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Ford's success...
"Stevie" wrote in message
... nom=de=plume wrote: "Bill wrote in message m... wrote in message ... "Bill wrote in message m... wrote in message ... wrote in message ... ...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to stop it. " Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force as it tries to cut costs further. Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring." The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions that Ford workers have made."" http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing decent products that people want to buy? -- Nom=de=Plume They are decent products. But if you are paying some low skilled laborer excess money, then the decent product is priced out of the market. Then, when the contract expires the company should seek to renegotiate. It takes two parties to make a contract. If there's good management in place, then the union members will feel better about consessions. -- Nom=de=Plume Yup, they should pay the workers what they are worth. A lot less than they are making. $65 bundled labor cost to install a lug nut? Yes. I agree. What, pray tell, are they worth? Who determines this? You? It should be the open market. Not back-room negotiating by union thugs who suck money from their members. -S Hate to tell you, but it _is_ the open market. See representative democracy vs. management thugs. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Ford's success...
"Stevie" wrote in message
... Jim wrote: nom=de=plume wrote: "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "JohnH" wrote in message ... ...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to stop it. " Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force as it tries to cut costs further. Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring." The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions that Ford workers have made."" http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing decent products that people want to buy? -- Nom=de=Plume They are decent products. But if you are paying some low skilled laborer excess money, then the decent product is priced out of the market. Then, when the contract expires the company should seek to renegotiate. It takes two parties to make a contract. If there's good management in place, then the union members will feel better about consessions. There's another option. Ford can tell the unions to **** off. If it were only that simple... -S That's a perfectly valid thing to do, as long as you accept the consequences. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Ford's success...
"Stevie" wrote in message
... nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message ... nom=de=plume wrote: wrote in message ... On Nov 3, 5:40 pm, John wrote: On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:59:08 -0800, "nom=de=plume" wrote: wrote in message ... ...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to stop it. " Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force as it tries to cut costs further. Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring." The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions that Ford workers have made."" http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing decent products that people want to buy? lol lol Ford is producing America's best vehicles. Their corporate leadership has put them into a strong position, not having to take any bailout money. Wonderful! Funny how the union thugs always blame a struggling company on the management, but in this case, the union wants to take credit for management's success. Freakin' union leeches. I thought Ford wasn't struggling? Does the management team build the cars or is that done by the workers? Union management is the most corrupt entity in big business... right behind Chicago politics. It has been in the past. Don't know if union management is now. Let's assume it is. Does that excuse management greed? What about the greed of the union organizers who rely on the dues of hard working people for their income? Do you really think they are in it for the cause? -S I'm unsure. Probably some are for the cause, some are for the money. That's really beside the point. It's still a negotiation that has to take place. It doesn't *have* to take place. Trust me. I've talked to enough union employees to know that the hard working hate it and the slackers love it. -S In today's reality, it does. Talking to some union folk does not a non-negotiation (umm) not make. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Ford's success...
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "JohnH" wrote in message ... ...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to stop it. " Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force as it tries to cut costs further. Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring." The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions that Ford workers have made."" http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing decent products that people want to buy? -- Nom=de=Plume They are decent products. But if you are paying some low skilled laborer excess money, then the decent product is priced out of the market. Then, when the contract expires the company should seek to renegotiate. It takes two parties to make a contract. If there's good management in place, then the union members will feel better about consessions. -- Nom=de=Plume Yup, they should pay the workers what they are worth. A lot less than they are making. $65 bundled labor cost to install a lug nut? Yes. I agree. What, pray tell, are they worth? Who determines this? You? -- Nom=de=Plume The market place. Not the union strong arming the company. Between the union and **** poor management over the at least 40 years before the crash, there is no way the car companies can succeed. Hate to tell you, but a negotiated contract _is_ the market rate. Looks like Ford is going to do ok and even GM is doing better. Chrysler I think is on the way out completely. -- Nom=de=Plume The artificial market rate. **** Poor management is the reason for those egregious contracts. American car companies at the time had 80 or 90% of the world market. Why worry about fiscal responsibility when you could pass on the cost and produce crappy cars. Now the real market rate is maybe 25% of the negotiated rate. My daughter bought a used Hyundai station wagon a couple years ago. 100k warrantee, good car, 70% the price of a comparable American car. Buy American? Not when it comes with a 42% premium. For a car with less warrantee. Please show us the data for the "real" market rate. Yes. ****-poor management. I agree. Thus, unions came into being. -- Nom=de=Plume Look at what the non union successful car companies are paying and a valid market rate is less than that. |
