Bye, bye Loran
 

World War II-era navigation system shut down
By Mike M. Ahlers, CNN

* U.S. shut down 19 of 24 land-based Loran-C navigation stations on
Monday
* Administration says Loran no longer needed in era of Global
Positioning System
* Critics warn GPS is vulnerable to cyber-attacks, suggest keeping
Loran as backup

Washington -- Good night, Loran.

In a series of small ceremonies, the U.S. Coast Guard on Monday shut
down Loran-C, a navigation and timing system that has guided mariners
and aviators since World War II.

The death blow came last May when President Obama called the system
obsolete, saying it is no longer needed in an age in which Global
Positioning System devices are nearly ubiquitous in cars, planes and boats.

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five years,
Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as "the
father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS
paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a backup.

Supporters also argue that the mere existence of Loran makes the GPS
satellite system a less attractive target for cyber-thugs, terrorists or
future military adversaries.

GPS systems today are used not only for navigation, but also to provide
precise timing for ATM machines, cell phone towers, water plants and
other enterprises, and positioning information for precision-guided
weapons for the military. GPS disruptions can be costly to business,
dangerous for travelers, and debilitating to the military.

Supporters of Loran -- short for long range navigation system -- say the
system is a near-perfect backup because it provides similar information
to GPS, but has dissimilar infrastructure.

GPS is based on a constellation of at least 25 satellites; Loran is
based on 24 ground stations in the United States, and others elsewhere.
GPS transmits a very faint signal and is vulnerable to interference or
jamming; Loran has a high-power signal which can penetrate obstacles
like foliage and is harder to interrupt. GPS is powered by solar panels;
Loran is tied to ground power. And while GPS operates in outer space,
outside of controlled perimeters, Loran operates inside controlled
perimeters in the United States.

The vulnerability of GPS and the consequences of an outage became
evident in 2007 during a Navy training exercise in the Port of San
Diego, California. Participants unintentionally jammed GPS signals in
the region, shutting down satellite navigation and cell phone service up
to 10 miles inland for three hours.

The satellite-based system's vulnerability became apparent a second time
that year, when China tested an anti-satellite weapon, destroying one of
its own aging weather satellites.

Indeed, in recent years, as the popularity of GPS soared and the number
of Loran users dwindled, the fate of the Loran system has followed a
meandering path of near-death and rebirth experiences that even the most
sophisticated navigation system would have difficulty tracking.

During the Bush administration, the system was at one point placed on
the chopping block, but was resurrected amid a flurry of reports from
Loran backers.

In late 2006, an Independent Assessment Team headed by Bradford
Parkinson, known as the "father of GPS," unanimously recommended that an
enhanced version of Loran, known as eLORAN, "be completed and retained
as the national backup system for GPS," saying it had "critical safety
of life, national and economic security, and quality of life applications."

The assessment team recommended that the government complete the eLORAN
upgrade and commit to eLORAN as the national backup to GPS for 20 years.

But the Obama administration has described Loran as unnecessary and
antiquated. In a May 7 speech, Obama used Loran as an example of
government waste.

"This system once made a lot of sense, before there were satellites to
help us navigate," Obama said. "Now there's GPS. And yet, year after
year, this obsolete technology has continued to be funded even though it
serves no government function and very few people are left who still
actually use it."

So at 3 p.m. Monday, the U.S. Coast Guard turned off Loran signals at 19
of the 24 Loran stations. Signals remain at five stations because of
agreements with Russia and Canada, but the Coast Guard expects those
stations to be decommissioned by June after the United States receives
verification that those countries have been notified of the change.

The five stations that temporarily remain on line are at Attu, in
Alaska's Aleutian Islands, and Caribou, Maine; Nantucket, Massachusetts;
Shoal Cove, Alaska; and George, Washington.

Chief Warrant Officer 4 Dave Robbio said the Loran signals at the 19
closed stations will be on a "hot stand-by" for the next week, allowing
the signals to be turned back on if something unforeseen occurs. If
there are no problems, the transmitters will be completely powered down
next Monday.

Some congressional critics say it is a mistake to shut down the system.
In a November letter to Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano,
two top members of the Senate Homeland Security Committee urged that
Loran-C be spared. Deploying an enhanced Loran, or eLORAN, would cost
about $100 million, Sens. Joseph Lieberman, I-Connecticut, and Susan
Collins, R-Maine, wrote -- about one half the amount of placing one new
GPS satellite in orbit, they said.

