[John H[_11_]]

On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:15:52 -0800 (PST), TopBassDog
wrote:

On Nov 22, 11:10*am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
wrote in message

news


On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:09:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:acleg5llsbu995202eamdrvqmscvqnn5nj@4ax. com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John H
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@ 4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13v ...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...

Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...5b-aae6-5f17-9...

And not much unlike ACORN.

Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 *"Do not think that I came to bring peace on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his
own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without
honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."

All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said to
be
out
of context. *What may be more accurate is to say that I provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. *That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be able
to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world
before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.

There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask. It's
a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. *There is a
panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in
the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture. * This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those days,
it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. *In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting
the
definition. *This also is not to suggest that a community organizer
is
anathema. *What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ
as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. *Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. *If
anything, he served as a contrary example. *If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous', you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant.
These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community
organizer
or a revolutionary. *They're working with presuppositional
definitions
that they deem free of defect. *This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
* * *-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual "community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."

Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. *Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

No the question is whether or not the extreme right tried to use community
organizing against Obama in the election. This has nothing to do with
Jesus
or the organizing he was a part of.

You have a good day today, Em.

You also. Since you haven't rebuked the right's anti-community organizing
message, I'm assuming you agree with it.

--
Nom=de=Plume

D'Plume. He answered your question quite well. It's not his problem
that you cannot absorb, let alone the fact that you fall short to
comprehend his reason.

I like that logic: Anyone who doesn't respond to a statement of
d'plum's automatically agrees with said statement.

Damn, you can't fault logic like that.

WAFJ!
--

John H

[nom=de=plume]

"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 11/22/09 1:30 PM, jps wrote:
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:10:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in
nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

I have no doubt you would have termed it pre-Christian if you'd have
anticipated the tight cranial sphincter of the insurance salesman.

As you know, there was no "Christian" community during Jesus' life. He
was part of the Jewish *Community*. It was a large community, with
everyone attending the same Temple. Jesus' followers were Jews who
were dissatisfied with the Temple and thought his ideas had merit. He
was the leader of a group that organized people to consider a
different approach to Judaism and life. He tended to their needs.

I'm sure any lesser mind can discount that he was a community
organizer in the modern sense, but he was.

It was decades before followers of Jesus formed their own synagogue to
pursue what eventually became Christianity 10 decades later. And,
from what I recall, that happened in Italy and elsewhere, not Israel.

The insurance salesman's disingenuous responses are only meant to win
an argument, an artful response to your common sense.


In point of fact, Jesus was a pious Jew, and did not "preach" to the
pagans. The pagans were the non-Jews in the area where he allegedly lived
and preached. He also did not "convert" any Jews or pagans to a new
religion.

Christianity, as with every other religion, is a creation of man.


Certainly true. But, the philosophy He taught is still around. In fact, if
you want to be technical about it, He was resurrected and then ascended to
Heaven. He's still here, although we can't see Him.

--
Nom=de=Plume

[nom=de=plume]

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...
On Nov 22, 11:10 am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
wrote in message

news


On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:09:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:acleg5llsbu995202eamdrvqmscvqnn5nj@4ax. com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John H

wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@ 4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13v ...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...

Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...5b-aae6-5f17-9...

And not much unlike ACORN.

Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him
to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace
on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his
own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without
honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in
his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell
no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering
that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."

All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said
to
be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I
provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be
able
to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world
before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.

There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free
to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I
don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask.
It's
a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a
panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in
the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture. This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those
days,
it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting
the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community
organizer
is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ
as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous',
you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant.
These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community
organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional
definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in
proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in
their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual
"community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to
generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the
table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work
with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."

Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

No the question is whether or not the extreme right tried to use
community
organizing against Obama in the election. This has nothing to do with
Jesus
or the organizing he was a part of.

You have a good day today, Em.

You also. Since you haven't rebuked the right's anti-community organizing
message, I'm assuming you agree with it.

--
Nom=de=Plume

D'Plume. He answered your question quite well. It's not his problem
that you cannot absorb, let alone the fact that you fall short to
comprehend his reason.


No he didn't. I think it's an embarassment for people who actually think,
yet still kowtow to the right.

