|
Okay, so here's what happened.
"John H" wrote in message
... On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:24:12 -0800, "Steve B" wrote: "Bill McKee" wrote The DA's have enough cases, they do not want to screw around with this crap. And also if in Calif, they have to release people from jail to reduce numbers and cost. You think the DA is going to spend any time or money on a case like this? I would say that 99% of what happens is going to happen within the first 15 minutes IF a cop came, and what the attitude was, and if the person had their paperwork showing a right to claim the boat. Even the cops have better things to do, and they probably wouldn't be there five minutes before being dispatched on something more important. Steve There's a Dunkin' Donuts right down the road. Well, this pretty much shows your respect for law enforcement.... -- Nom=de=Plume |
Okay, so here's what happened.
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:29:43 -0500, John H
wrote: Smiler? You bet. You must have missed the picture giving Harry, Donny, et al, something to talk about. http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v229/167...32218_8642.jpg Them teeth look like they can do a number on ribs. (-: --Vic |
Okay, so here's what happened.
"Jim" wrote in message ... Bill McKee wrote: "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "I am Tosk" wrote in message ... In article , says... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Gene" wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them, Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town for a few days. I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message. Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing. The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16 Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch, but other than that there is no security. Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording that the phone's been disconnected. ****. I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke, or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me. This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies. Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place. I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't called, his response is, "Personal problems." Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything. -- John H It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what else. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR the best approach. To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand. You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best. When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks forgiveness, NOT permission..... -- It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while they sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc. Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and with knowledge of the law) was really stupid. Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of action available to him. Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title. Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without proof? Try me, I'll have your ass...... Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all. Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is implied by said lock. -- Nom=de=Plume Just state they said to come get your boat. And since the business has a phone disconnected, and no one was available during normal business hours or could be contacted, I did what they said to do. Picked up my boat. They would have to prove you were not told to pick up your own boat. The DA's have enough cases, they do not want to screw around with this crap. And also if in Calif, they have to release people from jail to reduce numbers and cost. You think the DA is going to spend any time or money on a case like this? Exactly. Bill, You sure do have your share of quacks over in the Quake state and "thereabouts". (Can't leave out JPS) It's the Granola state. Washington state is similar. Fruits and nuts and flakes. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
"Don White" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "JustWaitAFrekinMinute!" wrote in message ... On Nov 24, 11:39 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "I am Tosk" wrote in ... In article , says... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Gene" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them, Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town for a few days. I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message. Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing. The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16 Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch, but other than that there is no security. Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording that the phone's been disconnected. ****. I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke, or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me. This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies. Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place. I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't called, his response is, "Personal problems." Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything. -- John H It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what else. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR the best approach. To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand. You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best. When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks forgiveness, NOT permission..... -- It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while they sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc. Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and with knowledge of the law) was really stupid. Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of action available to him. Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title. Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without proof? Try me, I'll have your ass...... Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all. Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is implied by said lock. -- Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Uh, what lock? The lock on the hitch I believe. -- Nom=de=Plume Tell them it was your lock and no spare key. So.. Kalif Swill advocates lying to the police. That's a good way to get yourself shoved down a staircase....right Snotty? Asshole. Drunk with your son again? Or are you drunk alone? |
Okay, so here's what happened.
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:46:34 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote: "H the K" wrote in message ... On 11/25/09 11:51 AM, H the K wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: Probably. I read it over again, and I didn't see a mention of it being behind a gate, so they're probably let it go. Just remember though, trespass is valid even if there's no gate. You just have to be careful. If someone saw him cutting a lock and the police showed, he'd better be able to prove it's his boat. They might let him split, but you never know. As usual. You just never know. I'll be out in your neck of the woods on business soon. What say we get together and share a Corona or two? Spoofed post. Duhh.... :) Only an idiot from the south would suggest Corona in the winter. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
On 11/25/09 4:21 PM, jps wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:46:34 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "H the wrote in message ... On 11/25/09 11:51 AM, H the K wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: Probably. I read it over again, and I didn't see a mention of it being behind a gate, so they're probably let it go. Just remember though, trespass is valid even if there's no gate. You just have to be careful. If someone saw him cutting a lock and the police showed, he'd better be able to prove it's his boat. They might let him split, but you never know. As usual. You just never know. I'll be out in your neck of the woods on business soon. What say we get together and share a Corona or two? Spoofed post. Duhh.... :) Only an idiot from the south would suggest Corona in the winter. Well, I do cook hotdogs in a broth of Corona, fresh sauerkraut, chopped onions and Batampte garlic dills... :) Got the recipe at a kosher supermarket. I don't recall what brand of beer was used. Corona works fine, though... -- If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob, achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because, well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As always, have a nice, simple-minded day. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... That's a scary situation. What would you have done if the police showed up before you split? -- Nom=de=Plume As directed by the police, had they shown. To do otherwise would be breaking the law. What I did wasn't, at least in my mind. Eisboch |
Okay, so here's what happened.