But the case for dismantling Loran also has its advocates, including the
U.S. Coast Guard. In a submission to the Federal Register, the Coast
Guard said Loran-C was not established as, nor was it it intended to be,
a backup for GPS. Other radio navigation systems, or operational
procedures, can be used as backups for GPS navigation and other critical
applications, the Coast Guard said.

The Department of Homeland Security says it is currently reviewing the
nation's critical infrastructure "to determine if a single, domestic
system is needed as a GPS backup."

"The continued active operation of Loran-C is not necessary to advance
this evaluation," DHS said.

But hope springs eternal for some Loran supporters, who hope the Coast
Guard will mothball the system rather than destroy it.

Mothballing the stations would allow the government to resurrect the
system if ongoing studies show Loran is the appropriate backup for GPS.
But one Loran supporter acknowledged that hopes of reviving the system,
at this point, may just be "wishful thinking."

- - -

I guess this got lost in the midst of the ID spoofing, Loogy's
defecations, and SnottyScotty's mind-boggling stupidity.



--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Bye, bye Loran
 

On 04/04/2010 7:58 AM, hk wrote:

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five years,
Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as "the
father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS
paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a
backup.

Somehow Obama is being a real jerk in insulting our intelligence. Even
if we are gullable to believe it costs $190 million over 5 years to
keep, lets do some math.

38 million a year savings (questionable).

Obama overspend, $1.7 trillion, 2010 only.

Obama just saves 0.0022%. Big savers NOT.

Obama needs to find and execute some 44736 such savings this year to
balance the budget.

Too bad Obama can't save like he spends. He is going to have to go for
the fat political turkeys to get the budget balanced.

Supporters also argue that the mere existence of Loran makes the GPS
satellite system a less attractive target for cyber-thugs, terrorists or
future military adversaries.

Probably does.

But no one ever accused Obama of thinking things through before his gums
move.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

Bye, bye Loran
 

On Apr 4, 9:58*am, hk wrote:
World War II-era navigation system shut down
By Mike M. Ahlers, CNN

* * ** U.S. shut down 19 of 24 land-based Loran-C navigation stations on
Monday
* * ** Administration says Loran no longer needed in era of Global
Positioning System
* * ** Critics warn GPS is vulnerable to cyber-attacks, suggest keeping
Loran as backup

Washington -- Good night, Loran.

In a series of small ceremonies, the U.S. Coast Guard on Monday shut
down Loran-C, a navigation and timing system that has guided mariners
and aviators since World War II.

The death blow came last May when President Obama called the system
obsolete, saying it is no longer needed in an age in which Global
Positioning System devices are nearly ubiquitous in cars, planes and boats.

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five years,
Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as "the
father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS
paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a backup.

Supporters also argue that the mere existence of Loran makes the GPS
satellite system a less attractive target for cyber-thugs, terrorists or
future military adversaries.

GPS systems today are used not only for navigation, but also to provide
precise timing for ATM machines, cell phone towers, water plants and
other enterprises, and positioning information for precision-guided
weapons for the military. GPS disruptions can be costly to business,
dangerous for travelers, and debilitating to the military.

Supporters of Loran -- short for long range navigation system -- say the
system is a near-perfect backup because it provides similar information
to GPS, but has dissimilar infrastructure.

GPS is based on a constellation of at least 25 satellites; Loran is
based on 24 ground stations in the United States, and others elsewhere.
GPS transmits a very faint signal and is vulnerable to interference or
jamming; Loran has a high-power signal which can penetrate obstacles
like foliage and is harder to interrupt. GPS is powered by solar panels;
Loran is tied to ground power. And while GPS operates in outer space,
outside of controlled perimeters, Loran operates inside controlled
perimeters in the United States.

The vulnerability of GPS and the consequences of an outage became
evident in 2007 during a Navy training exercise in the Port of San
Diego, California. Participants unintentionally jammed GPS signals in
the region, shutting down satellite navigation and cell phone service up
to 10 miles inland for three hours.

The satellite-based system's vulnerability became apparent a second time
that year, when China tested an anti-satellite weapon, destroying one of
its own aging weather satellites.

Indeed, in recent years, as the popularity of GPS soared and the number
of Loran users dwindled, the fate of the Loran system has followed a
meandering path of near-death and rebirth experiences that even the most
sophisticated navigation system would have difficulty tracking.

During the Bush administration, the system was at one point placed on
the chopping block, but was resurrected amid a flurry of reports from
Loran backers.