--
Nom=de=Plume

[H the K[_4_]]

On 11/22/09 4:56 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"H the wrote in message
...
On 11/22/09 1:30 PM, jps wrote:
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:10:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in
nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

I have no doubt you would have termed it pre-Christian if you'd have
anticipated the tight cranial sphincter of the insurance salesman.

As you know, there was no "Christian" community during Jesus' life. He
was part of the Jewish *Community*. It was a large community, with
everyone attending the same Temple. Jesus' followers were Jews who
were dissatisfied with the Temple and thought his ideas had merit. He
was the leader of a group that organized people to consider a
different approach to Judaism and life. He tended to their needs.

I'm sure any lesser mind can discount that he was a community
organizer in the modern sense, but he was.

It was decades before followers of Jesus formed their own synagogue to
pursue what eventually became Christianity 10 decades later. And,
from what I recall, that happened in Italy and elsewhere, not Israel.

The insurance salesman's disingenuous responses are only meant to win
an argument, an artful response to your common sense.


In point of fact, Jesus was a pious Jew, and did not "preach" to the
pagans. The pagans were the non-Jews in the area where he allegedly lived
and preached. He also did not "convert" any Jews or pagans to a new
religion.

Christianity, as with every other religion, is a creation of man.


Certainly true. But, the philosophy He taught is still around. In fact, if
you want to be technical about it, He was resurrected and then ascended to
Heaven. He's still here, although we can't see Him.



That's the claim...

There are lots of over-the-top claims in the world of religious belief.
Very few of them are provable.




--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

[nom=de=plume]

"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 11/22/09 4:56 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"H the wrote in message
...
On 11/22/09 1:30 PM, jps wrote:
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:10:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a
community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic
definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early
church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in
nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

I have no doubt you would have termed it pre-Christian if you'd have
anticipated the tight cranial sphincter of the insurance salesman.

As you know, there was no "Christian" community during Jesus' life. He
was part of the Jewish *Community*. It was a large community, with
everyone attending the same Temple. Jesus' followers were Jews who
were dissatisfied with the Temple and thought his ideas had merit. He
was the leader of a group that organized people to consider a
different approach to Judaism and life. He tended to their needs.

I'm sure any lesser mind can discount that he was a community
organizer in the modern sense, but he was.

It was decades before followers of Jesus formed their own synagogue to
pursue what eventually became Christianity 10 decades later. And,
from what I recall, that happened in Italy and elsewhere, not Israel.

The insurance salesman's disingenuous responses are only meant to win
an argument, an artful response to your common sense.


In point of fact, Jesus was a pious Jew, and did not "preach" to the
pagans. The pagans were the non-Jews in the area where he allegedly
lived
and preached. He also did not "convert" any Jews or pagans to a new
religion.

Christianity, as with every other religion, is a creation of man.


Certainly true. But, the philosophy He taught is still around. In fact,
if
you want to be technical about it, He was resurrected and then ascended
to
Heaven. He's still here, although we can't see Him.



That's the claim...

There are lots of over-the-top claims in the world of religious belief.
Very few of them are provable.


Certainly true. It's a claim. It's a faith. I have it, others don't, but I'm
not going to impose my faith on others. That's an abomination.

--
Nom=de=Plume

[H the K[_4_]]

On 11/22/09 8:21 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"H the wrote in message
...
On 11/22/09 4:56 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"H the wrote in message
...
On 11/22/09 1:30 PM, jps wrote:
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:10:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a
community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic
definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early
church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in
nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

I have no doubt you would have termed it pre-Christian if you'd have
anticipated the tight cranial sphincter of the insurance salesman.

As you know, there was no "Christian" community during Jesus' life. He
was part of the Jewish *Community*. It was a large community, with
everyone attending the same Temple. Jesus' followers were Jews who
were dissatisfied with the Temple and thought his ideas had merit. He
was the leader of a group that organized people to consider a
different approach to Judaism and life. He tended to their needs.

I'm sure any lesser mind can discount that he was a community
organizer in the modern sense, but he was.

It was decades before followers of Jesus formed their own synagogue to
pursue what eventually became Christianity 10 decades later. And,
from what I recall, that happened in Italy and elsewhere, not Israel.

The insurance salesman's disingenuous responses are only meant to win
an argument, an artful response to your common sense.


