going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
nom=de=plume wrote:
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat...
he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been
talking about is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range,
berthing it on the bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a
suitable place), and then taking it down to Mexico a year from next
October (which is the supposed "weather window" for travelling south).
The approximate cost for each of us would be in the $150K to $200K
range,
perhaps some wiggle room, depending upon how new the boat would be and
what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier
to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and
time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience
goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes
with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how
we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else
a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in
sailing classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest
boat than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



I hear that... we've had lots of talks about what would happen if..... it
would all have to be in writing of course. We're pretty easy-going people
(I
know, hard to tell from some of my posts), and we both have legal
backgrounds, although from a different area. Also, I don't want to own
the
boat all myself... And, I don't want to be a "guest" either.


Consider a club. Some have boats all over the country. You will know
exactly what your costs are with no surprises.

http://www.harboryc.com/



Not sure what you mean. I would imagine there are lots of clubs for boating
in the SF area, but neither of us wants to rent, and I've never heard of one
that would let you take a boat for an extended time.. e.g., a couple of
months or more.

--
Nom=de=Plume

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat...
he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly
a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking
about
is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on
the
bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and
then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the
supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost
for
each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle
room,
depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get
retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier
to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and
time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience
goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes
with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how
we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else
a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in
sailing
classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest
boat
than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships
that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all
know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have
to consider it's use and how that will be divided.


Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the
"real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at
least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself
(and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat out
with friends, but I have no problem with that.

--
Nom=de=Plume

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat...
he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly
a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking
about
is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on
the
bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and
then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the
supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost
for
each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle
room,
depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get
retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier
to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and
time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience
goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes
with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how
we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else
a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in
sailing
classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest
boat
than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships
that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all
know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have
to consider it's use and how that will be divided.

It'll probably all be fine until one of the fake partners gets caught
dithering another fake partners partner. Then all fake hell will break loose
and the fake partnership will go bust, leaving the fake boat to rot at the
fake dock and eventually be sold for fake scrap to pay the fake dockage.
NG bull**** may not be the finest there is but there sure is plenty of it.

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the
"real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at
least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself
(and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat out
with friends, but I have no problem with that.

My advice? Be very, very careful. I have seen quite a few boat
partnerships over the years and most have ended badly, some very badly
with years of legal disputes to unwind and broken friendships.

Almost everyone under estimates the total cost of ownership. It can
be really staggering at times, and it never stops. You have truly
got to love boats, and have quite a bit of disposable income to get
serious about owning part of a large boat. No two people ever seem to
agree on what expenses are necessary, what maintenance must be done,
or what equipment needs to be purchased. Some of those decisions are
difficult for one person to make let alone a committee.

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:41:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Well, that certainly seems right. It would only be the two of us in the
"real" partnership. And, even that would be pretty well spelled out, at
least as far as money goes. I can't imagine wanting to sail it by myself
(and I doubt he's interested in that). I suppose he could take the boat
out
with friends, but I have no problem with that.

My advice? Be very, very careful. I have seen quite a few boat
partnerships over the years and most have ended badly, some very badly
with years of legal disputes to unwind and broken friendships.

Almost everyone under estimates the total cost of ownership. It can
be really staggering at times, and it never stops. You have truly
got to love boats, and have quite a bit of disposable income to get
serious about owning part of a large boat. No two people ever seem to
agree on what expenses are necessary, what maintenance must be done,
or what equipment needs to be purchased. Some of those decisions are
difficult for one person to make let alone a committee.


Certainly good advice. Thanks. I'm not terribly savvy about "equipment"
requirements for long travels. I would defer to Jay. As far as the others
go, that's certainly a concern, given them not putting a lot of money up
front. I think it would get more tricky if/when they start paying for
equipment, which would have to be a group decision. I'm thinking it would be
majority rule, so if our friends, say, wanted radar, and we didn't, it would
be overruled. I'm willing to usually defer to Jay, so that would mean the
only way it could happen against his wishes would be for me to team up with
both of the other people. I think that's pretty unlikely, except perhaps
when it comes to food or wine color. :)

Jay and I would be using our savings both to buy the boat and to be away
(mostly) from income-producing situations. The other couple would be
spending what they can afford while we're still here, then have a free ride
(e.g., food/drink/lodging/fees) for as long as they wanted to travel with
us. I know they don't want to commit to more than 2-3 months, and I know we
want to commit to a bit longer. Another tricky part is when/if we decided to
give up the boat, how (or would) we give them some of their equipment money
back. I'm pretty easy about it, depending on how much they really want. None
of us are hurting for funds, so it would be more of a what-seems-fair vs.
need. I (and Sal) would be in learning mode for sailing and fixing, but Jay
and Brian would have to be comfortable with Jay being the skipper.

