"John H" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:01:50 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
. ..

What I'm looking for is some type of ball and socket bracket that would
allow side to side motion without transmitting the stress to the screws.


I think you'd end up with a very floppy bimini.

The type of brackets you have allow the bimini to be lowered (folded up
when
underway).
They are not supposed to hold it rigid. That's what the straps are for.

Eisboch

Agree. But the straps prevent forward and backward motion. It's rock solid
that way. If there were straps going from the top right to the bottom left
and vice versa, then the swaying motion would be stopped also, or at least
most of it. But, walking around would be a pain.

It looks like a combination of this:
http://tacomarine.com/ccp51/media/im...y/F11-0177.gif

and this:
http://tacomarine.com/ccp51/media/im...l/F13-0301.gif

may do the job.


Maybe I don't understand your concept. What you have pictured is a ball and
socket type of fitting that is *designed* to allow it to flop around. If
your idea is to tighten up on the socket so it clamps down hard on the ball
it might stiffen it up *however* all the forces due to wind, etc. will
still be imparted on the bracket screws. You mentioned they are screws,
not bolts with backing plates. IMO, you're going up with cracks in the
gunnels.

Too stiff is not always good. Wait, let me rephrase that.

It's not always desirable to mount something like a wind catching bimini in
a manner that it can't "give" a bit. All the forces will be transmitted to
the brackets. The straps provide *additional* fore and aft support, taking
much of the stress off the brackets. They are there with consideration that
you may have the bimini up while underway.

That's my opinion.

Eisboch

On Jan 4, 9:20*am, John H wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:51:55 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq."





wrote:
John H wrote:
The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"

http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy

This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I said
screws, not through bolts.

However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets, and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.

I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and* some
degree of lateral movement.

Anyone know of such a thing? Help!

Is there a way to replace the screws with bolts and a backing plate?
The current screw allows side to side motion, and some of the motion is
absorbed by spring. *If you had a bracket that did not allow side to
side motion, the fiberglass and screw would be taking all the stress
directly and would actually strip quicker. *Or at least that is my
story, and I am sticking to it.

What I'm looking for is some type of ball and socket bracket that would
allow side to side motion without transmitting the stress to the screws.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Impossible. If it were a ball and socket type of connection, then it
would be free to rotate all the way to the ground or water. If it were
limited somehow, then it would still put the same amount of stress on
the screws when it reached that limit.

John H wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:01:50 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
...
What I'm looking for is some type of ball and socket bracket that would
allow side to side motion without transmitting the stress to the screws.

I think you'd end up with a very floppy bimini.

The type of brackets you have allow the bimini to be lowered (folded up when
underway).
They are not supposed to hold it rigid. That's what the straps are for.

Eisboch

Agree. But the straps prevent forward and backward motion. It's rock solid
that way. If there were straps going from the top right to the bottom left
and vice versa, then the swaying motion would be stopped also, or at least
most of it. But, walking around would be a pain.

It looks like a combination of this:
http://tacomarine.com/ccp51/media/im...y/F11-0177.gif

and this:
http://tacomarine.com/ccp51/media/im...l/F13-0301.gif

may do the job.

If I thought the bimini on a new boat would not hold up the stress while
underway or even from waves, I would talk to my dealer about finding a
better solution and/or providing backing plates and bolts.

But as far as the brackets you showed, I don't think those would reduce
the side to side movement, and would actually increase the movement.

John H wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:01:56 -0500, Jim wrote:

John H wrote:
The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"

http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy

This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I said
screws, not through bolts.

However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets, and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.

I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and* some
degree of lateral movement.

Anyone know of such a thing? Help!

We need to reduce or eliminate the sway.
What is the frame made of?
Show a picture of the frame, set up with the canvas on it.

I don't have any pictures with the bimini up. I think it's ugly. The frame
is stainless steel.

I could reduce the sway by using some bungee cords or straps *across* the
boat, or to the center console. I've thought of that, but the straps would
be in the way of walking around. As a last resort, that's what I'll do.

I'm thinking there must be some mounting brackets *made* to allow side to
side motion. I've just got to find them!

Doesn't that swaying drive you crazy?

On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:22:10 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:01:50 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
...

What I'm looking for is some type of ball and socket bracket that would
allow side to side motion without transmitting the stress to the screws.


I think you'd end up with a very floppy bimini.

The type of brackets you have allow the bimini to be lowered (folded up
when
underway).
They are not supposed to hold it rigid. That's what the straps are for.

Eisboch

Agree. But the straps prevent forward and backward motion. It's rock solid
that way. If there were straps going from the top right to the bottom left
and vice versa, then the swaying motion would be stopped also, or at least
most of it. But, walking around would be a pain.

It looks like a combination of this:
http://tacomarine.com/ccp51/media/im...y/F11-0177.gif

and this:
http://tacomarine.com/ccp51/media/im...l/F13-0301.gif

may do the job.


Maybe I don't understand your concept. What you have pictured is a ball and
socket type of fitting that is *designed* to allow it to flop around. If
your idea is to tighten up on the socket so it clamps down hard on the ball
it might stiffen it up *however* all the forces due to wind, etc. will
still be imparted on the bracket screws. You mentioned they are screws,
not bolts with backing plates. IMO, you're going up with cracks in the
gunnels.

Too stiff is not always good. Wait, let me rephrase that.

It's not always desirable to mount something like a wind catching bimini in
a manner that it can't "give" a bit. All the forces will be transmitted to
the brackets. The straps provide *additional* fore and aft support, taking
much of the stress off the brackets. They are there with consideration that
you may have the bimini up while underway.