In point of fact, Jesus was a pious Jew, and did not "preach" to the
pagans. The pagans were the non-Jews in the area where he allegedly
lived
and preached. He also did not "convert" any Jews or pagans to a new
religion.

Christianity, as with every other religion, is a creation of man.


Certainly true. But, the philosophy He taught is still around. In fact,
if
you want to be technical about it, He was resurrected and then ascended
to
Heaven. He's still here, although we can't see Him.



That's the claim...

There are lots of over-the-top claims in the world of religious belief.
Very few of them are provable.


Certainly true. It's a claim. It's a faith. I have it, others don't, but I'm
not going to impose my faith on others. That's an abomination.



Precisely. Believe what you want, practice it in your homes and your
houses of worship, but keep it out of *my* government.


--
If you are flajim, herring, loogy, GC boater, johnson, topbassdog, rob,
achmed the sock puppet, or one of a half dozen others, you're wasting
your time by trying to *communicate* with me through rec.boats, because,
well, you are among the permanent members of my dumbfoch dumpster, and I
don't read the vomit you post, except by accident on occasion. As
always, have a nice, simple-minded day.

[TopBassDog]

On Nov 22, 3:57*pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"TopBassDog" wrote in message

...
On Nov 22, 11:10 am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:



wrote in message

news

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:09:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:acleg5llsbu995202eamdrvqmscvqnn5nj@4ax. com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John H

wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@ 4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13v ...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...

Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...5b-aae6-5f17-9...

And not much unlike ACORN.

Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him
to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace
on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his
own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without
honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in
his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell
no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering
that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."

All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said
to
be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I
provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be
able
to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world
before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a "revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.

There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel free
to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I
don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask.
It's
a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a
panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist in
the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture. This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those
days,
it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to fitting
the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community
organizer
is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe Christ
as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous',
you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant.
These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community
organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional
definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases..

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in
proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in
their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual
"community
building," community organizers generally assume that social change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to
generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the
table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work
with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and assisting
in the development of campaigns."

Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church..
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

No the question is whether or not the extreme right tried to use
community
organizing against Obama in the election. This has nothing to do with
Jesus
or the organizing he was a part of.

You have a good day today, Em.

You also. Since you haven't rebuked the right's anti-community organizing
message, I'm assuming you agree with it.

--
Nom=de=Plume
D'Plume. He answered your question quite well. It's not his problem
that you cannot absorb, let alone the fact that you fall short to
comprehend his reason.

No he didn't. I think it's an embarassment for people who actually think,
yet still kowtow to the right.

--
Nom=de=Plume

So you're opinion and for their credabilities sake, D'Plume, is that
the educated should only "kowtow" to the left?

And of whom do you feel embarassed for? The left, for letting the
educated escape their clutches? Or the right, for actually admitting
the educated into their realm?

[nom=de=plume]

"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 11/22/09 8:21 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"H the wrote in message
...
On 11/22/09 4:56 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"H the wrote in message
...
On 11/22/09 1:30 PM, jps wrote:
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:10:31 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a
community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic
definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early
church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in
nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

I have no doubt you would have termed it pre-Christian if you'd have
anticipated the tight cranial sphincter of the insurance salesman.

As you know, there was no "Christian" community during Jesus' life.
He
was part of the Jewish *Community*. It was a large community, with
everyone attending the same Temple. Jesus' followers were Jews who
were dissatisfied with the Temple and thought his ideas had merit.
He
was the leader of a group that organized people to consider a
different approach to Judaism and life. He tended to their needs.

I'm sure any lesser mind can discount that he was a community
organizer in the modern sense, but he was.

It was decades before followers of Jesus formed their own synagogue
to
pursue what eventually became Christianity 10 decades later. And,
from what I recall, that happened in Italy and elsewhere, not Israel.

The insurance salesman's disingenuous responses are only meant to win
an argument, an artful response to your common sense.


In point of fact, Jesus was a pious Jew, and did not "preach" to the
pagans. The pagans were the non-Jews in the area where he allegedly
lived
and preached. He also did not "convert" any Jews or pagans to a new
religion.

Christianity, as with every other religion, is a creation of man.


Certainly true. But, the philosophy He taught is still around. In fact,
if
you want to be technical about it, He was resurrected and then ascended
to
Heaven. He's still here, although we can't see Him.



That's the claim...

