wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:06:58 -0400, H the K
wrote:

"Stabilization" nonsense is especially true for poor people suffering
from serious mental health issues or drug addiction. A hospital with
facilities for treating either (and not all hospitals do), might take a
suicidal person in for a couple of days and then, if that person says he
is not feeling like killing himself at that moment, he is discharged. Of
course, the next day he might feel suicidal again, and kill himself.

Statistically
Truly "suicidal" people end up killing themselves at about the same
rate, no matter how much "treatment" they get. About all "treatment"
does is separate "gestures" from "attempts" and treat those who make
gestures, with no intent of actually killing themselves.


I had no idea you were an accomplished mental health researcher. So
what's your point...just leave the potential suicides by the side of the
road?

wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:34:54 -0400, H K
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 16:59:01 -0400, Lil' John
wrote:

You won't miss the government run alcohol stores in New Hampshire if
you're on I-95. Both exits have the Alcohol Store right on the Exit
signs. It's unreal.
--
I know about NH. Last year we were looking for THE package store on
Conway.
I am used to Florida where they sell liquor at Walgreens and southern
Md where they will STILL sell you a mixed drink at the drive through.
(a fountain drink with ice and a miniature). If they know you they
will mix it in the window.

I was astonished when we lived to florida to see drive through windows
at the larger liquor stores. These and the "gentlemen's clubs" in Jax
were the constant targets of the religious nutcases. There was a
successfully titty bar on Blanding Boulevard and there were almost
always "church people" across the street carrying picket signs
protesting it. They brought their kids with them. By now, those kids
probably are patronizing the titty bar, if it is still there.

The drive thrus are gone in SW Florida. They still have one right up
the road from my niece in Ridge Md.


Once you get to the end of Three Notch Road, you've gone back in time.
Way back. It's very country...even for southern southern Maryland.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:30:15 -0400, H the K
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with
your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento,
Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go to the
local
hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance. Happens to be free
to
everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk in doctors office.
There
were people there with hurting ankle, etc. Had a Doctor, nurse & aid
and
clerk. No big tests, no major equipment. If you needed more, they
sent you
to the hospital, where I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup
than our
E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.


I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests
or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have
passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their
educations during their professional life.




Government medicine will never be equal to what Bill Gates gets. If we
actually try to make that true we will certainly be broke very
quickly. That is the biggest flaw in this program. .

Steve Jobs seemed to have no problem getting a new liver. As one that was
*almost* placed on the liver transplant list I do know a little about how
UNOS works.

Calif Bill wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go
to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance. Happens
to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk in doctors
office. There were people there with hurting ankle, etc. Had a Doctor,
nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major equipment. If you needed
more, they sent you to the hospital, where I would have had to pay.
Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.
I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.

And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical issue.
Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests or give
me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have passed
board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their educations
during their professional life.





You may know about Maryland gun laws, but you know little about the medical
world. Rare is it an RN taking blood for your tests. They are normally a
phlebotomist. 4-8 months course.



Sorry, the nurses at my doctor's office are RN's or Nurse Practitioners.
Says so on their badges, on the office directories, on the diplomas
hanging on the walls of the various offices.

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go
to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance. Happens
to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk in doctors
office. There were people there with hurting ankle, etc. Had a Doctor,
nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major equipment. If you needed
more, they sent you to the hospital, where I would have had to pay.
Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.

I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical issue.
Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests or give
me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have passed
board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their educations
during their professional life.





You may know about Maryland gun laws, but you know little about the medical
world. Rare is it an RN taking blood for your tests. They are normally a
phlebotomist. 4-8 months course.

"H the K" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:06:58 -0400, H the K
wrote:

"Stabilization" nonsense is especially true for poor people suffering
from serious mental health issues or drug addiction. A hospital with
facilities for treating either (and not all hospitals do), might take a
suicidal person in for a couple of days and then, if that person says he
is not feeling like killing himself at that moment, he is discharged. Of
course, the next day he might feel suicidal again, and kill himself.

Statistically Truly "suicidal" people end up killing themselves at about
the same
rate, no matter how much "treatment" they get. About all "treatment"
does is separate "gestures" from "attempts" and treat those who make
gestures, with no intent of actually killing themselves.


I had no idea you were an accomplished mental health researcher. So what's
your point...just leave the potential suicides by the side of the road?

Put a diving board on the high bridge. So they land in a designated area.

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
Calif Bill wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack

wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with
your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a
long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance,
so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if
you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go
to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance.
Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk
in doctors office. There were people there with hurting ankle, etc.
Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major
equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to the hospital, where I
would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and Urgent
Care clinics.
I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.

And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests
or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have
passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their
educations during their professional life.





You may know about Maryland gun laws, but you know little about the
medical world. Rare is it an RN taking blood for your tests. They are
normally a phlebotomist. 4-8 months course.

Sorry, the nurses at my doctor's office are RN's or Nurse Practitioners.
Says so on their badges, on the office directories, on the diplomas
hanging on the walls of the various offices.



And they send you to Quest Diagnostics to get the blood tests, etc.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 17:06:00 -0400, H the K wrote:

thunder wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 14:03:02 -0400, BAR wrote:


I thought they weren't allowed to deny you care if you couldn't or
wouldn't pay for it.

Yeah, but what is care? It may vary by state, but I believe they only
have to stabilize you.


That is correct...if that.

It's also true that many hospitals go beyond the requirement, regardless
of the cost. Still, I wouldn't want to be in an emergency room without
insurance. Hell, even with insurance, a major sickness is a leading
cause of personal bankruptcy.

"thunder" wrote in message
t...

It's also true that many hospitals go beyond the requirement, regardless
of the cost. Still, I wouldn't want to be in an emergency room without
insurance. Hell, even with insurance, a major sickness is a leading
cause of personal bankruptcy.

You've touched on the forbidden facet of health care.
At what point is someone's life worth destroying the lives of loved ones by
putting them in hopeless debt or bankrupcy?

Eisboch

Calif Bill wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
Calif Bill wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack

wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with
your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a
long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance,
so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if
you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go
to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance.
Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk
in doctors office. There were people there with hurting ankle, etc.
Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major
equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to the hospital, where I
would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and Urgent
Care clinics.
I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.
And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests
or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have
passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their
educations during their professional life.




You may know about Maryland gun laws, but you know little about the
medical world. Rare is it an RN taking blood for your tests. They are
normally a phlebotomist. 4-8 months course.
Sorry, the nurses at my doctor's office are RN's or Nurse Practitioners.
Says so on their badges, on the office directories, on the diplomas
hanging on the walls of the various offices.



And they send you to Quest Diagnostics to get the blood tests, etc.



They don't send me anywhere for blood tests; the nurses draw the blood.
I have no idea who does their blood testing for them, though. You and
BAR don't seem to get much right...right-wingedness?