"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...

Whoa, who woulda thunk that dead Reagan coulda tricked us inta
spending that nearly 2 trillion under Obama. I spose that just shows
how great Reagan was to force Obama to spend all that money and
accomplish nothing.
------------------------------------

The most significant current factor affecting the US economy/recovery right
now in both business and in private spending habits is the incredible,
unfathomable amount of spending and debt that this administration is willing
to commit to. It's the same, irresponible spending on credit philosophy
that got us into the situation we are in in the first place, except at a
grand, federal level and with inadequate income to pay the bills.

Our liberal social reformers can try to justify it all they want. The fact
is the country can simply not afford it. Rational and economically
thoughtful people understand this and are very concerned.

Business is the lifeblood of this country as we know it. Without incentives
for it to grow and prosper, the USA will choke to death in social program
debt.

Laws should be enforced to prevent scams and illegal business activities,
but the only way to return this country to prosperity is to provide
incentives for businesses to grow. Instead, and as witnessed here by the
comments of our liberal anti-corporation friends, the "enlightened"
philosophy and "in thing' now is to crucify all business or corporate
entities. It's like ****ing in your own water supply.

Eisboch

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 21:55:35 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:49:34 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Jul 2, 10:42 pm, HK wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
On Jul 2, 10:18 pm, HK wrote:
Jack wrote:
On Jul 2, 10:04 pm, HK wrote:
jps wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:34:31 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:59:31 -0700, jps
wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:28:07 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:
9.5% unemployment, wow, Bozoma told us it wouldnt get that bad
with
his stimulus and all. Dont feel so bad, now you can not only be
unemployed but $30,000 more in debt than you were under Bush.
You
seen any stimulus, SUCKER.
The reality is that those who produce the new jobs are all on
strike
for fear of being punished by Bozoma for having employees so
thy are
laying em off as fast as they can. It's gonna be 15% by the end
of
the year and 20% by this time next year. Is Bozoma gonna pay
your
mortgage? Hey, if you act nice like a good house slave he might
send
you a check for a couple of bucks, you know enough to buy a
beer while
he shovels trillions into his buddies pockets.
Good Job Dems.
Gone 'round the bend, eh? I hope you enjoy eating all this
bull****
when it doesn't come true.
Rising unemployment is inevitable. But it's the globalist Wall
Streeters to blame, not Obama. Clinton and Bush II are the major
culprits.
From what I see, the country has been supported by rising debt,
inflated real estate (more debt with 2nd, 3rd mortgages) and
inflated
Wall Street equity prices for roughly 15 years.
That debt based on bubbles didn't stop real wages from going
down,
but kept food on the table and enough toys to satisfy the
populace.
Somewhat an offset for much of the pain felt by the wholesale
exportation of American manufacturing, IT and engineering during
that
period. Service jobs did well enough in a false economy, as the
false
cash - derived from debt and bubbles - was available.
Forget about your financial future, enjoy your toys and poorly
paid
illegals serving you food, cleaning your house, and cutting your
grass. That was the attitude I saw.
That exportation of jobs started earlier, but accelerated greatly
during Clinton and Bush II.
The bubbles have burst, the debt is due, but the jobs have gone
away.
What to do?
That's for Obama to figure out.
He'll have nowhere to hide from his responsibilities.
The only way out now is to tax the well-off to keep the hoi poloi
calm, or start incentivizing the production of consumer goods
with
money and tariffs. Probably need a combination of both.
Wealth doesn't trickle down. It works it's way up through osmosis
from those producing the goods we use.
That's how I see it, having been on both the production end and
the
service end throughout my life.
But I'm not an economist, just a guy next to the cracker barrel.
So what I say don't really matter except to me.
--Vic
Completely agree. That Obama is being blamed for it while trying
to
do something about it is just plain dishonest.
I'm no fan of Clinton's global economy. Our society and the middle
class is being flushed down the toilet while the corporations take
advantage of whatever country's tax laws are the most advantageous
and
labor rates the lowest.
Scummy business that's going to ruin this country.
Scummy business already has ruined this country.
The business called "unions".
What's funny is that you really don't get it. It's the business
practices since the Reagan mis-Administration that have done us in,
the
unbridled greed of corporations and financial services companies that
has looted this country of its assets. Blaming that on the small
percentage of the workforce that is unionized just demonstrates your
simplemindedness.

