Ford's success...
 

On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:41:31 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"thunder" wrote in message
t...
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:03:13 -0800, Bill McKee wrote:


They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even
less, if
the unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt companies and
taxpayers.

Funny, instead of focusing on bottom up, perhaps more focus should
be
placed on top down. Toyota's top 37 executives earned a combined
$21.6
million. That bum Wagoner's compensation, alone, was $14.4 million.
At
Honda, the top 21 executives earned $11.1 million combined. Ford's
CEO
Mulally's compensation was $17.7 million in 2008. If the boss
thinks
there's that kind of money floating around, why wonder if the
working man
wants a piece.

Or, is this just another example of voodoo economics, you know,
Reagan's
"tinkle down" economics?

Yes, the **** poor managment of the Big 3 auto companies is famous.
And they are overpaid. But why should the guy on the assembly line
with maybe a GED putting on lugnuts also be overpaid. As I said bad
management also. As to the lower pay of the Japanese. Is true, but
is not a true picture of the pay. They basically have unlimited
expense accounts, which mitigates a lot of personal taxes.

How do you determine if s/he is overpaid? What the criteria? Seems to
me either union or non-union it's a negotiation that ends up at the
market rate.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Compare her wage to what you would have to pay anywhere else including
shipping and time value and you have a valid market wage.

Anywhere else? How about Mexico, since it's pretty close. Something
manufactured in TJ, delivered to San D. That's the valid market rate in
TJ, but the living expenses are pretty different.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Yup, used to not be that huge differential in pay between the 2
countries. We did not pay our people 10x, but maybe 3x even mexico.

Right on. And, who's standard of living is better? What do we get for the
taxes we pay vs. what those in Mexico pays?

--
Nom=de=Plume


What do we get from our excess taxation?

The greatest country in the world?

The most fertile climate for business start ups, expansion, financing,
educated population, semi-efficient transportation, clean air, water,
medical research, etc., etc.

If you don't like it you can always relocate. I'm sure Mexico would
be pleased to host you.

Sorry if you consider this lying.

Ford's success..., GM and math.
 

In article ,
says...

nom=de=plume wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to
stop it.

" Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force
as it tries to cut costs further.

Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United
Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor
concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers
at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring."

The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in
charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the
carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions
that Ford workers have made.""

http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay


Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing decent
products that people want to buy?


My Honda, which was built in the US by American labor, was hit by a
young gal, while on her cell phone, was too busy to look behind her.
It's in the shop for two weeks.

I asked for an American car at Enterprise rent a car. I got a 2010
Chevy Impala. It's a nice car, even though there's a sticky spot on the
dash (poorly mixed epoxy) which never should have made it out of the
factory.

I liked it enough to research some highlights.

It was actually built in Canada. It sells for $28,000 new, but a one
year old one with 20,000 miles can be had at Carmax.com for just about
half. $14,000

My Honda cost $18,200 new, a one year old one can be gotten for $17,000.
A three year old one, with 60,000 is $14,000.

Who, in their right mind would take a hit like 50% in a new car?

Now I understand why GM is in such trouble, who would be dumb enough to
buy a new one?

Whenever I travel for business I aways rent a Chevy Impala. Overall they
are nice cars but, as you have found they are over priced. And, I would
never buy one because they are not Ford's.

Ford's success...
 

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:16:32 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
news:uKmdnUunEfEGa2jXnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@earthlink. com...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in
message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in
message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in
message
...
...will last until the union or the government
figures
out a way to
stop it.

" Ford is also running into resistance from its
unionized work force
as it tries to cut costs further.

Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by
the United
Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another
round of labor
concessions that would have roughly matched
concessions that workers
at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the
spring."

The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its
vice
president in
charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a
statement
that the
carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the
contributions
that Ford workers have made.""

http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay


Why should they cave to demands from management? How
about producing decent products that people want to
buy?

--
Nom=de=Plume


They are decent products. But if you are paying some
low skilled laborer excess money, then the decent
product is priced out of the market.

Then, when the contract expires the company should seek
to renegotiate. It takes two parties to make a
contract.
If there's good management in place, then the union
members will feel better about consessions.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Yup, they should pay the workers what they are worth. A
lot less than they are making. $65 bundled labor cost
to
install a lug nut?

Yes. I agree. What, pray tell, are they worth? Who
determines this? You?

--
Nom=de=Plume


The market place. Not the union strong arming the
company.
Between the union and **** poor management over the at
least
40 years before the crash, there is no way the car
companies
can succeed.