In late 2006, an Independent Assessment Team headed by Bradford
Parkinson, known as the "father of GPS," unanimously recommended that an
enhanced version of Loran, known as eLORAN, "be completed and retained
as the national backup system for GPS," saying it had "critical safety
of life, national and economic security, and quality of life applications.."

The assessment team recommended that the government complete the eLORAN
upgrade and commit to eLORAN as the national backup to GPS for 20 years.

But the Obama administration has described Loran as unnecessary and
antiquated. In a May 7 speech, Obama used Loran as an example of
government waste.

"This system once made a lot of sense, before there were satellites to
help us navigate," Obama said. "Now there's GPS. And yet, year after
year, this obsolete technology has continued to be funded even though it
serves no government function and very few people are left who still
actually use it."

So at 3 p.m. Monday, the U.S. Coast Guard turned off Loran signals at 19
of the 24 Loran stations. Signals remain at five stations because of
agreements with Russia and Canada, but the Coast Guard expects those
stations to be decommissioned by June after the United States receives
verification that those countries have been notified of the change.

The five stations that temporarily remain on line are at Attu, in
Alaska's Aleutian Islands, and Caribou, Maine; Nantucket, Massachusetts;
Shoal Cove, Alaska; and George, Washington.

Chief Warrant Officer 4 Dave Robbio said the Loran signals at the 19
closed stations will be on a "hot stand-by" for the next week, allowing
the signals to be turned back on if something unforeseen occurs. If
there are no problems, the transmitters will be completely powered down
next Monday.

Some congressional critics say it is a mistake to shut down the system.
In a November letter to Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano,
two top members of the Senate Homeland Security Committee urged that
Loran-C be spared. Deploying an enhanced Loran, or eLORAN, would cost
about $100 million, Sens. Joseph Lieberman, I-Connecticut, and Susan
Collins, R-Maine, wrote -- about one half the amount of placing one new
GPS satellite in orbit, they said.

But the case for dismantling Loran also has its advocates, including the
U.S. Coast Guard. In a submission to the Federal Register, the Coast
Guard said Loran-C was not established as, nor was it it intended to be,
a backup for GPS. Other radio navigation systems, or operational
procedures, can be used as backups for GPS navigation and other critical
applications, the Coast Guard said.

The Department of Homeland Security says it is currently reviewing the
nation's critical infrastructure "to determine if a single, domestic
system is needed as a GPS backup."

"The continued active operation of Loran-C is not necessary to advance
this evaluation," DHS said.

But hope springs eternal for some Loran supporters, who hope the Coast
Guard will mothball the system rather than destroy it.

Mothballing the stations would allow the government to resurrect the
system if ongoing studies show Loran is the appropriate backup for GPS.
But one Loran supporter acknowledged that hopes of reviving the system,
at this point, may just be "wishful thinking."

- - -

I guess this got lost in the midst of the ID spoofing, Loogy's
defecations, and SnottyScotty's mind-boggling stupidity.

--http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I understood they wanted to get rid of Loran so the Military could
effectively shut down satellite navigation at their discression.
Commercial Fishermen are upset because Loran is a system they've used
for a long time....and like it.

A sort of "control" tactic.

Bye, bye Loran
 

On 4/4/10 12:17 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 7:58 AM, hk wrote:

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five years,
Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as "the
father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS
paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a
backup.

Somehow Obama is being a real jerk in insulting our intelligence. Even
if we are gullable to believe it costs $190 million over 5 years to
keep, lets do some math.


You don't even have a boat...


--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Bye, bye Loran
 

On 4/4/10 12:19 PM, *e#c wrote:
On Apr 4, 9:58 am, wrote:
World War II-era navigation system shut down
By Mike M. Ahlers, CNN

* U.S. shut down 19 of 24 land-based Loran-C navigation stations on
Monday
* Administration says Loran no longer needed in era of Global
Positioning System
* Critics warn GPS is vulnerable to cyber-attacks, suggest keeping
Loran as backup

Washington -- Good night, Loran.

In a series of small ceremonies, the U.S. Coast Guard on Monday shut
down Loran-C, a navigation and timing system that has guided mariners
and aviators since World War II.

The death blow came last May when President Obama called the system
obsolete, saying it is no longer needed in an age in which Global
Positioning System devices are nearly ubiquitous in cars, planes and boats.

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five years,
Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as "the
father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS
paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a backup.

Supporters also argue that the mere existence of Loran makes the GPS
satellite system a less attractive target for cyber-thugs, terrorists or
future military adversaries.