I don't really get seasick... but I've never been off shore for more than a
few hours. Sal tends to eat her way out of any unpleasant stomach issues,
and Jay/Brian claim to be rock solid. (... another good reason for me/Sal to
know what's what, since they're typically full of sh*t)

--
Nom=de=Plume

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"mmc" wrote in message
g.com...

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat...
he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly
a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking
about
is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on
the
bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and
then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the
supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost
for
each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle
room,
depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get
retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier
to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and
time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience
goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes
with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how
we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else
a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in
sailing
classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest
boat
than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships
that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all
know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have
to consider it's use and how that will be divided.

It'll probably all be fine until one of the fake partners gets caught
dithering another fake partners partner. Then all fake hell will break
loose and the fake partnership will go bust, leaving the fake boat to rot
at the fake dock and eventually be sold for fake scrap to pay the fake
dockage.
NG bull**** may not be the finest there is but there sure is plenty of it.

Thanks for making me laugh out loud. I'm going to forward it to my friends.

--
Nom=de=Plume

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"mmc" wrote in message
g.com...

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Don White wrote:
wrote in message
...

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat...
he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly
a Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking
about
is getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on
the
bay (probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and
then taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the
supposed "weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost
for
each of us would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle
room,
depending upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get
retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier
to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and
time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico. I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience
goes...
just the Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes
with
Sal, because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so
we'd
have a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how
we
sail together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts).
The
guys are best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting. I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but
apparently they're not quite up to the same quality standards. Is
there
another US-built make in the same class as the IP or Val? Anything
else a
relative novice should consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship
stuff (we're all pretty compatible... travelled with each other
lots...
and we're all pretty independent). My main concern is can I pull my
own
weight on the boat, but I guess most of that can be figured out in
sailing
classes and sailing on whatever we get).

--
Nom=de=Plume

Being a part owner of a boat...... not so sure!
I've had opportunities in the past, but would much rather own a modest
boat
than half or a quarter of a nicer boat.
Less chance of differences of opinion, etc in the long run.



You got that right. There are hundreds of stories of boat partnerships
that have gone bad. The expenses don't end with the purchase as we all
know. There's insurance, mooring fees, maintenance, etc. Then you have
to consider it's use and how that will be divided.

It'll probably all be fine until one of the fake partners gets caught
dithering another fake partners partner. Then all fake hell will break
loose and the fake partnership will go bust, leaving the fake boat to rot
at the fake dock and eventually be sold for fake scrap to pay the fake
dockage.
NG bull**** may not be the finest there is but there sure is plenty of
it.

Thanks for making me laugh out loud. I'm going to forward it to my
friends.

--
Nom=de=Plume



Correction. I'm going to forward it to my fake friends.

--
Nom=de=Plume

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote:
On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:



My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat...
he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly a
Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about
is
getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the
bay
(probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then
taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the
supposed
"weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each
of us
would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room,
depending
upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier
to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American
if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and
time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico.
I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just
the
Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal,
because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have
a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we
sail
together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys
are
best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting.
I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're
not
quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make
in
the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should
consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty
compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty
independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat,
but I
guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on
whatever we get).

The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera.

--http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason?
Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as
IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be
good. S2 are good and they did make a 36
No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day,
Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay
a lot and it is newer.


Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I don't
think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good quality boat
seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know what
equipment we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's
needed. Mason sounds interesting. Are Cals being made?
--
Nom=de=Plume


A partnership destined to end in hell. Not necessarily because of the
partners, but because they do not know what they want or are getting in to.
Join one of the San Francisco Bay yacht clubs. There are a bunch, and some
are very reasonable. The St. Francis and Corinthian does not do not meet
that requirement. The sailors are always looking for a crew. You will need
a crew for most large sailboats. My Father in Law was a founding member of
the Richmond Yacht Club. Do not know what their costs are. Waiting list
for berths, so that does not help. He partnered for a while, but eventually
bought out the partner. He sold his Bermuda 32 as being ketch rigged, was
not easy to sail single handed. He ended up with an Islander 30 Mk II.
Nice boat, good single handed and 25 years ago, there was a large group of
I-30 class racers. You have no idea what a large boat requires, so get some
education. $200k will buy an extremely nice boat these days. Way more than
you even need to sail to The Coral Marina in Ensenada. Or to Hawaii.
Sausalito was $400 to berth 50 years ago for a Hurricane 32, do not know
what the cost is now. Oakland Estuary has lots of resonable berths. Look
at Associates membership.