Whoa, who woulda thunk that dead Reagan coulda tricked us inta
spending that nearly 2 trillion under Obama. I spose that just shows
how great Reagan was to force Obama to spend all that money and
accomplish nothing.

Obama didn't create a failed economy...he inherited it.

HK you just keep repeating that mantra while standing in the
unemployment line.

While unemployment may not have reached its ultimate height, we will
recover. The question is whether we recover from this smart or
stupid.

If we don't reinvest in America and find a way to build and sell goods
and services to our own citizens, following generations will be
screwed.

Investing in America, or funding 9000 earmarks in a foolish spending spree?
Obama and company are not investing in America!


How's that 3 trillion investment in Iraq going? Pretty good?

"HK" wrote in message
...


Obama didn't create a failed economy...he inherited it.

That excuse is only good for so long, and it's getting dated.
Every new administration inherits problems and issues and they deserve to be
judged and held accountable on how they respond to them.

Obama had many good qualities as a global representative of the US compared
to the previous administration, but the shine and glitter is becoming
tarnished, especially in his domestic economic policies. His solution to
all ills is to promise to throw more money at them. Problem is, there's no
money to be thrown and the public, even a growing number of those who were
mesmerized by the hope and change rhetoric are waking up and realizing it.
His community organizer background is proving to be naive, wishful thinking
in the real world of global politics and economics.

Nice guy and all, but he's going to get his clock cleaned if he doesn't
wake up.


Eisboch

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...


Investing in America, or funding 9000 earmarks in a foolish spending
spree? Obama and company are not investing in America!


Exactly right and the public is waking up to this.

I don't blame Obama completely. I primarily blame the bunch of crooked
jerks in Congress.
Obama's guilt is not reading them the riot act and insuring good use and
application of stimulus spending. Instead, he gave them a new, flashy
credit card with an unlimited credit line.

Eisboch

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 21:55:35 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:49:34 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Jul 2, 10:42 pm, HK wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
On Jul 2, 10:18 pm, HK wrote:
Jack wrote:
On Jul 2, 10:04 pm, HK wrote:
jps wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:34:31 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:59:31 -0700, jps
wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:28:07 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:
9.5% unemployment, wow, Bozoma told us it wouldnt get that
bad
with
his stimulus and all. Dont feel so bad, now you can not only
be
unemployed but $30,000 more in debt than you were under Bush.
You
seen any stimulus, SUCKER.
The reality is that those who produce the new jobs are all on
strike
for fear of being punished by Bozoma for having employees so
thy are
laying em off as fast as they can. It's gonna be 15% by the
end
of
the year and 20% by this time next year. Is Bozoma gonna pay
your
mortgage? Hey, if you act nice like a good house slave he
might
send
you a check for a couple of bucks, you know enough to buy a
beer while
he shovels trillions into his buddies pockets.
Good Job Dems.
Gone 'round the bend, eh? I hope you enjoy eating all this
bull****
when it doesn't come true.
Rising unemployment is inevitable. But it's the globalist Wall
Streeters to blame, not Obama. Clinton and Bush II are the
major
culprits.
From what I see, the country has been supported by rising debt,
inflated real estate (more debt with 2nd, 3rd mortgages) and
inflated
Wall Street equity prices for roughly 15 years.
That debt based on bubbles didn't stop real wages from going
down,
but kept food on the table and enough toys to satisfy the
populace.
Somewhat an offset for much of the pain felt by the wholesale
exportation of American manufacturing, IT and engineering
during
that
period. Service jobs did well enough in a false economy, as the
false
cash - derived from debt and bubbles - was available.
Forget about your financial future, enjoy your toys and poorly
paid
illegals serving you food, cleaning your house, and cutting
your
grass. That was the attitude I saw.
That exportation of jobs started earlier, but accelerated
greatly
during Clinton and Bush II.
The bubbles have burst, the debt is due, but the jobs have gone
away.
What to do?
That's for Obama to figure out.
He'll have nowhere to hide from his responsibilities.
The only way out now is to tax the well-off to keep the hoi
poloi
calm, or start incentivizing the production of consumer goods
with
money and tariffs. Probably need a combination of both.
Wealth doesn't trickle down. It works it's way up through
osmosis
from those producing the goods we use.
That's how I see it, having been on both the production end and
the
service end throughout my life.
But I'm not an economist, just a guy next to the cracker
barrel.
So what I say don't really matter except to me.
--Vic
Completely agree. That Obama is being blamed for it while trying
to
do something about it is just plain dishonest.
I'm no fan of Clinton's global economy. Our society and the
middle
class is being flushed down the toilet while the corporations
take
advantage of whatever country's tax laws are the most
advantageous
and
labor rates the lowest.
Scummy business that's going to ruin this country.
Scummy business already has ruined this country.
The business called "unions".
What's funny is that you really don't get it. It's the business
practices since the Reagan mis-Administration that have done us in,
the
unbridled greed of corporations and financial services companies
that
has looted this country of its assets. Blaming that on the small
percentage of the workforce that is unionized just demonstrates
your
simplemindedness.

