getting in to. Join one of the San Francisco Bay yacht clubs. There are a bunch, and some are very reasonable. The St. Francis and Corinthian does not do not meet that requirement. The sailors are always looking for a crew. You will need a crew for most large sailboats. My Father in Law was a founding member of the Richmond Yacht Club. Do not know what their costs are. Waiting list for berths, so that does not help. He partnered for a while, but eventually bought out the partner. He sold his Bermuda 32 as being ketch rigged, was not easy to sail single handed. He ended up with an Islander 30 Mk II. Nice boat, good single handed and 25 years ago, there was a large group of I-30 class racers. You have no idea what a large boat requires, so get some education. $200k will buy an extremely nice boat these days. Way more than you even need to sail to The Coral Marina in Ensenada. Or to Hawaii. Sausalito was $400 to berth 50 years ago for a Hurricane 32, do not know what the cost is now. Oakland Estuary has lots of resonable berths. Look at Associates membership. Wayne is correct, the cost of ownership is really so high that I hide the costs and destroy receipts so neither my wife nor I will know. If I actually sat down and added it up, I'd sink her and walk away. Then you have people who value appearance over safety wanting to spend money on getting the topsides re-painted vs getting those questionable thru-hull fittings replaced. I tend to be the opposite completely devaluing appearance and obsessing over safety. Some will demand the best sails while you think the old saild are still very good. Sailing performance fanatics can bankrupt you thinking they have to have all carbon fiber spars and the best Spectra lines. OTOH, being on a small boat with someone will tell you if the relationship will last. My first date with my wife was on a canoe trip where it rained for 48 hours and the river flooded and we are still married 30 years later. Sailing with her though is an ordeal. For that price, you can get a used F31 trailerable tri so you avoid slip fees and can trailer her back from Mexico. Sure it is spartan inside but you sure go fast. The F31 by Farrier is really a good boat and I think they now make an F32. Reply: That's funny. I'm sure you don't actually hide the costs/burn the receipts. Interesting points about priorities... thanks. I think I'm more in space of it looking good vs. what's actually needed, but the boys rule on seaworthy qualities. Perhaps we should live about my other friend's boat in Santa Cruz for a week. It's tiny in comparison to what we're looking into for ourselves. Also, SC is a nice place to visit. I guess I was replying to your email about the multiple hulls, not Bill's... read them both before I replied. -- Nom=de=Plume Nom: I sail cheap and so does my wife. Both of us are truly into spartan adventures that most would find unacceptable. Nevertheless, If I add up what I spend on sailing each year (my boat was long ago paid for), we could afford to charter a well outfitted boat anywhere in the world including air fare for two weeks. For far less money than this trip from NW Florida to SE Florida to try to get to the Bahamas has cost me, I could charter a luxury vessel in the Bahamas and not have to worry about the vessel. So, give careful consideration to how you will actually use the boat before you buy. Many people read Cruising World , etc and fall in love with the image of the lifestyle without realizing the downsides. Do you really want to lie awake at night worrying that your anchor may drag? Are you or your partner really up to the gawdawful mess marine toilets are to fix? It really IS NOT about having a cocktail in the cockpit watching the sun go down, cruising is mostly either hard or boring as hell. Having said all that, I do not know why I am so obsessed with going places in my own boat except I trust MY boat that I have custom outfitted my way. I do not know why other people like to spend time offshore because it is either boring or scary. My reason is that I find navigation to be a sorta mystical masculine affirmation of the power of the mind over reality, yes, it is a geek thing. Maybe other people are just masochists. She needs to look at something she can sail solo after the "bouys" jump overboard. Hinkley is a decent sailboat. Some of the older ones have decent price tags on them. I believe it's spelled buoys. Not interested in "older ones." You would know that if you could actually read. -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
On Apr 15, 1:32*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
Nothing wrong with travelling on the cheap... I know, I've done it for years. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have to consider it's use and how that will be divided. Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the "real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself (and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat out with friends, but I have no problem with that. Here's a thought for what it's worth. Before investing a lot of money in a partnership that may or may not work out (odds are against), all four of you should charter a boat somewhere for a week or two and see how it goes. It is amazing how fast personality and other issues reveal themselves in the close quarters of living aboard a boat. You will also learn something about what boat features and equipment are important to you. We've been rough packing/camping several times for almost a week with no problems, but I do like that idea. I've suggested that we rent a boat on the bay for a three-day weekend to see how we (I) deal with colder weather. We've talked about renting a boat in Mexico (Baja), since that's where we would go as a first stop. Give the weather patterns, I would think late in the year for that area. -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Don White" wrote in message
... "Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have to consider it's use and how that will be divided. Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the "real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself (and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat out with friends, but I have no problem with that. Here's a thought for what it's worth. Before investing a lot of money in a partnership that may or may not work out (odds are against), all four of you should charter a boat somewhere for a week or two and see how it goes. It is amazing how fast personality and other issues reveal themselves in the close quarters of living aboard a boat. You will also learn something about what boat features and equipment are important to you. Good idea. I recommend Roadtown, Tortola in the BVI. I have a contact there that will be helpful to her. Hmm... sounds nice. It's kind of a long haul from the left coast (I dislike long plane flights). We were thinking Baja or the San Juans. -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
"Tim" wrote in message
... On Apr 15, 1:32 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote: Nothing wrong with travelling on the cheap... I know, I've done it for years. Really? Where to? -- Nom=de=Plume |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
On Apr 15, 1:45*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Tim" wrote in message ... On Apr 15, 1:32 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote: Nothing wrong with travelling on the cheap... I know, I've done it for years. Really? Where to? -- Nom=de=Plume Hich hiked across the nation a couple times in my younger for starts.Oh yes, I confess to hopping a train a few times in that same time era too! Glad I had the experience, but wouldn't do it again. But in recent. traveling to see my sister and not needing a giant motor home or camper, but getting a Motel 6 occasionally., Flying is more convenient and in some cases more economical , but I don't like renting a car upon arrival. |
going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
wrote in message ... On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:33:05 -0700, "nom=de=plume" wrote: Perhaps we should live about my other friend's boat in Santa Cruz for a week. It's tiny in comparison to what we're looking into for ourselves. Also, SC is a nice place to visit. ... just bring a coat http://gfretwell.com/ftp/california/...nta%20Cruz.jpg You should see it on a bad day. :) |
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