Ford's success...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "JohnH" wrote in message ... ...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to stop it. " Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force as it tries to cut costs further. Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring." The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions that Ford workers have made."" http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing decent products that people want to buy? -- Nom=de=Plume They are decent products. But if you are paying some low skilled laborer excess money, then the decent product is priced out of the market. Then, when the contract expires the company should seek to renegotiate. It takes two parties to make a contract. If there's good management in place, then the union members will feel better about consessions. -- Nom=de=Plume Yup, they should pay the workers what they are worth. A lot less than they are making. $65 bundled labor cost to install a lug nut? Yes. I agree. What, pray tell, are they worth? Who determines this? You? -- Nom=de=Plume The market place. Not the union strong arming the company. Between the union and **** poor management over the at least 40 years before the crash, there is no way the car companies can succeed. Hate to tell you, but a negotiated contract _is_ the market rate. Looks like Ford is going to do ok and even GM is doing better. Chrysler I think is on the way out completely. -- Nom=de=Plume The artificial market rate. **** Poor management is the reason for those egregious contracts. American car companies at the time had 80 or 90% of the world market. Why worry about fiscal responsibility when you could pass on the cost and produce crappy cars. Now the real market rate is maybe 25% of the negotiated rate. My daughter bought a used Hyundai station wagon a couple years ago. 100k warrantee, good car, 70% the price of a comparable American car. Buy American? Not when it comes with a 42% premium. For a car with less warrantee. Please show us the data for the "real" market rate. Yes. ****-poor management. I agree. Thus, unions came into being. -- Nom=de=Plume Look at what the non union successful car companies are paying and a valid market rate is less than that. Huh? Non union car companies not paying a valid market rate? How do you figure that one? -- Nom=de=Plume |
Ford's success...
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "JohnH" wrote in message ... ...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to stop it. " Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force as it tries to cut costs further. Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring." The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions that Ford workers have made."" http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing decent products that people want to buy? -- Nom=de=Plume They are decent products. But if you are paying some low skilled laborer excess money, then the decent product is priced out of the market. Then, when the contract expires the company should seek to renegotiate. It takes two parties to make a contract. If there's good management in place, then the union members will feel better about consessions. -- Nom=de=Plume Yup, they should pay the workers what they are worth. A lot less than they are making. $65 bundled labor cost to install a lug nut? Yes. I agree. What, pray tell, are they worth? Who determines this? You? -- Nom=de=Plume The market place. Not the union strong arming the company. Between the union and **** poor management over the at least 40 years before the crash, there is no way the car companies can succeed. Hate to tell you, but a negotiated contract _is_ the market rate. Looks like Ford is going to do ok and even GM is doing better. Chrysler I think is on the way out completely. -- Nom=de=Plume The artificial market rate. **** Poor management is the reason for those egregious contracts. American car companies at the time had 80 or 90% of the world market. Why worry about fiscal responsibility when you could pass on the cost and produce crappy cars. Now the real market rate is maybe 25% of the negotiated rate. My daughter bought a used Hyundai station wagon a couple years ago. 100k warrantee, good car, 70% the price of a comparable American car. Buy American? Not when it comes with a 42% premium. For a car with less warrantee. Please show us the data for the "real" market rate. Yes. ****-poor management. I agree. Thus, unions came into being. -- Nom=de=Plume Look at what the non union successful car companies are paying and a valid market rate is less than that. Huh? Non union car companies not paying a valid market rate? How do you figure that one? -- Nom=de=Plume They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even less, if the unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt companies and taxpayers. |
Ford's success...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "JohnH" wrote in message ... ...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to stop it. " Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force as it tries to cut costs further. Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring." The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions that Ford workers have made."" http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing decent products that people want to buy? -- Nom=de=Plume They are decent products. But if you are paying some low skilled laborer excess money, then the decent product is priced out of the market. Then, when the contract expires the company should seek to renegotiate. It takes two parties to make a contract. If there's good management in place, then the union members will feel better about consessions. -- Nom=de=Plume Yup, they should pay the workers what they are worth. A lot less than they are making. $65 bundled labor cost to install a lug nut? Yes. I agree. What, pray tell, are they worth? Who determines this? You? -- Nom=de=Plume The market place. Not the union strong arming the company. Between the union and **** poor management over the at least 40 years before the crash, there is no way the car companies can succeed. Hate to tell you, but a negotiated contract _is_ the market rate. Looks like Ford is going to do ok and even GM is doing better. Chrysler I think is on the way out completely. -- Nom=de=Plume The artificial market rate. **** Poor management is the reason for those egregious contracts. American car companies at the time had 80 or 90% of the world market. Why worry about fiscal responsibility when you could pass on the cost and produce crappy cars. Now the real market rate is maybe 25% of the negotiated rate. My daughter bought a used Hyundai station wagon a couple years ago. 100k warrantee, good car, 70% the price of a comparable American car. Buy American? Not when it comes with a 42% premium. For a car with less warrantee. Please show us the data for the "real" market rate. Yes. ****-poor management. I agree. Thus, unions came into being. -- Nom=de=Plume Look at what the non union successful car companies are paying and a valid market rate is less than that. Huh? Non union car companies not paying a valid market rate? How do you figure that one? -- Nom=de=Plume They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even less, if the unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt companies and taxpayers. So, the non-union car companies pay a valid market rate, which is fine if you can convince the workers to get rid of the union. It doesn't happen that often, but I have no problem with it per se. -- Nom=de=Plume |
Ford's success...