Whoa, who woulda thunk that dead Reagan coulda tricked us inta
spending that nearly 2 trillion under Obama. I spose that just shows
how great Reagan was to force Obama to spend all that money and
accomplish nothing.

Obama didn't create a failed economy...he inherited it.

HK you just keep repeating that mantra while standing in the
unemployment line.

While unemployment may not have reached its ultimate height, we will
recover. The question is whether we recover from this smart or
stupid.

If we don't reinvest in America and find a way to build and sell goods
and services to our own citizens, following generations will be
screwed.

Investing in America, or funding 9000 earmarks in a foolish spending
spree?
Obama and company are not investing in America!


How's that 3 trillion investment in Iraq going? Pretty good?

It sucks. We do not have 3 trillion to waste in Iraq or anywhere else.
Why is the current powers spending 4 trillion plus we do not have and can
not afford?

HK wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
On Jul 2, 10:18 pm, HK wrote:
Jack wrote:
On Jul 2, 10:04 pm, HK wrote:
jps wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:34:31 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:59:31 -0700, jps wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:28:07 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:
9.5% unemployment, wow, Bozoma told us it wouldnt get that bad
with
his stimulus and all. Dont feel so bad, now you can not only be
unemployed but $30,000 more in debt than you were under Bush. You
seen any stimulus, SUCKER.
The reality is that those who produce the new jobs are all on
strike
for fear of being punished by Bozoma for having employees so
thy are
laying em off as fast as they can. It's gonna be 15% by the
end of
the year and 20% by this time next year. Is Bozoma gonna pay your
mortgage? Hey, if you act nice like a good house slave he
might send
you a check for a couple of bucks, you know enough to buy a
beer while
he shovels trillions into his buddies pockets.
Good Job Dems.
Gone 'round the bend, eh? I hope you enjoy eating all this
bull****
when it doesn't come true.
Rising unemployment is inevitable. But it's the globalist Wall
Streeters to blame, not Obama. Clinton and Bush II are the major
culprits.
From what I see, the country has been supported by rising debt,
inflated real estate (more debt with 2nd, 3rd mortgages) and
inflated
Wall Street equity prices for roughly 15 years.
That debt based on bubbles didn't stop real wages from going down,
but kept food on the table and enough toys to satisfy the populace.
Somewhat an offset for much of the pain felt by the wholesale
exportation of American manufacturing, IT and engineering during
that
period. Service jobs did well enough in a false economy, as the
false
cash - derived from debt and bubbles - was available.
Forget about your financial future, enjoy your toys and poorly paid
illegals serving you food, cleaning your house, and cutting your
grass. That was the attitude I saw.
That exportation of jobs started earlier, but accelerated greatly
during Clinton and Bush II.
The bubbles have burst, the debt is due, but the jobs have gone
away.
What to do?
That's for Obama to figure out.
He'll have nowhere to hide from his responsibilities.
The only way out now is to tax the well-off to keep the hoi poloi
calm, or start incentivizing the production of consumer goods with
money and tariffs. Probably need a combination of both.
Wealth doesn't trickle down. It works it's way up through osmosis
from those producing the goods we use.
That's how I see it, having been on both the production end and the
service end throughout my life.
But I'm not an economist, just a guy next to the cracker barrel.
So what I say don't really matter except to me.
--Vic
Completely agree. That Obama is being blamed for it while trying to
do something about it is just plain dishonest.
I'm no fan of Clinton's global economy. Our society and the middle
class is being flushed down the toilet while the corporations take
advantage of whatever country's tax laws are the most advantageous
and
labor rates the lowest.
Scummy business that's going to ruin this country.
Scummy business already has ruined this country.
The business called "unions".
What's funny is that you really don't get it. It's the business
practices since the Reagan mis-Administration that have done us in, the
unbridled greed of corporations and financial services companies that
has looted this country of its assets. Blaming that on the small
percentage of the workforce that is unionized just demonstrates your
simplemindedness.

