On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:00:21 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:49:10 -0400, Another John wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 06:45:47 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:42:38 -0400, Little John wrote:


The town hall meetings are being disrupted by those against the
current batch of bull****, unread policies. Those folks are both
Republicans *and* Democrats.

Funny, I heard Rush say the very same thing.

Good. Now expand a little more and you'll get a feel for what's
happening.

Thunder, do you think it's a *good* thing for unread bills to be passed?

Another Rip Van Winkle. Do you think Congressmen just now stopped
reading bills? Just because Obama's President?

Let me ask you a question.

Have you read it? It will affect you you know.

I'm up to page 783 and I have almost one legal pad full of notes and
comments on various sections and I'll probably have to start a second.
I also had to call our family attorney to have him explain various
legalese to me because there's some language in it that is absolutely
baffling.

How many Congress Critters can say that? I know our Representative
hasn't read it - he said so. And he's a lawyer.

I'll also mention that those who have actually taken the time to read
it are scared ****less about it - even Democrats are taking a WTF?
attitude to it.

I'm off to a discussion group at the moment - curiously enough, it's
about this very issue. Should be very interesting - lots of really
smart people on both sides of the aisle who respect each other's
opinions and can discuss and debate rationally.

"Wizard of Woodstock" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:00:21 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:49:10 -0400, Another John wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 06:45:47 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:42:38 -0400, Little John wrote:


The town hall meetings are being disrupted by those against the
current batch of bull****, unread policies. Those folks are both
Republicans *and* Democrats.

Funny, I heard Rush say the very same thing.

Good. Now expand a little more and you'll get a feel for what's
happening.

Thunder, do you think it's a *good* thing for unread bills to be passed?

Another Rip Van Winkle. Do you think Congressmen just now stopped
reading bills? Just because Obama's President?

Let me ask you a question.

Have you read it? It will affect you you know.

I'm up to page 783 and I have almost one legal pad full of notes and
comments on various sections and I'll probably have to start a second.
I also had to call our family attorney to have him explain various
legalese to me because there's some language in it that is absolutely
baffling.

How many Congress Critters can say that? I know our Representative
hasn't read it - he said so. And he's a lawyer.

I'll also mention that those who have actually taken the time to read
it are scared ****less about it - even Democrats are taking a WTF?
attitude to it.

I'm off to a discussion group at the moment - curiously enough, it's
about this very issue. Should be very interesting - lots of really
smart people on both sides of the aisle who respect each other's
opinions and can discuss and debate rationally.

I'm simple-minded enough to believe that our legislators should read and
understand legislation, especially those bills that have such momentous
impact. To say that staff does the grunt work is misleading when 1,000 page
bills are introduced and voted on in the same week. When did staff have time
to digest the material?

Perhaps if we required understanding by the legislators we would have far
less onerous laws.

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:21:59 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:



Let me ask you a question.

The Health Care Bill, H.R.3200? I have read a few parts of it, mainly to
get context for some quotes. But, frankly, I do not plan on reading the
full text.


Have you read it? It will affect you you know.

I'm up to page 783 and I have almost one legal pad full of notes and
comments on various sections and I'll probably have to start a second. I
also had to call our family attorney to have him explain various
legalese to me because there's some language in it that is absolutely
baffling.

Isn't all legalese baffling? I thought that was the reason it was
invented. ;-)


How many Congress Critters can say that? I know our Representative
hasn't read it - he said so. And he's a lawyer.

I'll also mention that those who have actually taken the time to read it
are scared ****less about it - even Democrats are taking a WTF? attitude
to it.

I'm off to a discussion group at the moment - curiously enough, it's
about this very issue. Should be very interesting - lots of really
smart people on both sides of the aisle who respect each other's
opinions and can discuss and debate rationally.

Perhaps, you can give us a synopsis of the discussion.

H the K wrote:
thunder wrote:
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:49:10 -0400, Another John wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 06:45:47 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:42:38 -0400, Little John wrote:


The town hall meetings are being disrupted by those against the
current batch of bull****, unread policies. Those folks are both
Republicans *and* Democrats.
Funny, I heard Rush say the very same thing.
Good. Now expand a little more and you'll get a feel for what's
happening.

Thunder, do you think it's a *good* thing for unread bills to be passed?

Another Rip Van Winkle. Do you think Congressmen just now stopped
reading bills? Just because Obama's President?


Most congressperson depend upon their staff to prepare a precis of
Bills, and to call out areas that individual congressperson might either
approve of or find objectionable. Anyone who thinks congresspersons read
through the mountain of Bills that are introduced in each session of
Congress is hopelessly naive. Some Bills are read from beginning to end
by many members but not the majority of them.

Since the start of the current congress, some 3500 Bills have been
introduced in the House and some 1500 have been introduced in the
Senate. The House has passed 500+ Bills, the Senate half that many or
maybe a little less. There are tons and tons of other paperwork going
around, including committee and subcommittee testimony.

I suppose if you are really simple-minded, you think your
representatives personally read every document that crosses their desks.

Lets make a deal. It's about money, power, and image. Congress critters,
Dem and Rep alike don't G A S what's in the language of bills. U.S.
politics stinks. From the big Kahuna to the lowly freshman representative.

