On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:40:49 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

On Jul 18, 9:58Â*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:55:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:





"Jack" wrote in message
...

Reformers' Claims Just Don't Add Up
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, July 17, 2009 4:20 PM PT

• America has a health care crisis.

---------------------------------

America does not have a health care crisis.

America has a welfare crisis.

My wife pays a bit over 25% of her gross salary for our insurance.
Quite a "tax" there, huh?
But we have other income.
Her workmates make less than her, and have more people to insure.
Guess what they pay for insurance?
Nothing.
They go to the emergency room.
For everything.
Can't afford anything else.
I wonder who pays for those e-room services.
Neat system, eh?

--Vic

Sounds like you need to get a job with some benefits, and rescue your
wife from having to support you and from providing you with your own
health care.

Why would I do that? I like retirement, and I'm doing just fine.
And so is she.
Sounds like you should leave the sermons to Father Ryan.
You're not good at it.

--Vic

On Jul 18, 10:52*pm, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:40:49 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:



On Jul 18, 9:58*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:55:56 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"Jack" wrote in message
....

Reformers' Claims Just Don't Add Up
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, July 17, 2009 4:20 PM PT

• America has a health care crisis.

---------------------------------

America does not have a health care crisis.

America has a welfare crisis.

My wife pays a bit over 25% of her gross salary for our insurance.
Quite a "tax" there, huh?
But we have other income.
Her workmates make less than her, and have more people to insure.
Guess what they pay for insurance?
Nothing.
They go to the emergency room.
For everything.
Can't afford anything else.
I wonder who pays for those e-room services.
Neat system, eh?

--Vic

Sounds like you need to get a job with some benefits, and rescue your
wife from having to support you and from providing you with your own
health care.

Why would I do that? *I like retirement, and I'm doing just fine.
And so is she.
Sounds like you should leave the sermons to Father Ryan.
You're not good at it.

--Vic

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Preach on.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:


Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:


Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic

Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in Sorrento,
Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go to the local
hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance. Happens to be free to
everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk in doctors office. There
were people there with hurting ankle, etc. Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and
clerk. No big tests, no major equipment. If you needed more, they sent you
to the hospital, where I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than our
E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.

wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in Sorrento,
Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go to the local
hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance. Happens to be free to
everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk in doctors office. There
were people there with hurting ankle, etc. Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and
clerk. No big tests, no major equipment. If you needed more, they sent you
to the hospital, where I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than our
E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.


I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests
or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have
passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their
educations during their professional life.

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go
to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance. Happens
to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk in doctors
office. There were people there with hurting ankle, etc. Had a Doctor,
nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major equipment. If you needed
more, they sent you to the hospital, where I would have had to pay.
Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.

I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical issue.
Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests or give
me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have passed
board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their educations
during their professional life.





You may know about Maryland gun laws, but you know little about the medical
world. Rare is it an RN taking blood for your tests. They are normally a
phlebotomist. 4-8 months course.

Calif Bill wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go
to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance. Happens
to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk in doctors
office. There were people there with hurting ankle, etc. Had a Doctor,
nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major equipment. If you needed
more, they sent you to the hospital, where I would have had to pay.
Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.
I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.

And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical issue.
Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests or give
me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have passed
board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their educations
during their professional life.





You may know about Maryland gun laws, but you know little about the medical
world. Rare is it an RN taking blood for your tests. They are normally a
phlebotomist. 4-8 months course.



Sorry, the nurses at my doctor's office are RN's or Nurse Practitioners.
Says so on their badges, on the office directories, on the diplomas
hanging on the walls of the various offices.

H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to
go to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance.
Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk
in doctors office. There were people there with hurting ankle, etc.
Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major
equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to the hospital, where
I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and
Urgent Care clinics.

I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

Is it equality of opportunity or equality of outcomes that drives you
Harry?

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests
or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have
passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their
educations during their professional life.

RN's are not required to have a college degree. Medical corpsman do not
have college degrees nor do Army medics. Most EMTs and Phlebotomists do
not have college degrees either. Why are you shunning highly trained,
certified and licensed working stiffs? Hell some of them are in unions.
Nice of you to screw over the union guys you elitist snob.

I have a sister who started out as an LPN, became an RN, received her
BSN and now is an NP.

BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with
your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to
go to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance.
Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a
walk in doctors office. There were people there with hurting ankle,
etc. Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major
equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to the hospital, where
I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and
Urgent Care clinics.

I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

Is it equality of opportunity or equality of outcomes that drives you
Harry?

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for
tests or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses
who have passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue
their educations during their professional life.

RN's are not required to have a college degree. Medical corpsman do not
have college degrees nor do Army medics. Most EMTs and Phlebotomists do
not have college degrees either. Why are you shunning highly trained,
certified and licensed working stiffs? Hell some of them are in unions.
Nice of you to screw over the union guys you elitist snob.

I have a sister who started out as an LPN, became an RN, received her
BSN and now is an NP.


I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's
officesare college grads who have passed exams and are licensed. That's
who the doctors at our PPO hire.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:30:15 -0400, H the K
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with
your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance, so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento,
Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go to the
local
hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance. Happens to be free
to
everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk in doctors office.
There
were people there with hurting ankle, etc. Had a Doctor, nurse & aid
and
clerk. No big tests, no major equipment. If you needed more, they
sent you
to the hospital, where I would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup
than our
E rooms and Urgent Care clinics.


I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests
or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have
passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their
educations during their professional life.




Government medicine will never be equal to what Bill Gates gets. If we
actually try to make that true we will certainly be broke very
quickly. That is the biggest flaw in this program. .

Steve Jobs seemed to have no problem getting a new liver. As one that was
*almost* placed on the liver transplant list I do know a little about how
UNOS works.