Gene wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:40:47 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Rob" wrote in message ... If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If they have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy court can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust. Rob - Been there, different circumstances. It depends on what you consider to be "quickly". In many cases a Chapter 7 filing ... voluntary or involuntary ... results in all the assets and property (owned by the business or not) being held until the bankruptcy court plows through all the records. It can take months. I had a similar experience to John's a few years back in Florida. I had a Scout stored at a boat yard storage and repair place. The bank called a note on them and they were forced into Chapter 7. There was no direct notice to those of us with boats at the yard. Similar to John, I became suspicious when I could no longer contact them. I took a ride to the yard only to find it locked up with a steel gate that was padlocked. I sat there for a while in my truck and noticed a van pull up, unlock the gate and pulled into the yard. I quickly pulled up behind him and entered as well. The guy in the van got out and started yelling at me that they were "closed". By this time the situation was clear in my mind, so I pulled my truck around him and backed it up to my boat and trailer. Told him I was taking my boat. He said I couldn't .. they were "bankrupt" and everything in the yard had been frozen by the court. He ran into the building to call somebody. Meanwhile, I noticed that the trailer had a flat tire. Another guy came out and helped me put a little air in the tire and he then got the keys to the van and moved it. Apparently he didn't realize what was going on. I dragged the boat/trailer out of the yard to the nearest gas station to fill up the tire and then headed home. Checked the local "legal notices" for the town and discovered they were in bankruptcy. Never heard from them again. Eisboch That's a scary situation. What would you have done if the police showed up before you split? Nothing? So, you're a cop. What are you going to charge him with? Theft of his own property? Breaking? Nope. Entering? Nope, the gate was open. Trespassing? Nope.... he had a right to be there if he was paid up. These are civil, not criminal issues. The cops *really* don't want to deal with this. Google replevin and detinue. You'll have a much cheaper education in this than mine.... Your sig line works wonderfully when directed at the plum. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
nom=de=plume wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "JustWaitAFrekinMinute!" wrote in message ... On Nov 24, 11:39 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "I am Tosk" wrote in ... In article , says... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Gene" wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them, Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town for a few days. I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message. Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing. The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16 Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch, but other than that there is no security. Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording that the phone's been disconnected. ****. I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke, or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me. This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies. Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place. I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't called, his response is, "Personal problems." Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything. -- John H It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what else. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR the best approach. To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand. You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best. When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks forgiveness, NOT permission..... -- It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while they sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc. Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and with knowledge of the law) was really stupid. Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of action available to him. Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title. Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without proof? Try me, I'll have your ass...... Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all. Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is implied by said lock. -- Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Uh, what lock? The lock on the hitch I believe. -- Nom=de=Plume Tell them it was your lock and no spare key. So.. Kalif Swill advocates lying to the police. That's a good way to get yourself shoved down a staircase....right Snotty? That's always good for another charge... What kind of charge are you talking about? -- If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob, achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because, well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As always, have a nice, simple-minded day. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
On 11/25/09 5:50 PM, H the K wrote:
What kind of charge are you talking about? Spoofed -- If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob, achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because, well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As always, have a nice, simple-minded day. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
H the K wrote:
On 11/25/09 11:55 AM, H the K wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: Like I said, maybe. Clearly, the property wasn't abandoned, since someone was there at the end of John's story. Of course, without the complete facts, it's hard to know what would happen. We were all waiting for this enlightenment. Spoofed post. Who are you you ignorant scum of the earth. Stop following me around. -- If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob, achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because, well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As always, have a nice, simple-minded day. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
"John H" wrote in message ... Good move. I think there's something to that 'possession is nine-tenths' bit. Anyway, I feel much better having the boat back under my control. And, glad to see you're still alive and kicking. How's the shop? From your web site it appears to be doing well. I know nothing of guitars, so don't stick my head in your door. Hope you have a great Thanksgiving and that all are well. -- John H Doing well thanks. Stuck my head in here to see what's new. Seems to be a few more boating posts which is good but also still a lot of politicking and name calling. The music shop is consuming most of my time. It has grown more than I originally bargained for, but still is fun. Getting to meet a lot of interesting people. Actually sold a custom built guitar to a member of Bob Dylan's band. Actually the guitar is going to Dylan, but there were issues to get around. The band member is Donnie Herron, a multi-instrument player that has been with Dylan for about five years now, both in touring performances and recording sessions. He visited the shop, entertained us for a while (pros are in another league) and then tried one of the custom built guitars we have. He commented that "Bob would love this guitar". (It's a historic reproduction of a guitar built back around 1900). He left, but later that afternoon I got a telephone call. He said they were sending someone down from Boston to pick up the guitar and it would be on stage that night, which was the last night of Dylan's performance at the Wang Center. Pretty exciting day, both for me and the luthier who built the guitar. Take care and Happy "T" day to everyone. Eisboch |
Okay, so here's what happened.