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 00:13:47 -0400, "Lu Powell"
wrote:


"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
The One wants you to turn in your neighbors for the crime of doubting
his wisdom. If any of the express any possible negative attitudes
toward Obamacare then you should immediately turn them in. They are
actually serious about this. Will they send ACORN after people who
fail to conform? Maybe we will be sent to re-education camps. When
the govt starts telling us to denounce our neighbors, it is time to
buy ammunition, or at least to start asking Dems who they think they
work for.

Just to clarify before you-know-who tries to kill the messenger, see:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts...ubborn-Things/

The part that really galls me is the paragraph:

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there,
spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These
rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through
casual conversation. Since we can't keep track of all of them here at the
White House, we're asking for your help. If you get an email or see
something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it
to ."

"....casual conversation...." Holy ****! George Orwell, where are you now
that we need you?

Nothing said about naming names, just a request to be apprised of the
latest rumors.

Casady

Frogwatch wrote:
The One wants you to turn in your neighbors for the crime of doubting
his wisdom. If any of the express any possible negative attitudes
toward Obamacare then you should immediately turn them in. They are
actually serious about this. Will they send ACORN after people who
fail to conform? Maybe we will be sent to re-education camps. When
the govt starts telling us to denounce our neighbors, it is time to
buy ammunition, or at least to start asking Dems who they think they
work for.

You need to submit the names of all elected official who support the HR
3200.

Where is the ACLU when you need them.

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:32:34 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:21:59 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:



Let me ask you a question.

The Health Care Bill, H.R.3200? I have read a few parts of it, mainly to
get context for some quotes. But, frankly, I do not plan on reading the
full text.


Have you read it? It will affect you you know.

I'm up to page 783 and I have almost one legal pad full of notes and
comments on various sections and I'll probably have to start a second. I
also had to call our family attorney to have him explain various
legalese to me because there's some language in it that is absolutely
baffling.

Isn't all legalese baffling? I thought that was the reason it was
invented. ;-)


How many Congress Critters can say that? I know our Representative
hasn't read it - he said so. And he's a lawyer.

I'll also mention that those who have actually taken the time to read it
are scared ****less about it - even Democrats are taking a WTF? attitude
to it.

I'm off to a discussion group at the moment - curiously enough, it's
about this very issue. Should be very interesting - lots of really
smart people on both sides of the aisle who respect each other's
opinions and can discuss and debate rationally.

Perhaps, you can give us a synopsis of the discussion.

I suppose you've got unflagging trust in the 'synopses' you've heard
from Pelosi, Reid, and Obama?
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:43:13 -0400, Another John wrote:


I suppose you've got unflagging trust in the 'synopses' you've heard
from Pelosi, Reid, and Obama?

Who? I only listen to Rush.

thunder wrote:
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:43:13 -0400, Another John wrote:


I suppose you've got unflagging trust in the 'synopses' you've heard
from Pelosi, Reid, and Obama?

Who? I only listen to Rush.

You should add Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs. My guess is that if you are a
rightie and want to be a broadcaster, you have to bring a note from your
last psych exam that you are indeed insane.

H the K wrote:
thunder wrote:
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 06:54:22 -0400, Lu Powell wrote:


I have a dossier for all of them - mid term elections is 2020 and
quadrennial election in 2012, with a slew of tea parties from now on
till they change their ways or are gone.

At least those are fair tactics, but there are parts of the Republican
party that are coming across as very poor *losers*. I particularly
like the tactic of disrupting town hall meetings. I guess Obama
should learn from Bush, and institute an invitation only policy. The
gnashing of teeth begins. If you listen very closely, you might just
hear the sounds of Republicans in the wilderness... noooo, noooo.


I think an announcement ought to be made at the beginning of those town
hall meetings that anyone who behaves in a "disruptive" manner will be
ejected immediately.

The meetings are set up for dialogue between rational adults, usually
with a presented and an audience, and the audience is supposed to ask
questions and get answers during and after the presentation.

Unfortunately, mostly Republicans are engaging in planned and
coordinated activities to disrupt the meetings. Well, screw 'em. Toss
them out of the meetings as forcefully as they misbehave, and if they
resist, arrest them.

Civil protest and disobedience is fine in this country. When protestors
cannot behave in a civil fashion, it is time to toss them out on their
asses.

Completely brainwashed by the obamanation. I wonder if he ever talks to
some one in person or receives all his information from the omaba
network? Does he have any real people friends or are they all in his
facebook account?

Regardless of how obama tries to smear those who oppose to his plan,
there is a ground swell against these huge trillion dollar spending
frenzies. These people who have taken time of from work, are expressing
real concerns. They people who live in the area of the country that
elect 80% of the Senators and the majority of the house. This
opposition is not black or white, Democrat or Republican, it is every
person in this country who has worked hard to get where they are today.

Anyone who does not see what is going on should read what those behind
these programs have written. These books are so similar to Mein Kampf
that it is scary.

If they accept obama effort to collect the name and address of his
opposition, I wonder if in 5 to 10 years when these people start
disappearing if they will do what was done in Germany in the 1940's, and
pretend it is not happening.