There are lots of over-the-top claims in the world of religious belief.
Very few of them are provable.


Certainly true. It's a claim. It's a faith. I have it, others don't, but
I'm
not going to impose my faith on others. That's an abomination.



Precisely. Believe what you want, practice it in your homes and your
houses of worship, but keep it out of *my* government.


Absolutely. Sorry if I agree.

--
Nom=de=Plume

[nom=de=plume]

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...
On Nov 22, 3:57 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"TopBassDog" wrote in message

...
On Nov 22, 11:10 am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:



wrote in message

news

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:09:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:acleg5llsbu995202eamdrvqmscvqnn5nj@4ax. com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John H

wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@ 4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13v ...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...

Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...5b-aae6-5f17-9...

And not much unlike ACORN.

Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him
to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace
on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate
his
own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without
honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in
his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell
no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering
that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."

All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was
more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said
to
be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I
provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be
able
to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world
before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a
"revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.

There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel
free
to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I
don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask.
It's
a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a
panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist
in
the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture.
This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those
days,
it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to
fitting
the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community
organizer
is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe
Christ
as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a
legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of
writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous',
you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant.
These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community
organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional
definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband
Access

You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in
proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in
their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual
"community
building," community organizers generally assume that social
change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to
generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the
table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work
with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and
assisting
in the development of campaigns."

Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a
community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in
nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

No the question is whether or not the extreme right tried to use
community
organizing against Obama in the election. This has nothing to do with
Jesus
or the organizing he was a part of.

You have a good day today, Em.

You also. Since you haven't rebuked the right's anti-community
organizing
message, I'm assuming you agree with it.

--
Nom=de=Plume
D'Plume. He answered your question quite well. It's not his problem
that you cannot absorb, let alone the fact that you fall short to
comprehend his reason.

No he didn't. I think it's an embarassment for people who actually think,
yet still kowtow to the right.

--
Nom=de=Plume

So you're opinion and for their credabilities sake, D'Plume, is that
the educated should only "kowtow" to the left?

Absolutely not! No one should be subservient to intelligent thought and
rational thinking.

And of whom do you feel embarassed for? The left, for letting the
educated escape their clutches? Or the right, for actually admitting
the educated into their realm?

If only the right actually admitted the educated and responsible (I add that
because many on the right are educated, at least somewhat, but they seem to
be subservient.

I feel embarassed for the US. A prime example, during the Republican primary
process where a bunch of guys on stage said that they didn't believe in
evolution.

--
Nom=de=Plume

[jps]

On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:24:05 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...
On Nov 22, 3:57 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"TopBassDog" wrote in message

...
On Nov 22, 11:10 am, "nom=de=plume" wrote:



wrote in message

news

On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:09:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:39:48 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:40 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:acleg5llsbu995202eamdrvqmscvqnn5nj@4ax. com...
On Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:45:19 -0500, John H

wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:34:21 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:00:42 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:u0tbg5p53o6om8flm9uropquhj5c3j5ipe@ 4ax.com...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:59:50 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:ir9bg55003or5vckj6sgf0q2qgek6u13v ...
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:59:22 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"TopBassDog" wrote in message
...

Hitler had his organizers (Brown Shirts) too!

http://www.trib.com/news/opinion/mai...5b-aae6-5f17-9...

And not much unlike ACORN.

Jesus was a community organizer. Why don't you compare Him
to
Hitler...

Jesus was a community organizer?

NAS Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace
on
the
earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

NAS Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate
his
own
father and mother and wife and children and brothers and
sisters,
yes,
and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

NAS Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without
honor
except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in
his
own
household."

NAS Matthew 8:4 And Jesus *said to him, "See that you tell
no
one;
but
go, show yourself to the priest and present the offering
that
Moses
commanded, as a testimony to them."

All taken out of context. But, if you believe that He was
more
interested
in
profit than people, I'm not sure what I can add.

Any passage or quote taken out of an extant text can be said
to
be
out
of context. What may be more accurate is to say that I
provided
no
extensive excerpts to provide additional context. That being
said,
though, if Jesus were a community organizer, you should be
able
to
provide those passages that qualifiably make that case.
Alternately,
I can make the case that Christ was removed from this world
before
the
Christian community was "organized" by the apostles and His
disciples.
In the truest since of the word, Christ was a
"revolutionary,"
not
a
community organizer.

