On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.



Taught by whom? Not out here, as far as I know.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:29:14 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.



Taught by whom? Not out here, as far as I know.

Training schools approved and monitored by USCG.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:29:14 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.



Taught by whom? Not out here, as far as I know.

Training schools approved and monitored by USCG.



That's too bad. It's not been my experience out here, but I suppose it
happens.

My understanding is that the approved schools really aren't monitored,
certainly not closely. They typically get the curriculum approved, and
that's about it beside submitting the completed tests. You're talking about
regular sailing schools or license classes (e.g., OUPV, 100GT)?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:40:16 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:29:14 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.



Taught by whom? Not out here, as far as I know.

Training schools approved and monitored by USCG.



That's too bad. It's not been my experience out here, but I suppose it
happens.

Actually it might be a good thing in terms of educating the chowder
heads who go around motoring with their mainsail up, and trying to
press for right of way.


My understanding is that the approved schools really aren't monitored,
certainly not closely. They typically get the curriculum approved, and
that's about it beside submitting the completed tests. You're talking about
regular sailing schools or license classes (e.g., OUPV, 100GT)?

License classes. Several different instructors have told me that
admiralty courts have ruled that if propulsion is on and available,
then the boat can not be considered under sail for purposes of
collision avoidance.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:40:16 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:29:14 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.
That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.


Taught by whom? Not out here, as far as I know.
Training schools approved and monitored by USCG.


That's too bad. It's not been my experience out here, but I suppose it
happens.

Actually it might be a good thing in terms of educating the chowder
heads who go around motoring with their mainsail up, and trying to
press for right of way.

My understanding is that the approved schools really aren't monitored,
certainly not closely. They typically get the curriculum approved, and
that's about it beside submitting the completed tests. You're talking about
regular sailing schools or license classes (e.g., OUPV, 100GT)?

License classes. Several different instructors have told me that
admiralty courts have ruled that if propulsion is on and available,
then the boat can not be considered under sail for purposes of
collision avoidance.

There's a (slightly) subtle point here. If you had power available and
did not use it to avoid a collision, that's your bad. On the other
hand, you can't look at a sailboat and say "He looks like a chowderhead,
I'll bet he has his motor running" and treat him as a powerboat.

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:40:16 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:29:14 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.
That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these
days.


Taught by whom? Not out here, as far as I know.
Training schools approved and monitored by USCG.


That's too bad. It's not been my experience out here, but I suppose it
happens.

Actually it might be a good thing in terms of educating the chowder
heads who go around motoring with their mainsail up, and trying to
press for right of way.

My understanding is that the approved schools really aren't monitored,
certainly not closely. They typically get the curriculum approved, and
that's about it beside submitting the completed tests. You're talking
about regular sailing schools or license classes (e.g., OUPV, 100GT)?

License classes. Several different instructors have told me that
admiralty courts have ruled that if propulsion is on and available,
then the boat can not be considered under sail for purposes of
collision avoidance.

There's a (slightly) subtle point here. If you had power available and
did not use it to avoid a collision, that's your bad. On the other hand,
you can't look at a sailboat and say "He looks like a chowderhead, I'll
bet he has his motor running" and treat him as a powerboat.

That would be my take on it.

I can't comment on what an admiralty court would or wouldn't do. During
regular sailing classes (not licensing classes for which I'm not qualified
to teach), I tell them the law (engine engaged) and the practical side (act
like it is - these boats don't need to charge batteries while underway) and
to use all available means to avoid a collision.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:32:26 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.

Not really. Even Americas Cup racers are permitted to run an engine
for charging purposes while racing.

I have an outboard on my boat. If I am just noodling around and not
trying to set any speed records, I may leave the engine in the water
while sailing, even though it is not running. That may look like I'm
motoring to you, but if you don't see a black sphere hanging from my
spreaders, or a steaming light, I'm a sailboat.

That's the LAW.

If I am running my engine in neutral, I am still 100% a sailboat. That
is the law. It is the responsibility of all mariners to pay attention
to lights and dayshapes.

Also bear in mind that a boat that is motoring with it's sails up is
somewhat restricted in it's ability to manuver. Power boats can slow,
stop, and turn immediately in any direction. A motorsailer, not so
much.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:32:26 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.

Not really. Even Americas Cup racers are permitted to run an engine
for charging purposes while racing.

I have an outboard on my boat. If I am just noodling around and not
trying to set any speed records, I may leave the engine in the water
while sailing, even though it is not running. That may look like I'm
motoring to you, but if you don't see a black sphere hanging from my
spreaders, or a steaming light, I'm a sailboat.

That's the LAW.

If I am running my engine in neutral, I am still 100% a sailboat. That
is the law. It is the responsibility of all mariners to pay attention
to lights and dayshapes.

Also bear in mind that a boat that is motoring with it's sails up is
somewhat restricted in it's ability to manuver. Power boats can slow,
stop, and turn immediately in any direction. A motorsailer, not so
much.


If I see a black sphere in your rigging I will assume that you are anchored,
since that's what that shape says. A steaming sailboat requires an inverted
cone shape. How many have one aboard; how many actually deploy it?

--
KLC Lewis

WISCONSIN
Where It's So Cool Outside, Nobody Stays Indoors Napping
www.KLCLewisStudios.com

In article ,
says...

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:32:26 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider
myself a powerboat.

That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days.

Not really. Even Americas Cup racers are permitted to run an engine
for charging purposes while racing.

I have an outboard on my boat. If I am just noodling around and not
trying to set any speed records, I may leave the engine in the water
while sailing, even though it is not running. That may look like I'm
motoring to you, but if you don't see a black sphere hanging from my
spreaders, or a steaming light, I'm a sailboat.

That's the LAW.

If I am running my engine in neutral, I am still 100% a sailboat. That
is the law. It is the responsibility of all mariners to pay attention
to lights and dayshapes.

Also bear in mind that a boat that is motoring with it's sails up is
somewhat restricted in it's ability to manuver. Power boats can slow,
stop, and turn immediately in any direction. A motorsailer, not so
much.


If I see a black sphere in your rigging I will assume that you are anchored,
since that's what that shape says. A steaming sailboat requires an inverted
cone shape. How many have one aboard; how many actually deploy it?

Oh Gawd, Salty is back.. I guess he thinks we all forgot about his boy
love rants on alt.americanidol.boys. If you see any flag on Salty's
boat, best to just run him over and save some young boy from his
filth...