On Nov 25, 5:06*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"John H" wrote in message ... Good move. I think there's something to that 'possession is nine-tenths' bit. Anyway, I feel much better having the boat back under my control. And, glad to see you're still alive and kicking. How's the shop? From your web site it appears to be doing well. I know nothing of guitars, so don't stick my head in your door. Hope you have a great Thanksgiving and that all are well. -- John H Doing well thanks. * Stuck my head in here to see what's new. *Seems to be a few more boating posts which is good but also still a lot of politicking and name calling. The music shop is consuming most of my time. *It has grown more than I originally bargained for, but still is fun. *Getting to meet a lot of interesting people. *Actually sold a custom built guitar to a member of Bob Dylan's band. * Actually the guitar is going to Dylan, but there were issues to get around. *The band member is Donnie Herron, a multi-instrument player that has been with Dylan for about five years now, both in touring performances and recording sessions. *He visited the shop, entertained us for a while (pros are in another league) and then tried one of the custom built guitars we have. *He commented that "Bob would love this guitar". *(It's a historic reproduction of a guitar built back around 1900). He left, but later that afternoon I got a telephone call. He said they were sending someone down from Boston to pick up the guitar and it would be on stage that night, which was the last night of Dylan's performance at the Wang Center. Pretty exciting day, both for me and the luthier who built the guitar. Take care and Happy "T" day to everyone. Eisboch Good to see you, Richard. Your board is fun too. But needs more members! |
Okay, so here's what happened.
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:06:23 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote: Take care and Happy "T" day to everyone. And you too! Stay in touch, we're here to advise you on your next boat. :-) There's always a next boat. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
"Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "Don White" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "JustWaitAFrekinMinute!" wrote in message ... On Nov 24, 11:39 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "I am Tosk" wrote in ... In article , says... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Gene" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them, Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town for a few days. I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message. Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing. The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16 Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch, but other than that there is no security. Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording that the phone's been disconnected. ****. I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke, or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me. This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies. Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place. I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't called, his response is, "Personal problems." Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything. -- John H It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what else. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR the best approach. To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand. You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best. When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks forgiveness, NOT permission..... -- It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while they sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc. Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and with knowledge of the law) was really stupid. Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of action available to him. Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title. Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without proof? Try me, I'll have your ass...... Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all. Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is implied by said lock. -- Nom=de=Plume- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Uh, what lock? The lock on the hitch I believe. -- Nom=de=Plume Tell them it was your lock and no spare key. So.. Kalif Swill advocates lying to the police. That's a good way to get yourself shoved down a staircase....right Snotty? Asshole. Drunk with your son again? Or are you drunk alone? Hey BoozyBoy. You're the one encouraging him to mislead a police officer in the commission of his duty.. What's next...perjury in the courtroom? |
Okay, so here's what happened.
"Bill McKee" wrote in message m... It's the Granola state. Washington state is similar. Fruits and nuts and flakes. How about that...you encompass all three traits. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
"Gene" wrote in message
... On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:40:47 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message om... "Rob" wrote in message ... If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If they have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy court can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust. Rob - Been there, different circumstances. It depends on what you consider to be "quickly". In many cases a Chapter 7 filing ... voluntary or involuntary ... results in all the assets and property (owned by the business or not) being held until the bankruptcy court plows through all the records. It can take months. I had a similar experience to John's a few years back in Florida. I had a Scout stored at a boat yard storage and repair place. The bank called a note on them and they were forced into Chapter 7. There was no direct notice to those of us with boats at the yard. Similar to John, I became suspicious when I could no longer contact them. I took a ride to the yard only to find it locked up with a steel gate that was padlocked. I sat there for a while in my truck and noticed a van pull up, unlock the gate and pulled into the yard. I quickly pulled up behind him and entered as well. The guy in the van got out and started yelling at me that they were "closed". By this time the situation was clear in my mind, so I pulled my truck around him and backed it up to my boat and trailer. Told him I was taking my boat. He said I couldn't .. they were "bankrupt" and everything in the yard had been frozen by the court. He ran into the building to call somebody. Meanwhile, I noticed that the trailer had a flat tire. Another guy came out and helped me put a little air in the tire and he then got the keys to the van and moved it. Apparently he didn't realize what was going on. I dragged the boat/trailer out of the yard to the nearest gas station to fill up the tire and then headed home. Checked the local "legal notices" for the town and discovered they were in bankruptcy. Never heard from them again. Eisboch That's a scary situation. What would you have done if the police showed up before you split? Nothing? So, you're a cop. What are you going to charge him with? Theft of his own property? Breaking? Nope. Entering? Nope, the gate was open. Trespassing? Nope.... he had a right to be there if he was paid up. These are civil, not criminal issues. The cops *really* don't want to deal with this. Google replevin and detinue. You'll have a much cheaper education in this than mine.... If the police show up, you better be able to prove it's your boat. If you can't immediately, they'll haul your butt in and sort it out there. You can call it civil if you want, but the facts on the ground will be your butt sitting in jail until someone shows up with the pink slip. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Okay, so here's what happened.