Hate to tell you, but a negotiated contract _is_ the market
rate. Looks like Ford is going to do ok and even GM is
doing
better. Chrysler I think is on the way out completely.

--
Nom=de=Plume


The artificial market rate. **** Poor management is the
reason for those egregious contracts. American car
companies
at the time had 80 or 90% of the world market. Why worry
about fiscal responsibility when you could pass on the cost
and produce crappy cars. Now the real market rate is maybe
25% of the negotiated rate. My daughter bought a used
Hyundai
station wagon a couple years ago. 100k warrantee, good car,
70% the price of a comparable American car. Buy American?
Not when it comes with a 42% premium. For a car with less
warrantee.

Please show us the data for the "real" market rate. Yes.
****-poor management. I agree. Thus, unions came into being.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Look at what the non union successful car companies are paying
and a valid market rate is less than that.

Huh? Non union car companies not paying a valid market rate?
How
do you figure that one?

--
Nom=de=Plume


They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even
less, if the unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt
companies and taxpayers.

So, the non-union car companies pay a valid market rate, which is
fine if you can convince the workers to get rid of the union. It
doesn't happen that often, but I have no problem with it per se.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Basically the non union shops pay the workers enough and will
build
a plant somewhere else if they need more capacity if the shop goes
union.

Thus they pay the valid market rate. Not sure what you mean by
"enough." Union shops pay a valid market rate also, but with
different facts involved. They will also build a plant somewhere
else
if they need more capacity union or no union.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Valid market rate? If the job could financially be outsourced then
it
will be. In the 1980's the fully bundled labor costs in a tech
factory in Malaysia was about $3.50 an hour. Why disk drives were
assembled overseas, as the bundled labor cost here was above $35 an
hour. Due to government overspending and excess union contracts we
have priced America out of most manufacturing jobs. Government has
added to this. Most government contracts require "prevailing wages".
They mean union wages and not what the prevailing market rate is.



You're the one who keeps mentioning the valid rate, but you don't
want
to name it. We can't compete on labor costs with Malaysia. We can
compete on quality and innovation. I don't think we want to be the
McDees of disk drives.

--
Nom=de=Plume


We used to compete with Malasia and all the 3rd world countries. But
due to overspending by our government and lots of excess regulations
we
priced ourselves out of most markets.

I thought it was the unions' fault.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Right and Harry and you and the unions added to the excess cost. Glad
you
realized that, and pointed it out.

Bill, everything "adds" to costs. That's the nature of the world.

I *am* glad I pointed it out, since you didn't understand previously.

By Bill's definition, you are lying.

Everyone who doesn't agree with Bill is lying.

Another lie.

Ford's success...
 

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:41:31 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"thunder" wrote in message
t...
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:03:13 -0800, Bill McKee wrote:


They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even
less, if
the unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt companies
and
taxpayers.

Funny, instead of focusing on bottom up, perhaps more focus should
be
placed on top down. Toyota's top 37 executives earned a combined
$21.6
million. That bum Wagoner's compensation, alone, was $14.4
million.
At
Honda, the top 21 executives earned $11.1 million combined.
Ford's
CEO
Mulally's compensation was $17.7 million in 2008. If the boss
thinks
there's that kind of money floating around, why wonder if the
working man
wants a piece.

Or, is this just another example of voodoo economics, you know,
Reagan's
"tinkle down" economics?

Yes, the **** poor managment of the Big 3 auto companies is famous.
And they are overpaid. But why should the guy on the assembly line
with maybe a GED putting on lugnuts also be overpaid. As I said
bad
management also. As to the lower pay of the Japanese. Is true, but
is not a true picture of the pay. They basically have unlimited
expense accounts, which mitigates a lot of personal taxes.

How do you determine if s/he is overpaid? What the criteria? Seems
to
me either union or non-union it's a negotiation that ends up at the
market rate.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Compare her wage to what you would have to pay anywhere else
including
shipping and time value and you have a valid market wage.

Anywhere else? How about Mexico, since it's pretty close. Something
manufactured in TJ, delivered to San D. That's the valid market rate
in
TJ, but the living expenses are pretty different.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Yup, used to not be that huge differential in pay between the 2
countries. We did not pay our people 10x, but maybe 3x even mexico.

Right on. And, who's standard of living is better? What do we get for
the
taxes we pay vs. what those in Mexico pays?

--
Nom=de=Plume


What do we get from our excess taxation?

The greatest country in the world?

The most fertile climate for business start ups, expansion, financing,
educated population, semi-efficient transportation, clean air, water,
medical research, etc., etc.

If you don't like it you can always relocate. I'm sure Mexico would
be pleased to host you.

