Denounce your neighbors
 

Don White wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...
"Don White" wrote in message
...
"D" wrote in message
...
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
Another John wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 11:55:14 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"Another John" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:59:57 -0300, "Don White"
wrote:

"Lu Powell" wrote in message
...
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
The One wants you to turn in your neighbors for the crime of
doubting
his wisdom. If any of the express any possible negative
attitudes
toward Obamacare then you should immediately turn them in.
They are
actually serious about this. Will they send ACORN after people
who
fail to conform? Maybe we will be sent to re-education camps.
When
the govt starts telling us to denounce our neighbors, it is
time to
buy ammunition, or at least to start asking Dems who they think
they
work for.
Just to clarify before you-know-who tries to kill the messenger,
see:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts...ubborn-Things/

The part that really galls me is the paragraph:

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform
out there,
spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care.
These
rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or
through
casual conversation. Since we can't keep track of all of them
here at the
White House, we're asking for your help. If you get an email or
see
something on the web about health insurance reform that seems
fishy, send
it to ."

"....casual conversation...." Holy ****! George Orwell, where
are you now
that we need you?


Yawn.... didn't they call your actions 'treason' in wartime?

Don, the activities in question came from the government's web
site!

I'm beginning to have my doubts about whether you are pretending.

Maybe you should just get back on the tit.
--
John H

This is quite humorous.... you continually referring to "the
tit"....
Who else in here made a career of being firmly attached to Uncle
Sams "tit"...
even now in your twilight years.
Get Harry to tell you the difference.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary
thinking.
Funny, Don's sucking off the government tit, he was a public servant.
Didn't even really serve his company with honor like you did!
Yeah, but I bet he has a garage full of really cool gadgets and
tools....

Don has health insurance, and his health needs are being met.

You cannot say the same.
There aren't many Mexicans draining the cash out of their system.
Eliminate that and you have a lot more money to reduce health insurance
premiums for legal Americans.

What's with you clowns...everything is blamed on the Mexicans.
That Lt Colonel sure does indoctrinate his motley troops.

How about some numbers on the cost of illegal immigration? I will give
you a link. Banmiller is a very respected commentator on the local TV.
Liberal TV station also.


What the $%^%$!
Aren't you the guy who picks up these illegal day workers in those
make-shift lines behind the Home Depot?




Yeah, but the adult illegals Bilious used to hire now demand an hourly
rate equal to have the federal minimum wage, so our boy Bill has to
scout the playgrounds to hire the kids of illegals. They work for less.

Denounce your neighbors
 

H the K wrote:
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:

Please, Tom, save your b.s. for the weak-minded "believers" here, eh?
It is patently obvious the Republicans are engaged in an organized
campaign to disrupt town hall meetings discussing health care issues.

Great spin Harry. Too bad it isn't true. Just like the tea parties the
bi-partisan uprising surrounding health care is a grass roots genuine
one and not a David Axelrod astro-turf manufactured one.

Videos taken at these meetings are all over the news, bertie. Maybe not
on fox, though, eh?

Everyone knows that the violence at the town halls and the tea parties
started when the union thugs and Democrat party thugs started showing
up. Again, nice try at spinning but the public record does not support
you position.

I appreciate that many Americans are concerned. Some are going to
town hall meetings to get answers. Sadly, at some of those meetings,
Republi-thugs are disrupting the meetings.

The Community Organizer and Chief Barack Hussein Obama has unleashed
the his corps of brown ****s, known as ACORN, and the true thugs will
be out in force now. As we have already seen ACORN will be packing the
town hall meetings before the doors are "opened" to the public only to
find that the town hall is already at capacity.

Good by 1st amendment.

Oh...my personal health care insurance has no connection with my
self-employed status. Sorry. :)

We know you have been leeching off of a union that you haven't
actually worked for in 40 years. It is too bad they haven't figured
out that you are only a member to reap the benefits from those poor
working stiffs.

You know nothing of the kind. Perhaps if you had gone to college instead
of into the marines, your mind might have been trained.

Sure I do you have stated that your affiliation with the union was so
that you could take advantage of their benefits. You haven't done a days
worth of physical labor in 40 years either.

College is over rated.

Denounce your neighbors
 

Lu Powell wrote:

"JustWait" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 07:32:34 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:21:59 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
I'm off to a discussion group at the moment - curiously enough, it's
about this very issue. Should be very interesting - lots of really
smart people on both sides of the aisle who respect each other's
opinions and can discuss and debate rationally.

Perhaps, you can give us a synopsis of the discussion.

It was interesting to say the least.

What I found most interesting is that nobody, other than myself and
two otehr people there - one a tax accountant, the other a local
doctor, had actually attempted to read the bill.

I left after the congressional staffer for my rep, the AARP
representative and two other people (I don't remember who they worked
for - Dodd or Lieberman) said that they couldn't answer specific
questions about the bill itself - they could only discuss "policy
issues" related to the health care bill.