Whoa, who woulda thunk that dead Reagan coulda tricked us inta
spending that nearly 2 trillion under Obama. I spose that just shows
how great Reagan was to force Obama to spend all that money and
accomplish nothing.


Obama didn't create a failed economy...he inherited it.

I sure do wish he would learn to manage his inheritance more wisely.

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...

Obama didn't create a failed economy...he inherited it.

That excuse is only good for so long, and it's getting dated.
Every new administration inherits problems and issues and they deserve to be
judged and held accountable on how they respond to them.

Obama had many good qualities as a global representative of the US compared
to the previous administration, but the shine and glitter is becoming
tarnished, especially in his domestic economic policies. His solution to
all ills is to promise to throw more money at them. Problem is, there's no
money to be thrown and the public, even a growing number of those who were
mesmerized by the hope and change rhetoric are waking up and realizing it.
His community organizer background is proving to be naive, wishful thinking
in the real world of global politics and economics.

Nice guy and all, but he's going to get his clock cleaned if he doesn't
wake up.


Eisboch


All that glitters is not gold in Obama's case. He doesn't have a clue
what money represents, but he is doing a hell of a job destroying the
value of money. I vote we go back to the bartering system where goods
and services are traded for goods and services of like value.

Eisboch wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

Investing in America, or funding 9000 earmarks in a foolish spending
spree? Obama and company are not investing in America!


Exactly right and the public is waking up to this.

I don't blame Obama completely. I primarily blame the bunch of crooked
jerks in Congress.
Obama's guilt is not reading them the riot act and insuring good use and
application of stimulus spending. Instead, he gave them a new, flashy
credit card with an unlimited credit line.

Eisboch


He promised us he wouldn't do that.

Eisboch wrote:
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...

Whoa, who woulda thunk that dead Reagan coulda tricked us inta
spending that nearly 2 trillion under Obama. I spose that just shows
how great Reagan was to force Obama to spend all that money and
accomplish nothing.
------------------------------------

The most significant current factor affecting the US economy/recovery right
now in both business and in private spending habits is the incredible,
unfathomable amount of spending and debt that this administration is willing
to commit to. It's the same, irresponible spending on credit philosophy
that got us into the situation we are in in the first place, except at a
grand, federal level and with inadequate income to pay the bills.

Our liberal social reformers can try to justify it all they want. The fact
is the country can simply not afford it. Rational and economically
thoughtful people understand this and are very concerned.