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

On Apr 14, 11:48*pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message

...



"Frogwatch" wrote in message
....
On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote:
On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:

My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat...
he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly a
Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking about
is
getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the
bay
(probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and then
taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the
supposed
"weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each
of us
would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room,
depending
upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier
to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American
if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and
time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico.
I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just
the
Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal,
because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so we'd
have
a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we
sail
together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The guys
are
best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting.
I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently they're
not
quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make
in
the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice should
consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty
compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty
independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat,
but I
guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing on
whatever we get).

The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera.

--http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I am not sure Valiants are still being made. *How about Mason?
Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as
IP. *Pearson is about in line with Morgan. *Cal is supposed to be
good. S2 are good and they did make a 36
No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day,
Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay
a lot and it is newer.

Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I don't
think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good quality boat
seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know what
equipment we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's
needed. Mason sounds interesting. Are Cals being made?
--
Nom=de=Plume

A partnership destined to end in hell. *Not necessarily because of the
partners, but because they do not know what they want or are getting in to.
Join one of the San Francisco Bay yacht clubs. *There are a bunch, and some
are very reasonable. *The St. Francis and Corinthian does not do not meet
that requirement. *The sailors are always looking for a crew. *You will need
a crew for most large sailboats. *My Father in Law was a founding member of
the Richmond Yacht Club. *Do not know what their costs are. *Waiting list
for berths, so that does not help. *He partnered for a while, but eventually
bought out the partner. *He sold his Bermuda 32 as being ketch rigged, was
not easy to sail single handed. *He ended up with an Islander 30 Mk II.
Nice boat, good single handed and 25 years ago, there was a large group of
I-30 class racers. *You have no idea what a large boat requires, so get some
education. *$200k will buy an extremely nice boat these days. *Way more than
you even need to sail to The Coral Marina in Ensenada. *Or to Hawaii.
Sausalito was $400 to berth 50 years ago for a Hurricane 32, do not know
what the cost is now. *Oakland Estuary has lots of resonable berths. *Look
at Associates membership.

Wayne is correct, the cost of ownership is really so high that I hide
the costs and destroy receipts so neither my wife nor I will know. If
I actually sat down and added it up, I'd sink her and walk away. Then
you have people who value appearance over safety wanting to spend
money on getting the topsides re-painted vs getting those questionable
thru-hull fittings replaced. I tend to be the opposite completely
devaluing appearance and obsessing over safety. Some will demand the
best sails while you think the old saild are still very good.
Sailing performance fanatics can bankrupt you thinking they have to
have all carbon fiber spars and the best Spectra lines.
OTOH, being on a small boat with someone will tell you if the
relationship will last. My first date with my wife was on a canoe
trip where it rained for 48 hours and the river flooded and we are
still married 30 years later. Sailing with her though is an ordeal.
For that price, you can get a used F31 trailerable tri so you avoid
slip fees and can trailer her back from Mexico. Sure it is spartan
inside but you sure go fast. The F31 by Farrier is really a good boat
and I think they now make an F32.

going to Strictly Sail in Oakland
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 14, 3:36 pm, hk wrote:
On 4/14/10 3:25 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:



My friend is trying to convince me to go halfs with him on a boat...
he's
talking about either an Island Packet, which I've seen before, or
possibly a
Valiant, which I haven't seen. The "plan" that we've been talking
about is
getting something in the mid- to low-40 foot range, berthing it on the
bay
(probably Sausalito, assuming we could find a suitable place), and
then
taking it down to Mexico a year from next October (which is the
supposed
"weather window" for travelling south). The approximate cost for each
of us
would be in the $150K to $200K range, perhaps some wiggle room,
depending
upon how new the boat would be and what needs to get retrofitted.

My friend wants to get something made in the US... I guess it's easier
to
have it Federally registered. And, we both like the idea of buying
American
if possible.

Right now, there's another couple that would be putting in sweat and
time
equity (but limited cash), so that would give us a crew of four for
Mexico.
I'm probably the most junior as far as sailing experience goes... just
the
Hobie 18 in my distant past. I'd probably take some classes with Sal,
because we could probably both use a refresher.