"Peregrine" wrote in message
... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... That's a scary situation. What would you have done if the police showed up before you split? -- Nom=de=Plume As directed by the police, had they shown. To do otherwise would be breaking the law. What I did wasn't, at least in my mind. Eisboch Good move. I don't argue with people with guns and handcuffs. :) Ah, the mind is a terrible thing to waste. :) -- Nom=de=Plume |
Okay, so here's what happened.
"H the K" wrote in message
... On 11/25/09 2:45 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: "John wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:13:15 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:07 -0500, wrote: John H wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "John wrote in message ... On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them, Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town for a few days. I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message. Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing. The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16 Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch, but other than that there is no security. Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording that the phone's been disconnected. ****. I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke, or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me. This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies. Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place. I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't called, his response is, "Personal problems." Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything. -- John H It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what else. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR the best approach. To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand. You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best. When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks forgiveness, NOT permission..... I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was in *my* driveway. They would have had the keys, but I could get more made. In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long. Rob You Sooooooooo don't get it. While they held the boat, John had to sue for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a claim on HIS boat..... Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing" his own property, I think not.... You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. We'll let me assure you this..... having been there? I'll be wrong, take my chances.... and feel very sure that I'll be fine..... Now you see why I can pay no attention to her vacuous, space-cadet responses. -- John H You're just a spineless jerk. You're so afraid of me that you block my posts??? Now, that's funny! Congratulations...you figured out that herring, like *all* the rightie extremists here, is a spineless jerk. The most spineless, though, is flajim, followed closely by Rob (Krueger). I don't think I just figured this out... no offense intended! -- Nom=de=Plume |
Okay, so here's what happened.
"jps" wrote in message
... On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:46:34 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "H the K" wrote in message ... On 11/25/09 11:51 AM, H the K wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: Probably. I read it over again, and I didn't see a mention of it being behind a gate, so they're probably let it go. Just remember though, trespass is valid even if there's no gate. You just have to be careful. If someone saw him cutting a lock and the police showed, he'd better be able to prove it's his boat. They might let him split, but you never know. As usual. You just never know. I'll be out in your neck of the woods on business soon. What say we get together and share a Corona or two? Spoofed post. Duhh.... :) Only an idiot from the south would suggest Corona in the winter. Besides, I prefer Pacifico... -- Nom=de=Plume |
Okay, so here's what happened.
"H the K" wrote in message
... On 11/25/09 5:50 PM, H the K wrote: What kind of charge are you talking about? Spoofed I don't think you have to worry about people mistaking the two of you. To answer its question... high voltage. Don't taze me bro... -- Nom=de=Plume |
Okay, so here's what happened.
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "I am Tosk" wrote in message ... In article , says... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Gene" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "John H" wrote in message ... On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them, Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town for a few days. I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message. Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing. The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16 Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch, but other than that there is no security. Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording that the phone's been disconnected. ****. I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke, or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me. This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies. Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place. I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't called, his response is, "Personal problems." Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything. -- John H It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what else. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR the best approach. To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand. You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best. When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks forgiveness, NOT permission..... -- It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while they sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc. Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and with knowledge of the law) was really stupid. Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of action available to him. Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title. Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without proof? Try me, I'll have your ass...... Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all. Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is implied by said lock. -- Nom=de=Plume Just state they said to come get your boat. And since the business has a phone disconnected, and no one was available during normal business hours or could be contacted, I did what they said to do. Picked up my boat. They would have to prove you were not told to pick up your own boat. The DA's have enough cases, they do not want to screw around with this crap. And also if in Calif, they have to release people from jail to reduce numbers and cost. You think the DA is going to spend any time or money on a case like this? So, you're willing to sit in jail... well, ok. Sure, you'll get out (maybe) after a hearing. With the docket crowded as it is, I'm sure you'd get out by February. -- Nom=de=Plume You would be out on OR in less than a couple hours. Unless you have a record as a bad guy and they want you put away. So, you don't mind sitting in jail for a couple of hours. Well, ok. Go for it. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Okay, so here's what happened.
Don White wrote:
"John wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:36:24 -0500, wrote: Don White wrote: "John wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:51:38 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:40:21 -0500, John wrote: Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything. Sounds like they're goners anyway. Looks like you were just in time. Good move. Better see if they actually winterized your boat. --Vic I'm not taking any chances. I took it to another Yamaha guy a little further down the road, Stafford Marine. Told them what happened. Told them to winterize it, even if it had already been done. I hadn't given the Dumfries folks any money, so I'm not out anything. It just takes an extra half-hour of driving to get to this place. But, that's OK. -- John H Read that manual and winterize it yourself....... oh wait...you don't read manuals. He has a big boy outboard that they don't sell at Toys R Us. Rob And a *new* big boy outboard. Once the warranty has expired, *then* I'll start doing this stuff myself. Up until then I figure I'll help out the local marina economy. When you've got all the money I have (~snerk~), a hundred bucks once a year isn't going to hurt anything! -- John H Yup...Uncle Sam has always taken good care of you and what thanks does he receive in return??? It's payback from the years he served. You will never understand that, dummy, so STFU. Rob |
Okay, so here's what happened.