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message ... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "JohnH" wrote in message ... ...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to stop it. " Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force as it tries to cut costs further. Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring." The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions that Ford workers have made."" http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing decent products that people want to buy? -- Nom=de=Plume They are decent products. But if you are paying some low skilled laborer excess money, then the decent product is priced out of the market. Then, when the contract expires the company should seek to renegotiate. It takes two parties to make a contract. If there's good management in place, then the union members will feel better about consessions. -- Nom=de=Plume Yup, they should pay the workers what they are worth. A lot less than they are making. $65 bundled labor cost to install a lug nut? Yes. I agree. What, pray tell, are they worth? Who determines this? You? -- Nom=de=Plume The market place. Not the union strong arming the company. Between the union and **** poor management over the at least 40 years before the crash, there is no way the car companies can succeed. Hate to tell you, but a negotiated contract _is_ the market rate. Looks like Ford is going to do ok and even GM is doing better. Chrysler I think is on the way out completely. -- Nom=de=Plume The artificial market rate. **** Poor management is the reason for those egregious contracts. American car companies at the time had 80 or 90% of the world market. Why worry about fiscal responsibility when you could pass on the cost and produce crappy cars. Now the real market rate is maybe 25% of the negotiated rate. My daughter bought a used Hyundai station wagon a couple years ago. 100k warrantee, good car, 70% the price of a comparable American car. Buy American? Not when it comes with a 42% premium. For a car with less warrantee. Please show us the data for the "real" market rate. Yes. ****-poor management. I agree. Thus, unions came into being. -- Nom=de=Plume Look at what the non union successful car companies are paying and a valid market rate is less than that. Huh? Non union car companies not paying a valid market rate? How do you figure that one? -- Nom=de=Plume They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even less, if the unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt companies and taxpayers. So, the non-union car companies pay a valid market rate, which is fine if you can convince the workers to get rid of the union. It doesn't happen that often, but I have no problem with it per se. -- Nom=de=Plume Basically the non union shops pay the workers enough and will build a plant somewhere else if they need more capacity if the shop goes union. |
Ford's success...
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:03:13 -0800, Bill McKee wrote:
They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even less, if the unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt companies and taxpayers. Funny, instead of focusing on bottom up, perhaps more focus should be placed on top down. Toyota's top 37 executives earned a combined $21.6 million. That bum Wagoner's compensation, alone, was $14.4 million. At Honda, the top 21 executives earned $11.1 million combined. Ford's CEO Mulally's compensation was $17.7 million in 2008. If the boss thinks there's that kind of money floating around, why wonder if the working man wants a piece. Or, is this just another example of voodoo economics, you know, Reagan's "tinkle down" economics? |
Ford's success...
Bill McKee wrote:
"nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "Bill McKee" wrote in message m... "nom=de=plume" wrote in message ... "JohnH" wrote in message ... ...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to stop it. " Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force as it tries to cut costs further. Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring." The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions that Ford workers have made."" http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing decent products that people want to buy? -- Nom=de=Plume They are decent products. But if you are paying some low skilled laborer excess money, then the decent product is priced out of the market. Then, when the contract expires the company should seek to renegotiate. It takes two parties to make a contract. If there's good management in place, then the union members will feel better about consessions. -- Nom=de=Plume Yup, they should pay the workers what they are worth. A lot less than they are making. $65 bundled labor cost to install a lug nut? Yes. I agree. What, pray tell, are they worth? Who determines this? You? -- Nom=de=Plume The market place. Not the union strong arming the company. Between the union and **** poor management over the at least 40 years before the crash, there is no way the car companies can succeed. Hate to tell you, but a negotiated contract _is_ the market rate. Looks like Ford is going to do ok and even GM is doing better. Chrysler I think is on the way out completely. -- Nom=de=Plume The artificial market rate. **** Poor management is the reason for those egregious contracts. American car companies at the time had 80 or 90% of the world market. Why worry about fiscal responsibility when you could pass on the cost and produce crappy cars. Now the real market rate is maybe 25% of the negotiated rate. My daughter bought a used Hyundai station wagon a couple years ago. 100k warrantee, good car, 70% the price of a comparable American car. Buy American? Not when it comes with a 42% premium. For a car with less warrantee. Please show us the data for the "real" market rate. Yes. ****-poor management. I agree. Thus, unions came into being. -- Nom=de=Plume Look at what the non union successful car companies are paying and a valid market rate is less than that. The management is wising up and learning to deal with the ****-poor unions. |
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