Sorry if you consider this lying.

We used to be the most fertile climate for business. Now? We rank low in
education, even through the Federal government took over education control
from the states, We are exporting our manufacturing and techical jobs.
This is a good business climate. Mexico is a country with a very strong
central government and you see what that country is going through. Look at
the permitting required for a lot of business. 10-15 different agencies
with conflicting requirements. We have lost the edge. And I do not see
with the present politicians from both sides of the aisle that we have a
clue on how to fix it.

Ford's success...
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
...

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:41:31 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"thunder" wrote in message
t...
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:03:13 -0800, Bill McKee wrote:


They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even
less, if
the unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt companies
and
taxpayers.

Funny, instead of focusing on bottom up, perhaps more focus
should
be
placed on top down. Toyota's top 37 executives earned a combined
$21.6
million. That bum Wagoner's compensation, alone, was $14.4
million.
At
Honda, the top 21 executives earned $11.1 million combined.
Ford's
CEO
Mulally's compensation was $17.7 million in 2008. If the boss
thinks
there's that kind of money floating around, why wonder if the
working man
wants a piece.

Or, is this just another example of voodoo economics, you know,
Reagan's
"tinkle down" economics?

Yes, the **** poor managment of the Big 3 auto companies is
famous.
And they are overpaid. But why should the guy on the assembly
line
with maybe a GED putting on lugnuts also be overpaid. As I said
bad
management also. As to the lower pay of the Japanese. Is true,
but
is not a true picture of the pay. They basically have unlimited
expense accounts, which mitigates a lot of personal taxes.

How do you determine if s/he is overpaid? What the criteria? Seems
to
me either union or non-union it's a negotiation that ends up at the
market rate.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Compare her wage to what you would have to pay anywhere else
including
shipping and time value and you have a valid market wage.

Anywhere else? How about Mexico, since it's pretty close. Something
manufactured in TJ, delivered to San D. That's the valid market rate
in
TJ, but the living expenses are pretty different.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Yup, used to not be that huge differential in pay between the 2
countries. We did not pay our people 10x, but maybe 3x even mexico.

Right on. And, who's standard of living is better? What do we get for
the
taxes we pay vs. what those in Mexico pays?

--
Nom=de=Plume


What do we get from our excess taxation?

The greatest country in the world?

The most fertile climate for business start ups, expansion, financing,
educated population, semi-efficient transportation, clean air, water,
medical research, etc., etc.

If you don't like it you can always relocate. I'm sure Mexico would
be pleased to host you.

Sorry if you consider this lying.

We used to be the most fertile climate for business. Now? We rank low
in education, even through the Federal government took over education
control from the states, We are exporting our manufacturing and techical
jobs. This is a good business climate. Mexico is a country with a very
strong central government and you see what that country is going through.
Look at the permitting required for a lot of business. 10-15 different
agencies with conflicting requirements. We have lost the edge. And I do
not see with the present politicians from both sides of the aisle that we
have a clue on how to fix it.

If that's how you feel, you should vote Libertarian next goround..
--
Nom=de=Plume

Ford's success...
 

On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 13:12:09 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:16:32 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
news:uKmdnUunEfEGa2jXnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@earthlink .com...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in
message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in
message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in
message
...
...will last until the union or the government
figures
out a way to
stop it.

" Ford is also running into resistance from its
unionized work force
as it tries to cut costs further.

Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by
the United
Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another
round of labor
concessions that would have roughly matched
concessions that workers
at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the
spring."

The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its
vice
president in
charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a
statement
that the
carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the
contributions
that Ford workers have made.""

http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay


Why should they cave to demands from management? How
about producing decent products that people want to
buy?

--
Nom=de=Plume


They are decent products. But if you are paying some
low skilled laborer excess money, then the decent
product is priced out of the market.

Then, when the contract expires the company should seek
to renegotiate. It takes two parties to make a
contract.
If there's good management in place, then the union
members will feel better about consessions.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Yup, they should pay the workers what they are worth. A
lot less than they are making. $65 bundled labor cost
to
install a lug nut?

Yes. I agree. What, pray tell, are they worth? Who
determines this? You?

--
Nom=de=Plume


The market place. Not the union strong arming the
company.
Between the union and **** poor management over the at
least
40 years before the crash, there is no way the car
companies
can succeed.

Hate to tell you, but a negotiated contract _is_ the market
rate. Looks like Ford is going to do ok and even GM is
doing
better. Chrysler I think is on the way out completely.