Don White wrote:
"John wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:43:26 -0500, wrote: Gene wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene wrote: You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. Let point to why I think you are wrong: "In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent." Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft! The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area. Rob No it wasn't. The area it was in was not fenced or locked. It was behind the back row of a strip mall. That was one of my worries, that the boat could be pilfered. I wouldn't have had to break into anything to get it. -- John H Well this is a different scenario that we were led to believe. In this case I would have gone in and recovered my property too...assuming it was on 'common tenant ground' behind a mall. I'd claim they abandoned it. You obviously either didn't read the OP, or you are too stupid to understand what he said. Your response is worthless. Rob |
Okay, so here's what happened.
Don White wrote:
You're half right...which is better than usual. I do own a 1954/55 British Seagull 40 Plus that requires a starter rope to be wound around the flywheel. On my Princecraft Yukon I'm all electric start...... both the 25hp Johnson and the Minn Kota. Nice! Those recoil start MinnKotas are a bitch to start at times! Rob |
Okay, so here's what happened.
Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message ... If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If they have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy court can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust. Rob - Been there, different circumstances. It depends on what you consider to be "quickly". In many cases a Chapter 7 filing ... voluntary or involuntary ... results in all the assets and property (owned by the business or not) being held until the bankruptcy court plows through all the records. It can take months. I had a similar experience to John's a few years back in Florida. I had a Scout stored at a boat yard storage and repair place. The bank called a note on them and they were forced into Chapter 7. There was no direct notice to those of us with boats at the yard. Similar to John, I became suspicious when I could no longer contact them. I took a ride to the yard only to find it locked up with a steel gate that was padlocked. I sat there for a while in my truck and noticed a van pull up, unlock the gate and pulled into the yard. I quickly pulled up behind him and entered as well. The guy in the van got out and started yelling at me that they were "closed". By this time the situation was clear in my mind, so I pulled my truck around him and backed it up to my boat and trailer. Told him I was taking my boat. He said I couldn't .. they were "bankrupt" and everything in the yard had been frozen by the court. He ran into the building to call somebody. Meanwhile, I noticed that the trailer had a flat tire. Another guy came out and helped me put a little air in the tire and he then got the keys to the van and moved it. Apparently he didn't realize what was going on. I dragged the boat/trailer out of the yard to the nearest gas station to fill up the tire and then headed home. Checked the local "legal notices" for the town and discovered they were in bankruptcy. Never heard from them again. Eisboch The delay is due to poor record keeping. If the bankruptcy trustee had easy access to the list of privately owned boats in for repair, they would release them a lot sooner than if they had to wade through piles of papers. In FL, at least, they will talk to people who claim they have personal property in for repair and release it when they can confirm ownership. Rob |
Okay, so here's what happened.
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:37:45 -0500, wrote: Personal property that is in for repair is always released prior to the auction Only so far as it is "free and clear." A less than honest mechanic can create a very convincing labor lien based on services not performed. If he is *really* clever he knows how to perfect a labor lien... if not, he'll threaten and cajole. Your MilkToast position would make you ripe for picking......... man up, dude...... again..... this isn't opinion.... I have battle scars.... Why would a mechanic in a failing business have a motive to go to that trouble? Maybe your experience is different than mine. I have also seen that bankruptcy trustees can be rather flexible when it comes to obvious ownership of a product. They really don't want to deal with it. Rob |
Okay, so here's what happened.
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:41:12 -0500, wrote: Gene wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:07 -0500, wrote: John H wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "John wrote in message ... On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them, Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town for a few days. I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message. Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing. The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16 Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch, but other than that there is no security. Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording that the phone's been disconnected. ****. I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke, or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me. This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies. Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place. I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't called, his response is, "Personal problems." Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything. -- John H It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what else. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR the best approach. To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand. You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best. When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks forgiveness, NOT permission..... I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was in *my* driveway. They would have had the keys, but I could get more made. In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long. Rob You Sooooooooo don't get it. While they held the boat, John had to sue for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a claim on HIS boat..... Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing" his own property, I think not.... Wrong - unless the law varies by state (I don't believe it does). I've witnessed this first-hand. There is a designated time frame where the owners of property that is in for repair can claim it, and take it, with proper documentation. Rob Rob, I don't know where you live and I won't troll for that...... BUT.... I urge you to explore your laws and justify how a person can "STEAL" his own property. IOW.... if I come to your property and liberate your boat, your point is...... what? What do you have to do to recover your property once locked in my lot? I'll lie and say that you gave me the property for repair.... now... defend yourself..... I have nothing to defend. Tell me where I said they could claim their property unlawfully. There are people from the trustees office on property almost immediately after a Chapter 7 filing. Rob |
Okay, so here's what happened.