GPS systems today are used not only for navigation, but also to provide
precise timing for ATM machines, cell phone towers, water plants and
other enterprises, and positioning information for precision-guided
weapons for the military. GPS disruptions can be costly to business,
dangerous for travelers, and debilitating to the military.

Supporters of Loran -- short for long range navigation system -- say the
system is a near-perfect backup because it provides similar information
to GPS, but has dissimilar infrastructure.

GPS is based on a constellation of at least 25 satellites; Loran is
based on 24 ground stations in the United States, and others elsewhere.
GPS transmits a very faint signal and is vulnerable to interference or
jamming; Loran has a high-power signal which can penetrate obstacles
like foliage and is harder to interrupt. GPS is powered by solar panels;
Loran is tied to ground power. And while GPS operates in outer space,
outside of controlled perimeters, Loran operates inside controlled
perimeters in the United States.

The vulnerability of GPS and the consequences of an outage became
evident in 2007 during a Navy training exercise in the Port of San
Diego, California. Participants unintentionally jammed GPS signals in
the region, shutting down satellite navigation and cell phone service up
to 10 miles inland for three hours.

The satellite-based system's vulnerability became apparent a second time
that year, when China tested an anti-satellite weapon, destroying one of
its own aging weather satellites.

Indeed, in recent years, as the popularity of GPS soared and the number
of Loran users dwindled, the fate of the Loran system has followed a
meandering path of near-death and rebirth experiences that even the most
sophisticated navigation system would have difficulty tracking.

During the Bush administration, the system was at one point placed on
the chopping block, but was resurrected amid a flurry of reports from
Loran backers.

In late 2006, an Independent Assessment Team headed by Bradford
Parkinson, known as the "father of GPS," unanimously recommended that an
enhanced version of Loran, known as eLORAN, "be completed and retained
as the national backup system for GPS," saying it had "critical safety
of life, national and economic security, and quality of life applications."

The assessment team recommended that the government complete the eLORAN
upgrade and commit to eLORAN as the national backup to GPS for 20 years.

But the Obama administration has described Loran as unnecessary and
antiquated. In a May 7 speech, Obama used Loran as an example of
government waste.

"This system once made a lot of sense, before there were satellites to
help us navigate," Obama said. "Now there's GPS. And yet, year after
year, this obsolete technology has continued to be funded even though it
serves no government function and very few people are left who still
actually use it."

So at 3 p.m. Monday, the U.S. Coast Guard turned off Loran signals at 19
of the 24 Loran stations. Signals remain at five stations because of
agreements with Russia and Canada, but the Coast Guard expects those
stations to be decommissioned by June after the United States receives
verification that those countries have been notified of the change.

The five stations that temporarily remain on line are at Attu, in
Alaska's Aleutian Islands, and Caribou, Maine; Nantucket, Massachusetts;
Shoal Cove, Alaska; and George, Washington.

Chief Warrant Officer 4 Dave Robbio said the Loran signals at the 19
closed stations will be on a "hot stand-by" for the next week, allowing
the signals to be turned back on if something unforeseen occurs. If
there are no problems, the transmitters will be completely powered down
next Monday.

Some congressional critics say it is a mistake to shut down the system.
In a November letter to Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano,
two top members of the Senate Homeland Security Committee urged that
Loran-C be spared. Deploying an enhanced Loran, or eLORAN, would cost
about $100 million, Sens. Joseph Lieberman, I-Connecticut, and Susan
Collins, R-Maine, wrote -- about one half the amount of placing one new
GPS satellite in orbit, they said.

But the case for dismantling Loran also has its advocates, including the
U.S. Coast Guard. In a submission to the Federal Register, the Coast
Guard said Loran-C was not established as, nor was it it intended to be,
a backup for GPS. Other radio navigation systems, or operational
procedures, can be used as backups for GPS navigation and other critical
applications, the Coast Guard said.

The Department of Homeland Security says it is currently reviewing the
nation's critical infrastructure "to determine if a single, domestic
system is needed as a GPS backup."

"The continued active operation of Loran-C is not necessary to advance
this evaluation," DHS said.

But hope springs eternal for some Loran supporters, who hope the Coast
Guard will mothball the system rather than destroy it.

Mothballing the stations would allow the government to resurrect the
system if ongoing studies show Loran is the appropriate backup for GPS.
But one Loran supporter acknowledged that hopes of reviving the system,
at this point, may just be "wishful thinking."

- - -

I guess this got lost in the midst of the ID spoofing, Loogy's
defecations, and SnottyScotty's mind-boggling stupidity.

