On 4/4/10 8:11 PM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
m...

On 4/4/10 7:40 PM, Eisboch wrote:

wrote in message
m...


The U.S. is not the only country with GPS satellites... :)

True. The Russians have the GLONASS system. That's about it.

There is a European system called Galileo in development and a Chinese
system also in development, but right now the only operational systems
are
by the USA and Russia and they are not compatible.

Eisboch




This from the NY Times:

April 4, 2007
Russia Challenges the U.S. Monopoly on Satellite Navigation
By ANDREW E. KRAMER


As an unqualified to judge layperson, I don't think Loran should be shut
down. The USA is becoming totally dependent on *one* system for commerce,
commercial shipping and military applications.
The potential damage or risk to any of them is a matter of national
security. To operate without a backup system is foolhardy.

Eisboch




Well, perhaps we should all buy some Russian GPS receiver for backup. :)

So, when LORAN was all there was, we were in "foolhardy" mode? :)

I started boating when all I had was a compass and a paper chart.







--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

On 4/4/10 8:15 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 17:03:46 GMT, "A.Boater"
wrote:

the White House fought
to close Loran-C in favor of eLoran.

OKI I admit I don't know a lot about this but are they just shutting
down LORAN-C in favor of another land based system, E-LORAN?

If so, other than having to buy the next new thing, what is the
problem?
I do understand the concern of the loss of the GPS satellites. They
are big terrorist targets primed for the taking. We should have
something else.
Of course a lot of the applications we call "GPS" are really
triangulating cell phone towers. That came from the 911 deal (the
phone number, not the date).

I want the GPS coordinates of your pineapples... :)


--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 10:17:57 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 04/04/2010 7:58 AM, hk wrote:

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five years,
Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as "the
father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS
paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a
backup.

Somehow Obama is being a real jerk in insulting our intelligence. Even
if we are gullable to believe it costs $190 million over 5 years to
keep, lets do some math.

38 million a year savings (questionable).

Obama overspend, $1.7 trillion, 2010 only.

Obama just saves 0.0022%. Big savers NOT.

Obama needs to find and execute some 44736 such savings this year to
balance the budget.

notice that, even when obama cuts spending, the right cant stop
bitching?

their solution? well...they have none.


But no one ever accused Obama of thinking things through before his gums
move.

and what did bush do?

i'm sure he thought long and hard before he got us into a trillion
dollar war.

On 04/04/2010 8:06 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 10:17:57 -0600,
wrote:

On 04/04/2010 7:58 AM, hk wrote:

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five years,
Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as "the
father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS
paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a
backup.

Somehow Obama is being a real jerk in insulting our intelligence. Even
if we are gullable to believe it costs $190 million over 5 years to
keep, lets do some math.

38 million a year savings (questionable).

Obama overspend, $1.7 trillion, 2010 only.

Obama just saves 0.0022%. Big savers NOT.

Obama needs to find and execute some 44736 such savings this year to
balance the budget.

notice that, even when obama cuts spending, the right cant stop
bitching?

their solution? well...they have none.

You are pathetic with math. There is about the same impact to peeing in
the ocean than what this cut represents to the US budget debt issues.

Save a penny and debt spend a $100... the Obama way.
--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 19:28:15 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

Now, President Obama simply decides to shut it down. No discussion that I
know of. Decision was made pretty much unilaterally it appears because *he*
doesn't think it's necessary and a waste of money.

Interesting.

Actually, I think it was the right decision. It has been almost
imppossible to buy new Loran-C equipment, or get old equipment
serviced, for quite a few years now. The market for it has
disappeared because no one really wants it. I was a big Loran-C user
for a while starting in the early to mid 80s. It was a huge
improvement over Loran-A, aircraft VOR, and radio direction finders in
general, but hardly perfect, or perfectly reliable. Loran-C
frequently became worthless in thunderstorms when you sometimes needed
it most, and it was susceptible to a variety of systemic problems
based on the geometry of transmitting stations. I've been using GPS
exclusively now for over 15 years and have never looked back.

The military have a variety of backup systems they can use when
needed. Digital electronics have also brought the cost of inertial
systems down out of the stratosphere, needing only a mass market to
make them widely affordable.

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:01:20 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 16:32:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 19:28:15 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

Now, President Obama simply decides to shut it down. No discussion that I
know of. Decision was made pretty much unilaterally it appears because *he*
doesn't think it's necessary and a waste of money.

Interesting.

Actually, I think it was the right decision. It has been almost
imppossible to buy new Loran-C equipment, or get old equipment
serviced, for quite a few years now. The market for it has
disappeared because no one really wants it. I was a big Loran-C user
for a while starting in the early to mid 80s. It was a huge
improvement over Loran-A, aircraft VOR, and radio direction finders in
general, but hardly perfect, or perfectly reliable. Loran-C
frequently became worthless in thunderstorms when you sometimes needed
it most, and it was susceptible to a variety of systemic problems
based on the geometry of transmitting stations. I've been using GPS
exclusively now for over 15 years and have never looked back.

The military have a variety of backup systems they can use when
needed. Digital electronics have also brought the cost of inertial
systems down out of the stratosphere, needing only a mass market to
make them widely affordable.

What is going on with E-LORAN?
After Harry mentioned it I found a glossy web page that seemed to be
saying this was the follow on program but it sounds like a product
without a market.

I think it's DOA. Land based hyperbolic nav technology is totally
passe unless something weird happens to GPS. Who needs it? I
wouldn't be surprised however if the military had some sort of similar
capability hidden away in case it was needed but perhaps I give them
too much credit.

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 10:34:28 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

On 04/04/2010 8:06 PM, bpuharic wrote:
On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 10:17:57 -0600,
wrote:

Obama overspend, $1.7 trillion, 2010 only.

Obama just saves 0.0022%. Big savers NOT.

Obama needs to find and execute some 44736 such savings this year to
balance the budget.

notice that, even when obama cuts spending, the right cant stop
bitching?

their solution? well...they have none.

You are pathetic with math. There is about the same impact to peeing in
the ocean than what this cut represents to the US budget debt issues.

Save a penny and debt spend a $100... the Obama way.

as i said...bitch bitch bitch.

no solutions. the right ****ed up the economy then bitches when people
try to fix it.