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:42:23 -0500, wrote: Gene wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:10:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "John wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "John wrote in message ... On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them, Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town for a few days. I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message. Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing. The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16 Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch, but other than that there is no security. Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording that the phone's been disconnected. ****. I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke, or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me. This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies. Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place. I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't called, his response is, "Personal problems." Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything. -- John H It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what else. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR the best approach. To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand. You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best. When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks forgiveness, NOT permission..... I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was in *my* driveway. They would have had the keys, but I could get more made. -- John H You'd be wrong. If you remove something from someone else's property without their permission, you're subject to arrest. Not when that "something" is YOUR property..... This nine-tenths business gets a lot of people in trouble who wouldn't have been if they just had some patience. Bull$hit... patience will only co$t you MANY dollar$ to recover that which i$ ALREADY YOUR$...... You can't "steal" something that you OWN...... If you have to enter private property to do it you can have problems. Rob Wrong.... as every Fuller Brush Man knows........ post No Trespassing signs....... maybe a different situation..... What the hell are you thinking? Private property doesn't require No Trespassing signs. It's no different than someone's house. Rob |
Okay, so here's what happened.
Gene wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:43:26 -0500, wrote: Gene wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene wrote: You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. Let point to why I think you are wrong: "In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent." Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft! The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area. Rob Really? Not when I recovered MY boat..... sorry..... so , sue me...... Good for you. You got away with it. Don't misunderstand me. I hate the bankruptcy bull****. I had a *cash* claim for over $36,000 tied up for nearly four years. I ended up with 95% of that. That would be a great outcome for this type of situation but the trustee, and their lawyers, cashed out for well over $100K. In my discussions with them they predicted a 100% return but there were two last-minute claims that they allowed. My bet is that they shot for a 100% payout and set their "expenses" accordingly. The last-minute claims cost us all about 5%. They didn't lose a dime - and probably made more. There is no oversight, that I can find, that limits their costs or the amount of time they let it drag out. Rob |
Okay, so here's what happened.
John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:43:26 -0500, wrote: Gene wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene wrote: You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. Let point to why I think you are wrong: "In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent." Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft! The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area. Rob No it wasn't. The area it was in was not fenced or locked. It was behind the back row of a strip mall. That was one of my worries, that the boat could be pilfered. I wouldn't have had to break into anything to get it. Then why the discussion about the bolt cutters and the lock?? Rob |
Okay, so here's what happened.
John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:45:38 -0800, "Bill McKee" wrote: wrote in message ... "I am wrote in message ... In , says... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:09:12 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "John wrote in message ... On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them, Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town for a few days. I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message. Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing. The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16 Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch, but other than that there is no security. Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording that the phone's been disconnected. ****. I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke, or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me. This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies. Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place. I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't called, his response is, "Personal problems." Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything. -- John H It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what else. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR the best approach. To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand. You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best. When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks forgiveness, NOT permission..... -- It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.tranquilrefuge.net/boating/the_boat/my_boat.htm Forté Agent 6.00 Build 1186 Beta No problem if you don't mind spending a couple of days in jail while they sort it out, and it's still illegal to damage property, trespass, etc. Been there, done that..... by the rules..... (which in hindsight and with knowledge of the law) was really stupid. Knowing what I know, now..... and with previous counsel of attorneys..... John was prepared to take the ONLY sane WISE course of action available to him. Pretend you are the DA.... tell me why you are arresting me for "stealing" property for which I have a Certificate of Title. Want to try to make that breaking and entering charge stick without proof? Try me, I'll have your ass...... Really. John didn't get any information from them telling him not to take his boat. He just went to grab his boat, that's all. Nope... Permission needs to be explicit. Not giving permission is implied by said lock. -- Nom=de=Plume Just state they said to come get your boat. And since the business has a phone disconnected, and no one was available during normal business hours or could be contacted, I did what they said to do. Picked up my boat. They would have to prove you were not told to pick up your own boat. The DA's have enough cases, they do not want to screw around with this crap. And also if in Calif, they have to release people from jail to reduce numbers and cost. You think the DA is going to spend any time or money on a case like this? Damn. I can't believe y'all stayed up until 1:45 AM arguing (discussing) my boat problems. If I'd been here, I could have corrected a couple assumptions. I would not have 'broken and entered' anyplace. The boat was accessible to the public, if the public drove behind the shop. No gate, no chain, no nothing. The only thing preventing the removal of the boat was a Master padlock on the hitch, which I was about to cut. I suppose, if a cop had come by, he could have hassled me. That's why I took the title of the boat with me, and the extra set of keys. I don't think the cop would have said much. I find it hard to believe that *anyone* would waste time discussing this issue with the Plum. WAFJ! OK. *That* lock. Now it makes more sense. Rob |
Okay, so here's what happened.