We're thinking if we get the boat in the next couple of months, so
we'd have
a good long time to get really familiar with how it sails and how we
sail
together (we've sailed locally a few times with no conflicts). The
guys are
best buddies, so that's not an issue.

So, we're going to meet up at the sail show and see what looks
interesting.
I mentioned Catalina, since I've heard the name, but apparently
they're not
quite up to the same quality standards. Is there another US-built make
in
the same class as the IP or Val? Anything else a relative novice
should
consider beyond the interpersonal/relationship stuff (we're all pretty
compatible... travelled with each other lots... and we're all pretty
independent). My main concern is can I pull my own weight on the boat,
but I
guess most of that can be figured out in sailing classes and sailing
on
whatever we get).

The older Tartans, Pacific Seacrafts, et cetera.

--http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I am not sure Valiants are still being made. How about Mason?
Morgan is good (not the Outisland series) but maybe not as good as
IP. Pearson is about in line with Morgan. Cal is supposed to be
good. S2 are good and they did make a 36
No Catalina, no Hunter, No Irwin, no Macgregor, no O'Day,
Only a year to refit a boat that size, only if you are willing to pay
a lot and it is newer.


Thanks for the list... it would definitely be newer vs. older, but I
don't think brand new. Still, a couple of years old if it's a good
quality boat seems like it shouldn't have too many problems. I don't know
what equipment we would need to add... radar maybe? Not even sure that's
needed. Mason sounds interesting. Are Cals being made?
--
Nom=de=Plume


A partnership destined to end in hell. Not necessarily because of the
partners, but because they do not know what they want or are getting in
to. Join one of the San Francisco Bay yacht clubs. There are a bunch, and
some are very reasonable. The St. Francis and Corinthian does not do not
meet that requirement. The sailors are always looking for a crew. You
will need a crew for most large sailboats. My Father in Law was a
founding member of the Richmond Yacht Club. Do not know what their costs
are. Waiting list for berths, so that does not help. He partnered for a
while, but eventually bought out the partner. He sold his Bermuda 32 as
being ketch rigged, was not easy to sail single handed. He ended up with
an Islander 30 Mk II. Nice boat, good single handed and 25 years ago,
there was a large group of I-30 class racers. You have no idea what a
large boat requires, so get some education. $200k will buy an extremely
nice boat these days. Way more than you even need to sail to The Coral
Marina in Ensenada. Or to Hawaii. Sausalito was $400 to berth 50 years
ago for a Hurricane 32, do not know what the cost is now. Oakland Estuary
has lots of resonable berths. Look at Associates membership.

Bill, thanks for the comments. We're well aware of the costs of ownership
(as much as anyone can). Jay's owned several boats, as have the others, so
they have a pretty firm idea of the costs. That's why we're looking at newer
vs. older. That's the least of our concern at this point. We've been talking
about this and the others especially have been doing much research. I do
like the idea of more than one hull... from my Hobie days... I'm sure
they're more stable than my Hobie, esp. the bigger ones. We've only talked
about catamarans, but I'd think that the same slip issues come up with three
hulls. We don't really want to haul a boat around, and I for sure don't want
to do any serious driving with one in tow in Mexico. I know it might be
overblown, but I just don't think it's safe any more.

We both think that the partnership is the biggest part of the deal,
certainly. Everyone, literally, has said to beware. It's absolutely
something to think about, and we've had the "talk" about it more than a
dozen times. Probably, we'll do that quite a bit more. I think we both think
the relationship is pretty solid at this point (about five years). He even
gets along with my ex., which is fairly amazing, since hardly anyone does
that.

Definitely no way we could afford the St. Francis or (I suppose the
Corinthian - don't know much about it). We're not much into "joining"
anyway. I don't really see the advantage of joining a club, except perhaps
for the social aspect, but since I'm living a fair distance from the bay, it
wouldn't really make much sense. If I go down there, it's either business or
pleasure.. not to sit and talk to relative strangers (get enough of that
here!).

As to cost of the boat, the good news is that brokers (and the general
selling public) are getting pushed to lower prices, so we'll potentially
save lots of money. I'm still thinking $300K is the sweet spot (financially
vs. quality of boat). That's one reason why we're going to the sail show...
see what's going on, etc. Apparently, there are used boats for sale at it
this year. No, we're not buying this week. :)

Oakland is possibility if we get desperate for space. It would be a slight
hassle for Jay/Sal/Brian... doesn't matter for me.

--
Nom=de=Plume