There was no such phrase in those times, as you know. Feel
free
to
tell
me
how bad a community organizer is if that's your intention. I
don't
need
to
"provide" passages, and if you knew better, you wouldn't ask.
It's
a
completely ingenuous argument.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by all of this. There is a
panoply
of theological terms, or phrases, that certainly didn't exist
in
the
time of Christ that are used to describe particular premises,
doctrines, tenets, and manifestations in Biblical scripture.
This
fact doesn't detract from the validity of those scriptural
components.
Though, "no such phrase" may not have been employed in those
days,
it
doesn't take away from the fact there may have been community
organizers. In fact, the Apostle Paul comes very close to
fitting
the
definition. This also is not to suggest that a community
organizer
is
anathema. What I find offensive is any attempt to describe
Christ
as
a community organizer in order to elevate the vocation to lofty
heights. Jesus Christ simply was not a community organizer. If
anything, he served as a contrary example. If it is a
legitimate
exercise to describe Christ as community organizer, then it's
legitimacy can be adduced from the time-honored canon of
writings
from
which excerpts can be submitted to buttress the assertion.

You would think that once she called your argument 'ingenuous',
you
would be quite satisfied to have proven your point.

Was that a Freudian slip? Only the Shadow knows.

That's why I iterated that I wasn't quite sure what she meant.
These
folks also don't seem to know the definition of a community
organizer
or a revolutionary. They're working with presuppositional
definitions
that they deem free of defect. This might help the wayward
antagonist, though;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Organizer

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revolutionary

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband
Access

You're starting to sound like an apologist for the right nutcases.

As should be obvious, my apologetics are centered elsewhere.

Now for the occasionally indolent reader that may chance upon this
post, here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article;

"Community organizing is a process by which people living in
proximity
to each other are brought together in an organization to act in
their
shared self-interest. Unlike other forms of more consensual
"community
building," community organizers generally assume that social
change
necessarily involves conflict and social struggle in order to
generate
collective power for the powerless. A core goal of community
organizing is to generate durable power for an organization
representing the community, allowing it to influence key
decision-makers on a range of issues over time. In the ideal, for
example, this can get community organizing groups a place at the
table
before important decisions are made.[1] Community organizers work
with
and develop new local leaders, facilitating coalitions and
assisting
in the development of campaigns."

Sounds like early Christianity to me.

Em, the question has to do with whether or not Christ was a
community
organizer. Though, what is described in this encyclopedic definition
does not parallel what is described or recorded of the early church.
Early Christianity was set apart from the community-at-large in
nearly
all corners of the Roman empire.

No the question is whether or not the extreme right tried to use
community
organizing against Obama in the election. This has nothing to do with
Jesus
or the organizing he was a part of.

You have a good day today, Em.

You also. Since you haven't rebuked the right's anti-community
organizing
message, I'm assuming you agree with it.

--
Nom=de=Plume
D'Plume. He answered your question quite well. It's not his problem
that you cannot absorb, let alone the fact that you fall short to
comprehend his reason.

No he didn't. I think it's an embarassment for people who actually think,
yet still kowtow to the right.

--
Nom=de=Plume

So you're opinion and for their credabilities sake, D'Plume, is that
the educated should only "kowtow" to the left?

Absolutely not! No one should be subservient to intelligent thought and
rational thinking.

And of whom do you feel embarassed for? The left, for letting the
educated escape their clutches? Or the right, for actually admitting
the educated into their realm?

If only the right actually admitted the educated and responsible (I add that
because many on the right are educated, at least somewhat, but they seem to
be subservient.

I feel embarassed for the US. A prime example, during the Republican primary
process where a bunch of guys on stage said that they didn't believe in
evolution.

Never have I observed disdain for education like what was on display
during the last presidential election cycle. I thought Republicans
were going to discover the teachings of Pol Pot weren't so bad
afterall. Joe the Plumber. Sarah Palin.

There was a consistent undercurrent of disregard and hatred for the
educated population and it wasn't coming from Democrats.

The insurance salesman will next attempt to back up Virginia Foxx's
claim that Republicans were responsible for the great society movement
of the 60s, without so much as a wisp of help from Democrats.

Where do these people get their information? Do they print this crap
somewhere or is it all word of mouth?