I did manage to get a question in, but the answer was as stated above
- they would not and could not answer specific line item questions
about the bill - only about the genral over view of the bill and how
it would affect Americans.

And we found out that our Rep is not going to be addressing health
care in individual forums but will be conducting an "open" town hall
conference call. WTF?

These "phone" (phony) town halls are becoming pretty popular... It is a
whole lot easier to control the questions and set them up that way. The
Health Care Reform bill is a farce, and everyone knows it.

~~ sigh ~~

It was interesting as I was chatting with some of my former
counterparts in town government that, in general, this is not being
very well received even among Democrats.

Should be an interesting August.



--
Wafa free since 2009

Notice how WAFA and others like him always attack the messengers, never
the message. They never offer their own points in support of a
proposition. Losers all.


WAFA and his ilk don't care about the content of the bill. All they care
about is putting another 1 in the W column. To them it is a game, a
competition, a sport and reality has no place in what they do.

When Congress exempts itself from the health care reform you know it is
a piece of crap.

Denounce your neighbors
 

H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 05:27:26 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:38:53 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:


I left after the congressional staffer for my rep, the AARP
representative and two other people (I don't remember who they worked
for - Dodd or Lieberman) said that they couldn't answer specific
questions about the bill itself - they could only discuss "policy
issues" related to the health care bill.
That would seem to be understandable. The bill is not in it's final
form. Plus, as you say, there is a very good chance they haven't
read it in it's entirety.
I'm sorry my friend, but it's not understandable.

I'm taking the time to read it, understand it and get specifics,
directly from the bill, ask questions and participate as a citizen. I
would expect our political leadership to do the same.

I might also point out that informed, concerned citizens are being
called a "mob" for participating in Democracy - as is my right, your
right and everyone's right.

I have a feeling that this is only the begining of the push back.

It's about time.

And you have known liars like Pelosi (remember the CIA issue which has
been squashed) saying she is seeing swasticka's at these meetings and
of course that is bad. Fact is, nobody can find a picture of the
health care oppositition bearing swasticka's at any of these meetings.
However the news showed dozens of pictures of them at anti bush
rallies, hitler mustaches, etc... I guess it's only ok if it's brown
shirts like ACORN, code pink, and Union officials..

Oh, and they are the only ones allowed to enjoy freedom of speech..
it's getting pretty bad..



Freedom of speech at a town hall meeting means you listen to the
presenter, you ask questions, you get answers, and you are courteous to
your fellow citizens who are there to ask questions, get answers, and
learn from the dialogues.

Of course, you and your kind fear that sort of dialogue.

It sucks to be on the receiving end of the people's dissatisfaction.

Denounce your neighbors
 

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 06:13:23 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:39:41 -0400, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:


This, however, ain't the answer. Growing health care from 18% to 30% of
GDP isn't sound either.

Want an example? My daughter treat a lot of Medicare/Medicade, Plan B
people along with her regular patient load.

She and her partner have to hire what is called a "coder" - Medical
Coding Specialist - just to fill out the paperwork properly to send in
for reimbursement which takes it's sweet time getting back to her - as
much as six to eight months in general and it's just about covers her
expenses - as a rule.

At least she does get paid. Have you ever asked her about dealing with
private insurers? If she's like most doctors I know, she won't have
anything good to say about them, either. I have a sister that worked in
one of the larger, well known, health insurers, until she couldn't deal
with the ethical strain. The standard practice was to deny, deny, deny,
approve. The company figured that at every denial, a percentage of
clients would stop, saving the company $$$. For someone dealing with an
illness, or a loved ones illness, fighting an insurer is stress that is
not needed.

$85,000/yr for a Medical Coding Specialist.

Her practice is her, her partner (a surgeon), an NP and a PA. Four
direct care providers supported by 2 nurses, 4 clerks, an office manager
and this coding specialist.

That's what's broken about health care.

You know, Medicare's overhead is @ 3%. That compares quite favorably
with the 15-25% of the typical HMO. Personally, I haven't seen anything
overly onerous in H.R. 3200. What exactly are your concerns about it?

When my wife was in the hospital I spent hours on the phone when I
started getting bills from providers that should have been covered by
my private insurance. Blue Cross Illinois - a major HMO.
Some were "coding errors." Who said they were coding errors?
Why, Blue Cross Illinois of course.
BTW, most of time on the phone was with a company salaried insurance
"ombudsman." I suspect she made a good salary.
There were other stalling tactics beyond coding errors.
The private bureaucracies passing the buck were legion, and made any
gov office, even the DMV, look like a model of efficiency.
If it hadn't been for the company woman handling most of it I could
have gone postal.
Standardization and computerization of coding should eliminate this
bull**** right away. Should be part of any plan of reform, however it
goes.