--
Nom=de=Plume


The artificial market rate. **** Poor management is the
reason for those egregious contracts. American car
companies
at the time had 80 or 90% of the world market. Why worry
about fiscal responsibility when you could pass on the cost
and produce crappy cars. Now the real market rate is maybe
25% of the negotiated rate. My daughter bought a used
Hyundai
station wagon a couple years ago. 100k warrantee, good car,
70% the price of a comparable American car. Buy American?
Not when it comes with a 42% premium. For a car with less
warrantee.

Please show us the data for the "real" market rate. Yes.
****-poor management. I agree. Thus, unions came into being.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Look at what the non union successful car companies are paying
and a valid market rate is less than that.

Huh? Non union car companies not paying a valid market rate?
How
do you figure that one?

--
Nom=de=Plume


They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even
less, if the unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt
companies and taxpayers.

So, the non-union car companies pay a valid market rate, which is
fine if you can convince the workers to get rid of the union. It
doesn't happen that often, but I have no problem with it per se.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Basically the non union shops pay the workers enough and will
build
a plant somewhere else if they need more capacity if the shop goes
union.

Thus they pay the valid market rate. Not sure what you mean by
"enough." Union shops pay a valid market rate also, but with
different facts involved. They will also build a plant somewhere
else
if they need more capacity union or no union.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Valid market rate? If the job could financially be outsourced then
it
will be. In the 1980's the fully bundled labor costs in a tech
factory in Malaysia was about $3.50 an hour. Why disk drives were
assembled overseas, as the bundled labor cost here was above $35 an
hour. Due to government overspending and excess union contracts we
have priced America out of most manufacturing jobs. Government has
added to this. Most government contracts require "prevailing wages".
They mean union wages and not what the prevailing market rate is.



You're the one who keeps mentioning the valid rate, but you don't
want
to name it. We can't compete on labor costs with Malaysia. We can
compete on quality and innovation. I don't think we want to be the
McDees of disk drives.

--
Nom=de=Plume


We used to compete with Malasia and all the 3rd world countries. But
due to overspending by our government and lots of excess regulations
we
priced ourselves out of most markets.

I thought it was the unions' fault.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Right and Harry and you and the unions added to the excess cost. Glad
you
realized that, and pointed it out.

Bill, everything "adds" to costs. That's the nature of the world.

I *am* glad I pointed it out, since you didn't understand previously.

By Bill's definition, you are lying.

Everyone who doesn't agree with Bill is lying.

Another lie.

OMG, now you're lying about lying. I can't believe what a liar you
are.

Ford's success...
 

On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 13:19:09 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:41:31 -0800, "Bill McKee"
wrote:


"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"thunder" wrote in message
t...
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:03:13 -0800, Bill McKee wrote:


They pay less, have less onerous work rules, and would pay even
less, if
the unions were not getting a bunch from the bankrupt companies
and
taxpayers.

Funny, instead of focusing on bottom up, perhaps more focus should
be
placed on top down. Toyota's top 37 executives earned a combined
$21.6
million. That bum Wagoner's compensation, alone, was $14.4
million.
At
Honda, the top 21 executives earned $11.1 million combined.
Ford's
CEO
Mulally's compensation was $17.7 million in 2008. If the boss
thinks
there's that kind of money floating around, why wonder if the
working man
wants a piece.

Or, is this just another example of voodoo economics, you know,
Reagan's
"tinkle down" economics?

Yes, the **** poor managment of the Big 3 auto companies is famous.
And they are overpaid. But why should the guy on the assembly line
with maybe a GED putting on lugnuts also be overpaid. As I said
bad
management also. As to the lower pay of the Japanese. Is true, but
is not a true picture of the pay. They basically have unlimited
expense accounts, which mitigates a lot of personal taxes.

How do you determine if s/he is overpaid? What the criteria? Seems
to
me either union or non-union it's a negotiation that ends up at the
market rate.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Compare her wage to what you would have to pay anywhere else
including
shipping and time value and you have a valid market wage.

Anywhere else? How about Mexico, since it's pretty close. Something
manufactured in TJ, delivered to San D. That's the valid market rate
in
TJ, but the living expenses are pretty different.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Yup, used to not be that huge differential in pay between the 2
countries. We did not pay our people 10x, but maybe 3x even mexico.

Right on. And, who's standard of living is better? What do we get for
the
taxes we pay vs. what those in Mexico pays?

--
Nom=de=Plume


What do we get from our excess taxation?

The greatest country in the world?

The most fertile climate for business start ups, expansion, financing,
educated population, semi-efficient transportation, clean air, water,
medical research, etc., etc.

If you don't like it you can always relocate. I'm sure Mexico would
be pleased to host you.