--http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

I understood they wanted to get rid of Loran so the Military could
effectively shut down satellite navigation at their discression.
Commercial Fishermen are upset because Loran is a system they've used
for a long time....and like it.

A sort of "control" tactic.


The U.S. is not the only country with GPS satellites... :)

--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Bye, bye Loran
 

On 04/04/2010 10:22 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/4/10 12:17 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 7:58 AM, hk wrote:

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five years,
Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as "the
father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS
paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a
backup.

Somehow Obama is being a real jerk in insulting our intelligence. Even
if we are gullable to believe it costs $190 million over 5 years to
keep, lets do some math.


You don't even have a boat...

Have a hand held GPS, and rent boats when appropriate. Sort of silly for
me to own one at the moment being I live in a land locked area. Easier
to drive the 1600 km to my favorite fishing hole and rent one for a week
or two.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

Bye, bye Loran
 

On 4/4/10 12:35 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 10:22 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/4/10 12:17 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 7:58 AM, hk wrote:

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five years,
Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as "the
father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS
paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a
backup.

Somehow Obama is being a real jerk in insulting our intelligence. Even
if we are gullable to believe it costs $190 million over 5 years to
keep, lets do some math.


You don't even have a boat...

Have a hand held GPS, and rent boats when appropriate. Sort of silly for
me to own one at the moment being I live in a land locked area. Easier
to drive the 1600 km to my favorite fishing hole and rent one for a week
or two.


Right. Of course. Just like Skipper, you drive nearly 1000 miles to go
fishing. And you track your route on your hand-held GPS.



--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Bye, bye Loran
 

On 04/04/2010 10:43 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/4/10 12:35 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 10:22 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/4/10 12:17 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 7:58 AM, hk wrote:

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five years,
Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as "the
father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS
paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a
backup.

Somehow Obama is being a real jerk in insulting our intelligence. Even
if we are gullable to believe it costs $190 million over 5 years to
keep, lets do some math.


You don't even have a boat...

Have a hand held GPS, and rent boats when appropriate. Sort of silly for
me to own one at the moment being I live in a land locked area. Easier
to drive the 1600 km to my favorite fishing hole and rent one for a week
or two.


Right. Of course. Just like Skipper, you drive nearly 1000 miles to go
fishing. And you track your route on your hand-held GPS.

You are pathetic. hk and his SS Minnow.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.

Bye, bye Loran
 

On 4/4/10 12:56 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 10:43 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/4/10 12:35 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 10:22 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/4/10 12:17 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 7:58 AM, hk wrote:

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five
years,
Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as
"the
father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS
paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a
backup.

Somehow Obama is being a real jerk in insulting our intelligence. Even
if we are gullable to believe it costs $190 million over 5 years to
keep, lets do some math.


You don't even have a boat...

Have a hand held GPS, and rent boats when appropriate. Sort of silly for
me to own one at the moment being I live in a land locked area. Easier
to drive the 1600 km to my favorite fishing hole and rent one for a week
or two.


Right. Of course. Just like Skipper, you drive nearly 1000 miles to go
fishing. And you track your route on your hand-held GPS.

You are pathetic. hk and his SS Minnow.


Please...you *drive* a thousand miles to go fishing? Bull****.


--
http://tinyurl.com/ykxp2ym

Bye, bye Loran
 

On 04/04/2010 11:05 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/4/10 12:56 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 10:43 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/4/10 12:35 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 10:22 AM, hk wrote:
On 4/4/10 12:17 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/04/2010 7:58 AM, hk wrote:

Killing Loran-C will save the government $190 million over five
years,
Obama said. But supporters of Loran -- including the man known as
"the
father of GPS" -- say the nation's increasing reliance on GPS
paradoxically has increased the importance of maintaining Loran as a
backup.

Somehow Obama is being a real jerk in insulting our intelligence.
Even
if we are gullable to believe it costs $190 million over 5 years to
keep, lets do some math.


You don't even have a boat...

Have a hand held GPS, and rent boats when appropriate. Sort of silly
for
me to own one at the moment being I live in a land locked area. Easier
to drive the 1600 km to my favorite fishing hole and rent one for a
week
or two.


Right. Of course. Just like Skipper, you drive nearly 1000 miles to go
fishing. And you track your route on your hand-held GPS.

You are pathetic. hk and his SS Minnow.


Please...you *drive* a thousand miles to go fishing? Bull****.

Yep. Bad day fishing on a boat is better than a good day a work.

I would kill before I let my fishing rods go.

--
Liberal-statism is an addiction to other peoples money.