--Vic

Denounce your neighbors
 

thunder wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:41:02 -0400, Yogi of Woodstock wrote:


That would seem to be understandable. The bill is not in it's final
form. Plus, as you say, there is a very good chance they haven't read
it in it's entirety.
I'm sorry my friend, but it's not understandable.

I'm taking the time to read it, understand it and get specifics,
directly from the bill, ask questions and participate as a citizen. I
would expect our political leadership to do the same.

I respect your ambition. You have considerable reading ahead of you.
Once you get through the House bill, there will be the Senate bill, then
the reconciliation bill, ...

I might also point out that informed, concerned citizens are being
called a "mob" for participating in Democracy - as is my right, your
right and everyone's right.

Most people understand the differences between concerned citizens, and
mobs. Mobs are disruptive. But hey, whatever floats your boat. I'm
sure our democracy will survive.

I have a feeling that this is only the begining of the push back.

It's about time.

Maybe, but on health care, it's reaching critical mass, rapidly becoming
20%GDP. That is unsustainable. Health care in this country is broken,
and something will be done about it. The status quo can not continue.

Congress is not addressing the causes of the increase in health care
costs. The health insurance issue is secondary or better it is tertiary.

If Congress succeeds in taking over health care they way the will manage
the increase in costs is to ration health care. The major drug companies
will move off shore and they will ignore the US market due to the fact
that they will have a limited ability to profit. I hope you like waiting
for drugs to be available as generics.

What is the biggest cost component in the delivery of health care? What
is the second biggest cost component in the delivery of health care? Put
this list together with the top 20 cost components in the delivery of
health care and you will have a list of areas to try and reduce the
costs of delivering of health care. Health insurance is not a cost
component in the delivery of health, don't try and put it on the list,
it is a method of payment.

Denounce your neighbors
 

Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:31:32 -0500, thunder
wrote:

Maybe, but on health care, it's reaching critical mass, rapidly becoming
20%GDP. That is unsustainable. Health care in this country is broken,
and something will be done about it. The status quo can not continue.

I agree with you - in complete agreement actually.

This, however, ain't the answer. Growing health care from 18% to 30%
of GDP isn't sound either.

Want an example? My daughter treat a lot of Medicare/Medicade, Plan B
people along with her regular patient load.

She and her partner have to hire what is called a "coder" - Medical
Coding Specialist - just to fill out the paperwork properly to send in
for reimbursement which takes it's sweet time getting back to her - as
much as six to eight months in general and it's just about covers her
expenses - as a rule.

$85,000/yr for a Medical Coding Specialist.

Her practice is her, her partner (a surgeon), an NP and a PA. Four
direct care providers supported by 2 nurses, 4 clerks, an office
manager and this coding specialist.

That's what's broken about health care.

Just like I said earlier, the cost of health care delivery is the problem.

Denounce your neighbors
 

D.Duck wrote:
On 8/7/2009 8:39 PM, Wizard of Woodstock wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:31:32 -0500,
wrote:

Maybe, but on health care, it's reaching critical mass, rapidly becoming
20%GDP. That is unsustainable. Health care in this country is broken,
and something will be done about it. The status quo can not continue.

I agree with you - in complete agreement actually.

This, however, ain't the answer. Growing health care from 18% to 30%
of GDP isn't sound either.

Want an example? My daughter treat a lot of Medicare/Medicade, Plan B
people along with her regular patient load.

She and her partner have to hire what is called a "coder" - Medical
Coding Specialist - just to fill out the paperwork properly to send in
for reimbursement which takes it's sweet time getting back to her - as
much as six to eight months in general and it's just about covers her
expenses - as a rule.

$85,000/yr for a Medical Coding Specialist.

Her practice is her, her partner (a surgeon), an NP and a PA. Four
direct care providers supported by 2 nurses, 4 clerks, an office
manager and this coding specialist.

That's what's broken about health care.


$85K/year is way above the average for a coding specialist.

That could be the fully burdened rate.

Denounce your neighbors
 

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:46:59 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Standardization and computerization of coding should eliminate this
bull**** right away. Should be part of any plan of reform, however it
goes.

Your assuming that the insurance companies want to fix it.
Unfortunately there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that they
regard the delays as a business opportunity.

Denounce your neighbors
 

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 13:35:15 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:46:59 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Standardization and computerization of coding should eliminate this
bull**** right away. Should be part of any plan of reform, however it
goes.

Your assuming that the insurance companies want to fix it.
Unfortunately there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that they
regard the delays as a business opportunity.

No, I don't assume that. My post made pretty clear I was skeptical
about the so-called coding errors.
Reform is also unwanted by the major providers.
The scumbag doing the scare tactic ads opposing reform led the company
that was fined $1.5 billion by the gov for medicare fraud.
Yes, $1.5 billion. Might be a record there.
I have no illusions about the business end.

--Vic