Sorry if you consider this lying.

We used to be the most fertile climate for business. Now? We rank low in
education, even through the Federal government took over education control
from the states, We are exporting our manufacturing and techical jobs.
This is a good business climate. Mexico is a country with a very strong
central government and you see what that country is going through. Look at
the permitting required for a lot of business. 10-15 different agencies
with conflicting requirements. We have lost the edge. And I do not see
with the present politicians from both sides of the aisle that we have a
clue on how to fix it.

Mexico once had an emerging middle class. Their economy was headed
north. Then they decided they didn't need a middle class, the rich
needed more money. Guess what happened? They went in the ********.

Any clues there for you?

Reagan and GW Bush did whatever they could to dismantle the middle
class in favor of the rich. Where did it get us? That's right Bill,
into a ********.

Borrowing money from China to pay for tax cuts to the rich. Brilliant.

Ford's success...
 

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:19:09 -0800, Bill McKee wrote:


We used to be the most fertile climate for business. Now? We rank low
in education, even through the Federal government took over education
control from the states, We are exporting our manufacturing and
techical jobs. This is a good business climate. Mexico is a country
with a very strong central government and you see what that country is
going through. Look at the permitting required for a lot of business.
10-15 different agencies with conflicting requirements. We have lost
the edge. And I do not see with the present politicians from both sides
of the aisle that we have a clue on how to fix it.

Huh? The World Bank ranks us #4 on Ease of Doing Business, and by the
way, Mexico is ranked #55.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ease_of...Business_Index

Ford's success...
 

"thunder" wrote in message
t...
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:19:09 -0800, Bill McKee wrote:


We used to be the most fertile climate for business. Now? We rank low
in education, even through the Federal government took over education
control from the states, We are exporting our manufacturing and
techical jobs. This is a good business climate. Mexico is a country
with a very strong central government and you see what that country is
going through. Look at the permitting required for a lot of business.
10-15 different agencies with conflicting requirements. We have lost
the edge. And I do not see with the present politicians from both sides
of the aisle that we have a clue on how to fix it.

Huh? The World Bank ranks us #4 on Ease of Doing Business, and by the
way, Mexico is ranked #55.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ease_of...Business_Index


It's Obama's fault we're not number one!

--
Nom=de=Plume

Ford's success..., GM and math.
 

BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...
nom=de=plume wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
...will last until the union or the government figures out a way to
stop it.

" Ford is also running into resistance from its unionized work force
as it tries to cut costs further.

Its improving fortunes were the main reason cited by the United
Automobile Workers on Monday for rejecting another round of labor
concessions that would have roughly matched concessions that workers
at Chrysler and General Motors approved in the spring."

The U.A.W.'s president, Ron Gettelfinger, and its vice president in
charge of the Ford unit, Bob King, said in a statement that the
carmaker's third-quarter profit was "evidence of the contributions
that Ford workers have made.""

http://tinyurl.com/ya4pyay

Why should they cave to demands from management? How about producing decent
products that people want to buy?

My Honda, which was built in the US by American labor, was hit by a
young gal, while on her cell phone, was too busy to look behind her.
It's in the shop for two weeks.

I asked for an American car at Enterprise rent a car. I got a 2010
Chevy Impala. It's a nice car, even though there's a sticky spot on the
dash (poorly mixed epoxy) which never should have made it out of the
factory.

I liked it enough to research some highlights.

It was actually built in Canada. It sells for $28,000 new, but a one
year old one with 20,000 miles can be had at Carmax.com for just about
half. $14,000

My Honda cost $18,200 new, a one year old one can be gotten for $17,000.
A three year old one, with 60,000 is $14,000.

Who, in their right mind would take a hit like 50% in a new car?

Now I understand why GM is in such trouble, who would be dumb enough to
buy a new one?

Whenever I travel for business I aways rent a Chevy Impala. Overall they
are nice cars but, as you have found they are over priced. And, I would
never buy one because they are not Ford's.



I can see following the advise of buying a two year old car, if an
Impala is what you want. Why there are any two year old ones is the
question. Why would anyone throw away money like that, to drive a nice,
but bland 4 door sedan. The seats are too soft, the ride's a bit squishy.

Buying a two year old Honda is different. I don't understand why people
would pay within 10% of the price of a new one for a used car. But they do.

The Impala is really a Canadian car, the Honda assembled by US labor, so
you can't even use flag waving as an excuse.

By the way, here's the mileage sco

Impala- 27.5 mpg
Honda- 33 mpg

Impala is a much bigger car, but it's really too big for today's smaller
parking spaces.