John H wrote:
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:36:24 -0500, wrote: Don White wrote: "John wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:51:38 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:40:21 -0500, John wrote: Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything. Sounds like they're goners anyway. Looks like you were just in time. Good move. Better see if they actually winterized your boat. --Vic I'm not taking any chances. I took it to another Yamaha guy a little further down the road, Stafford Marine. Told them what happened. Told them to winterize it, even if it had already been done. I hadn't given the Dumfries folks any money, so I'm not out anything. It just takes an extra half-hour of driving to get to this place. But, that's OK. -- John H Read that manual and winterize it yourself....... oh wait...you don't read manuals. He has a big boy outboard that they don't sell at Toys R Us. Rob And a *new* big boy outboard. Once the warranty has expired, *then* I'll start doing this stuff myself. Up until then I figure I'll help out the local marina economy. When you've got all the money I have (~snerk~), a hundred bucks once a year isn't going to hurt anything! I agree. Money well spent and documentation for your warranty. Rob |
Okay, so here's what happened.
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:40:08 -0500, "Peregrine"
wrote: "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... That's a scary situation. What would you have done if the police showed up before you split? -- Nom=de=Plume As directed by the police, had they shown. To do otherwise would be breaking the law. What I did wasn't, at least in my mind. Eisboch Getting lonely for all your old "pals" during the holidays or have you purchased your next vessel? |
Okay, so here's what happened.
NotEver wrote:
In article , naled245111 @mypacks.net says... Don White wrote: "H the K" wrote in message ... On 11/25/09 7:52 AM, Don White wrote: "John wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:43:26 -0500, wrote: Gene wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene wrote: You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. Let point to why I think you are wrong: "In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent." Note: NOT " another person's property." Therefore, Not Theft! The boat wasn't on the street, it was in a locked, private, area. Rob No it wasn't. The area it was in was not fenced or locked. It was behind the back row of a strip mall. That was one of my worries, that the boat could be pilfered. I wouldn't have had to break into anything to get it. -- John H Well this is a different scenario that we were led to believe. In this case I would have gone in and recovered my property too...assuming it was on 'common tenant ground' behind a mall. I'd claim they abandoned it. So...there's no chance herring might be arrested? Too bad. Can you imagine him locked up behind bars? All his crying & whinning would drive the cops foolish. Maybe they could put him to work in the galley...baking muffins for the other prisoners. Can you imagine what would happen if we left rec.boats? No one would ever talk about boats. I like the way you included the word galley in your post, but the idiots in rec.boats don't even know what a galley is. Please. Leave and try it. Take your suck buddy Don with you, you fat piece of ****. Sure, you need me. I make you complete. Asshole. -- If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob, achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because, well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As always, have a nice, simple-minded day. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
Don White wrote:
"Bill McKee" wrote in message m... It's the Granola state. Washington state is similar. Fruits and nuts and flakes. How about that...you encompass all three traits. Your quick wit is the only reason I still come to rec.boats. -- If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob, achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because, well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As always, have a nice, simple-minded day. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
nom=de=plume wrote:
"Gene" wrote in message ... On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:40:47 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Rob" wrote in message ... If they file Chapter 7, the boats in the yard can be quickly returned to the owners. If they are torn apart, in the middle of a service, you are out of luck and will have to pay someone else to finish the job. If they have an account started with you, with a balance, the bankruptcy court can attempt to make you pay for the benefit of the trust. Rob - Been there, different circumstances. It depends on what you consider to be "quickly". In many cases a Chapter 7 filing ... voluntary or involuntary ... results in all the assets and property (owned by the business or not) being held until the bankruptcy court plows through all the records. It can take months. I had a similar experience to John's a few years back in Florida. I had a Scout stored at a boat yard storage and repair place. The bank called a note on them and they were forced into Chapter 7. There was no direct notice to those of us with boats at the yard. Similar to John, I became suspicious when I could no longer contact them. I took a ride to the yard only to find it locked up with a steel gate that was padlocked. I sat there for a while in my truck and noticed a van pull up, unlock the gate and pulled into the yard. I quickly pulled up behind him and entered as well. The guy in the van got out and started yelling at me that they were "closed". By this time the situation was clear in my mind, so I pulled my truck around him and backed it up to my boat and trailer. Told him I was taking my boat. He said I couldn't .. they were "bankrupt" and everything in the yard had been frozen by the court. He ran into the building to call somebody. Meanwhile, I noticed that the trailer had a flat tire. Another guy came out and helped me put a little air in the tire and he then got the keys to the van and moved it. Apparently he didn't realize what was going on. I dragged the boat/trailer out of the yard to the nearest gas station to fill up the tire and then headed home. Checked the local "legal notices" for the town and discovered they were in bankruptcy. Never heard from them again. Eisboch That's a scary situation. What would you have done if the police showed up before you split? Nothing? So, you're a cop. What are you going to charge him with? Theft of his own property? Breaking? Nope. Entering? Nope, the gate was open. Trespassing? Nope.... he had a right to be there if he was paid up. These are civil, not criminal issues. The cops *really* don't want to deal with this. Google replevin and detinue. You'll have a much cheaper education in this than mine.... If the police show up, you better be able to prove it's your boat. If you can't immediately, they'll haul your butt in and sort it out there. You can call it civil if you want, but the facts on the ground will be your butt sitting in jail until someone shows up with the pink slip. You tell him, the assholes in rec.boats are too stupid to bring a valid ID and their boat registration. They are all morons. I wonder why you and I hang out with these idiots. Would you like to get together for a beer and whatever? -- If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob, achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because, well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As always, have a nice, simple-minded day. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
nom=de=plume wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message ... On 11/25/09 2:45 PM, nom=de=plume wrote: "John wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:28:18 -0500, Gene wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:13:15 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:48:07 -0500, wrote: John H wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:01:48 -0500, Gene wrote: On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:34:53 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: "John wrote in message ... On 27 October I took my boat in to get the oils changed and engine winterized. Also wanted them to check the alternator. Told them, Dumfries Marine, that they could take their time as I'd be out of town for a few days. I got back in town after a trip to NC, and saw no message on the machine from them. Didn't worry. Waited another week, but still had heard nothing. Finally, around 9 November, I'm thinking they should have called, so I call them. No answer. Leave a message. Next day same thing. I call, no answer, leave message. I did this every day that week. I try over the weekend - nothing. The next week comes and I start by calling them on Monday, that's 16 Nov. No answer. Tuesday AM I drive to Dumfries to see what the hell is happening. No one around (at about 10:30), no sign on door, no nothing. My boat is behind the building with a padlock on the hitch, but other than that there is no security. Wednesday I call again, nothing. I drive down Thursday, and again on Saturday morning. Nothing. Yesterday AM I call and get a recording that the phone's been disconnected. ****. I call the Dumfries Police. Explain what's happened. They try to call and get the answer machine. The 'disconnected' recording was a fluke, or I misdialed. Don't know. The police said they'd check things out and get back to me. They also said I might have to take the matter to civil court as they have no report of a crime. I tell them that as far as I'm concerned my boat's been stolen. They never got back to me. This morning I rent the biggest bolt cutter the rental place can provide. Costs me ten bucks. I'm off to get my damn boat. When I get there I see a pickup backed up to the door and a bunch of stuff loaded in the back. I try the door and it's open. I yell and someone replies. Turns out to be one of the two brothers who run the place. I ask what the hell's going on. He shrugs, but doesn't answer. I ask if they're still in business. Another shrug. Finally I tell him I want my damn boat. He hands me the keys. When I ask him why he hasn't called, his response is, "Personal problems." Anyway, I get my boat and go. Last time I go there for anything. -- John H It's probably pretty good that you didn't act on getting your boat with the bolt cutters. Even though it was your boat, you could be charged with trespass, breaking/entering, perhaps property damage, and God knows what else. Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. John's actions were BY FAR the best approach. To assume that our court system works is to engage in a fool's errand. You will spend forever engaged in placating the system and paying obscene amounts to attorneys.... with unpredictable results, at best. When faced with this sort of issue.... a wise individual seeks forgiveness, NOT permission..... I figured possession was nine-tenths and all that. I'd have felt much better getting hassled about cutting the lock off while the boat was in *my* driveway. They would have had the keys, but I could get more made. In this case, they had possession of the boat - not you. Under bankruptcy law, they couldn't keep it for too long. Rob You Sooooooooo don't get it. While they held the boat, John had to sue for possession. Once he had regained possession, they had to perfect a claim on HIS boat..... Maybe you think they could get the DA to arrest John for "stealing" his own property, I think not.... You would think wrong then. Well, I'll qualify that and say the police would for sure make an arrest if there were witnesses. The DA might drop the charges, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. We'll let me assure you this..... having been there? I'll be wrong, take my chances.... and feel very sure that I'll be fine..... Now you see why I can pay no attention to her vacuous, space-cadet responses. -- John H You're just a spineless jerk. You're so afraid of me that you block my posts??? Now, that's funny! Congratulations...you figured out that herring, like *all* the rightie extremists here, is a spineless jerk. The most spineless, though, is flajim, followed closely by Rob (Krueger). I don't think I just figured this out... no offense intended! Good, when I read this I thought you might be just one step above the trash called Herring -- If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob, achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because, well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As always, have a nice, simple-minded day. |
Okay, so here's what happened.
nom=de=plume wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message ... On 11/25/09 5:50 PM, H the K wrote: What kind of charge are you talking about? Spoofed I don't think you have to worry about people mistaking the two of you. To answer its question... high voltage. Don't taze me bro... I refuse to acknowledge these low life assholes, they are not worth my time. -- If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob, achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because, well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As always, have a nice, simple-minded day. |
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