That's my opinion.

Eisboch


OK, my explanation probably sucked. I'm not worried about fore and aft
motion, either while underway or at anchor. It's the side to side motion of
the bimini that puts stress on the mounting bracket, because there is not
enough play in the interface between the bimini frame and the deck bracket.
The side to side motion gets transmitted through the bracket to the
mounting screws.

I don't want to stop the side to side motion. I want it to be free, so that
stress will not be transmitted to the screws.

I'm thinking the ball is loose in the socket, but I've not seen it yet.

wrote:
On Jan 4, 9:31 am, John H wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:01:56 -0500, Jim wrote:
John H wrote:
The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"
http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy
This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I said
screws, not through bolts.
However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets, and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.
I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and* some
degree of lateral movement.
Anyone know of such a thing? Help!
We need to reduce or eliminate the sway.
What is the frame made of?
Show a picture of the frame, set up with the canvas on it.
I don't have any pictures with the bimini up. I think it's ugly. The frame
is stainless steel.

I could reduce the sway by using some bungee cords or straps *across* the
boat, or to the center console. I've thought of that, but the straps would
be in the way of walking around. As a last resort, that's what I'll do.

I'm thinking there must be some mounting brackets *made* to allow side to
side motion. I've just got to find them!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not sure but I would look into Sailboat hardware... Lot's of moving
joints there, one might suit your needs..

Boom to mast hardware comes to mind. I don't think it's what he should
be thinking about though.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Jan 4, 9:31 am, John H wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 09:01:56 -0500, Jim wrote:
John H wrote:
The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"
http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy
This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from
front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I
said
screws, not through bolts.
However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small
amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The
side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets,
and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.
I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a
ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and*
some
degree of lateral movement.
Anyone know of such a thing? Help!
We need to reduce or eliminate the sway.
What is the frame made of?
Show a picture of the frame, set up with the canvas on it.
I don't have any pictures with the bimini up. I think it's ugly. The
frame
is stainless steel.

I could reduce the sway by using some bungee cords or straps *across*
the
boat, or to the center console. I've thought of that, but the straps
would
be in the way of walking around. As a last resort, that's what I'll do.

I'm thinking there must be some mounting brackets *made* to allow side
to
side motion. I've just got to find them!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not sure but I would look into Sailboat hardware... Lot's of moving
joints there, one might suit your needs..

Boom to mast hardware comes to mind. I don't think it's what he should be
thinking about though.

You talkin' about a 'gooseneck' fitting?
fitting retracted for roller furling...
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...t=Hpim0167.jpg
fitting inserted for normal sailing.....
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...t=Hpim0168.jpg

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 10:35:46 -0500, John H
wrote:

OK, my explanation probably sucked. I'm not worried about fore and aft
motion, either while underway or at anchor. It's the side to side motion of
the bimini that puts stress on the mounting bracket, because there is not
enough play in the interface between the bimini frame and the deck bracket.
The side to side motion gets transmitted through the bracket to the
mounting screws.

"Side to side" motion is the most difficult to prevent because there
is typically no lateral bracing. The screws are working loose
because of the high stress on them, and they will crack the deck
eventually as others have pointed out. The answer is to through bolt
the fittings with backing plates and/or oversize fender washers.
That will solve the fitting problem and may reduce swaying some what.
Ultimately the answer is more bracing, with at least three attachment
points on each side. I'd get the recomendation of a good canvas shop
that does a lot of biminis.

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:43:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"

http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy

This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I said
screws, not through bolts.

However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets, and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.

I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and* some
degree of lateral movement.

Anyone know of such a thing? Help!

The only way you are going to stop it is to make the stainless tubing
fairly rigid - it's not so much the movement in the mount as it is the
length of the tubing that is causing your problem. And the only way
to stop that is to use heavier wall tubing - it's the wall flex that's
the problem, not the mount. Cheap T-tops have the same problem - not
enough wall strength in the tubes to make it rigid so they cross brace
the hell out of them. Even in custom made, heavy T-tops like mine
move without cross bracing.

This T-top is very similar to mine - mine is a little taller, made
from thicker tubing and is a slightly different design, but the point
is that it's cross braced to keep the sway down.

http://www.rangerboats.com/flash/gal...id=5511&gid=38

This is mine.

http://www.swsports.org/images/Pictu...g%20Boat02.jpg

With your current setup, the only way to make it stop is to cross
brace the tubing with some sort of cording - maybe bungee cord or
similar.

What I would do is brace the cornors of the top where the tubing
bends. You might be able to do it with bungee cord, but that defeats
the purpose - it would cut down on the sway though.

--

"An idealist is one who, on noticing that
a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes
that it will also make better soup."

H.L. Mencken

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:03:49 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:43:17 -0500, John H
wrote:

The bimini top on my Key West uses a mounting like this"

http://tinyurl.com/9ozwsy

This bracket allows the frame member mounted therein to rotate from front
to back without placing undue stress on the mounting screws. Note, I said
screws, not through bolts.

However when underway, even slowly, or just at anchor with a small amount
of ripple in the water, the bimini top sways from side to side. The side to
side motion gets transmitted directly to the screws in the brackets, and
causes them to loosen. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they
strip or worse.

I'm wondering if there aren't some fittings made that would have a ball
socket or some such to allow complete forward and back movement *and* some
degree of lateral movement.

Anyone know of such a thing? Help!

You need some diagonal bracing to stop the side to side. I see folks
with straps from the top corner to the opposite gunnel.

Yeah, that's one solution, but then walking around gets to be a big PITA.