Business is the lifeblood of this country as we know it. Without incentives
for it to grow and prosper, the USA will choke to death in social program
debt.

Laws should be enforced to prevent scams and illegal business activities,
but the only way to return this country to prosperity is to provide
incentives for businesses to grow. Instead, and as witnessed here by the
comments of our liberal anti-corporation friends, the "enlightened"
philosophy and "in thing' now is to crucify all business or corporate
entities. It's like ****ing in your own water supply.

Eisboch



I must have missed the part in which you explained why we should once
again "trust" business to do the "right thing" for working Americans and
their families. American businesses have sold us down the river by:

1. exporting jobs as quickly as possible

2. producing products that kill us or make us sick

3. running financial services companies in a manner that literally
bankrupted millions of families and made a retirement just about impossible

4. cutting back on health care benefits for workers, and resisting
efforts to enable national health care plans

5. hiring "foreign" workers to come to this country legally and displace
higher-paid American workers

6. hiring as many "illegal" workers as possible so as to have an easily
exploitable workforce

7. fighting regulations that ensure American-made content

8. fighting anti-pollution laws

9. pushing for more and more development at the expense of the environment

10.engaging in massive fraud whenever possible to screw the taxpayers

And so forth.

Yes, Richard, I know. There are businesses that are operated
properly...for their owners.

Sorry, I don't trust "business" to "do the right thing" for anyone other
than its immediate owners and top executive employees. I might start
believing again if corporate salaries were limited to, oh, maybe 10
times the salary of the average non-executive worker at each company.

HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...

Whoa, who woulda thunk that dead Reagan coulda tricked us inta
spending that nearly 2 trillion under Obama. I spose that just shows
how great Reagan was to force Obama to spend all that money and
accomplish nothing.
------------------------------------

The most significant current factor affecting the US economy/recovery
right now in both business and in private spending habits is the
incredible, unfathomable amount of spending and debt that this
administration is willing to commit to. It's the same, irresponible
spending on credit philosophy that got us into the situation we are in
in the first place, except at a grand, federal level and with
inadequate income to pay the bills.

Our liberal social reformers can try to justify it all they want.
The fact is the country can simply not afford it. Rational and
economically thoughtful people understand this and are very concerned.

Business is the lifeblood of this country as we know it. Without
incentives for it to grow and prosper, the USA will choke to death in
social program debt.

Laws should be enforced to prevent scams and illegal business
activities, but the only way to return this country to prosperity is
to provide incentives for businesses to grow. Instead, and as
witnessed here by the comments of our liberal anti-corporation
friends, the "enlightened" philosophy and "in thing' now is to
crucify all business or corporate entities. It's like ****ing in your
own water supply.

Eisboch


I must have missed the part in which you explained why we should once
again "trust" business to do the "right thing" for working Americans and
their families. American businesses have sold us down the river by:

1. exporting jobs as quickly as possible

2. producing products that kill us or make us sick

3. running financial services companies in a manner that literally
bankrupted millions of families and made a retirement just about impossible

4. cutting back on health care benefits for workers, and resisting
efforts to enable national health care plans

5. hiring "foreign" workers to come to this country legally and displace
higher-paid American workers

6. hiring as many "illegal" workers as possible so as to have an easily
exploitable workforce

7. fighting regulations that ensure American-made content

8. fighting anti-pollution laws

9. pushing for more and more development at the expense of the environment

10.engaging in massive fraud whenever possible to screw the taxpayers

And so forth.

Yes, Richard, I know. There are businesses that are operated
properly...for their owners.

Sorry, I don't trust "business" to "do the right thing" for anyone other
than its immediate owners and top executive employees. I might start
believing again if corporate salaries were limited to, oh, maybe 10
times the salary of the average non-executive worker at each company.





If it wasn't for business you'd still be rubbing sticks together to make
fire, and eating squirrel.
Sorry, I don't trust government to do the right thing. Your government
is as corrupt as any business you can name.
Stop crying and wake up.