On Apr 1, 12:13 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On 31 Mar 2007 19:47:22 -0700, wrote:

The one aspect of this that I like is that avoids the need for
ethernet up the mast.

You've got to get power up there some how.

Power run through 14ga. tinned, multi-stranded wire enclosed in a
thick and resliant cover and called "marine grade duplex" is many
orders of magnitude more chafe, UV, corrosion, and voltage drop
resistant than even the best marine grade ethernet cable.

That said, I do have ethernet up my mast, but if it fails and I am not
planning on dropping my stick soon, I'll revert to repeater mode.
Multiple redundancy is good seamanship.... even if WiFi is a non-
mission-critical extravagance

David Braun
S/V Nauisicaa

On 1 Apr 2007 08:32:21 -0700, wrote:

Power run through 14ga. tinned, multi-stranded wire enclosed in a
thick and resliant cover and called "marine grade duplex" is many
orders of magnitude more chafe, UV, corrosion, and voltage drop
resistant than even the best marine grade ethernet cable.

I think we'd all agree with that although 14 ga is way overkill.

That said, I do have ethernet up my mast, but if it fails and I am not
planning on dropping my stick soon, I'll revert to repeater mode.
Multiple redundancy is good seamanship.... even if WiFi is a non-
mission-critical extravagance

All well and good but does it leave you with the option of
reconfiguring your bridge to a new SSID, or sign on to a WiFi proxy
site? In other words, can you still communicate over the repeater
link to the bridge if no shore connection to an AP exists?

On Apr 1, 9:20 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On 1 Apr 2007 08:32:21 -0700, wrote:

Power run through 14ga. tinned, multi-stranded wire enclosed in a
thick and resliant cover and called "marine grade duplex" is many
orders of magnitude more chafe, UV, corrosion, and voltage drop
resistant than even the best marine grade ethernet cable.

I think we'd all agree with that although 14 ga is way overkill.

That said, I do have ethernet up my mast, but if it fails and I am not
planning on dropping my stick soon, I'll revert to repeater mode.
Multiple redundancy is good seamanship.... even if WiFi is a non-
mission-critical extravagance

All well and good but does it leave you with the option of
reconfiguring your bridge to a new SSID, or sign on to a WiFi proxy
site? In other words, can you still communicate over the repeater
link to the bridge if no shore connection to an AP exists?

As I said, I have not done this but based on my knowledge of the DD-
WRT firmware, I'll project what I think the answers would be. If
anyone has direct experience, please correct me.

Regarding new SSID: This is the beauty of the Auto AP script. It sends
out a ping to a time server on the internet every 30 seconds. If the
ping fails, it automatically reconnects to whichever AP has the
strongest signal. It requires no input from the downstream computer.
In fact even when it is used in a wired bridge mode, you will not
always have access to the device as it may be on a different subnet.
This is expalined in the Wiki referenced in the original post.

If you need to sign onto a wifi proxy, you can always contact it
wirelessly by manually changing your IP address to the same subnet as
the bridge/repeater. Make your changes and then go back to DHCP for
bridging into the network of choice. If this fails, you can regain
access to the device that is aloft by cycling its power. This will
return it to its original IP address and you can certainly contact it
as previously described.

Wayne, you seem to be a little skeptical about all this and I can
understand that. I have bought about 5 wireless routers and access
points trying to accomplish this project. Each one had some limitation
in the software that prevented them from working the way I knew they
were capable of operating. Once I discovered DD-WRT, it was this
amazing playground. Every option available in every router plus more
was all rolled into one. Plus contributors were writing code and
scrips that added into the firmware to create even greater
functionality. I suggest that you dig out some old router that you
have lying around and load DD-WRT on it. You will quickly see the
power inherrant in this firmware. But don't forget the Buffalo router.
This is an amazing piece of hardware for the money. I regret that I
didn't take any photos of my project before I bolted it to the top of
my mast, but I may be building a system for a friend and will take a
series of photos of that. It is the 5" x 5" board that makes this
router so ideal for using aloft. I even do some board level mods to
make it easier to fit into a small case.

David
S/V Nausicaa

On 1 Apr 2007 23:39:21 -0700, wrote:

Once I discovered DD-WRT, it was this
amazing playground. Every option available in every router plus more
was all rolled into one. Plus contributors were writing code and
scrips that added into the firmware to create even greater
functionality. I suggest that you dig out some old router that you
have lying around and load DD-WRT on it.

Interesting, good information.

Since I don't have any old routers laying around that are DD-WRT
capable, which would you recommend buying? Do any of them have a way
of recovering from a "bricked" state due to a faulty firmware load?
What programming language is the DD-WRT code written in, and what
development tools do you need for hacking around with it?

One issue that I have is goals and priorities. My priority is
achieving reliable WiFi service on the boat, not becoming a
router/bridge/DD-WRT expert. :-)

Most all this information you will notice comes from the DD-WRT Wiki.
I suggest spending a couple of hours pawing around over there. You are
likely to discover many things helpful to your goal that I fail to
mention.

This page lists all the DD-WRT supported routers:

http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_Devices

Of these, the Linksys WRT-54G routers are the easiest to flash as it
can be accomplished through the web interface of the router itself.
The biggest problem with the Linksys routers is that there is
significant differences in the hardware your are getting depending
upon which version of the WRT-54G you have. Versions 5 and 6 are
notoriously hard to deal with a they have been crippled at the factory
(I remember somewhere that it was possible to get around this somehow)
For an off the shelf new Linksys, it is best to go with the WRT-54GL.
One advantage of the Linksys routers over the Buffalo id twin
antennas. This could be helpful in a repeater set-up where one antenna
is used to connect to the access point (8 dBi stick) and another is
used to connect with your lap top (80 degree directional pointing down
from your mast). The DD-WRT firmware can sense which antenna is most
useful for the connection and use that antanna.

Although the Buffalo routers are not the easiest to flash (it requires
using a command line interface and a TFTP utility), it is neither
rocket science, nor uber-geekdom. The pay-off is the best hardware in
the smallest package size.

You asked about bricking. There is a Wiki that deals with that:

http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php...om_a_Bad_Flash

Basicly it is near impossible to render a router completly unuseable
by flashing incorrectly. Even if you did brick a couple routers, you
are still money ahead of where you would be if your were buying Senao
equipment.

I do not know what develpment tools are used for writing the firmware
itself. Coding on that level is way beyond anything of interest or
utility to most cruisers. I play around at the level of adding
"packages." These are preconfigured add-ons that typically become a
part of the unix operating environment of the router and are
automatically started when the router reboots. You can read about all
the major ones that are availabe he

http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Tutorials

I absolutely agree with your statement about goals and priorities.
Fortunately, this pathway is pretty well defined and yields pay-offs
far greater than the time invested. With any system, you will spend at
least a day creating a weather-tight enclosure and probably another
day getting it up the mast or wherever its outside home will be. I am
just suggesting that you spend an additional day reading and learning
about DD-WRT before you begin the project, because doing so will save
about 20 days of trying to solve all your problems created by locking
yourself into inappropriate consumer-grade POS router/bridges that
can't easily handle the changing AP connections. It will save you
quite a few trips up the mast as well.

David
S/V Nausicaa




On Apr 2, 7:04 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On 1 Apr 2007 23:39:21 -0700, wrote:

Once I discovered DD-WRT, it was this
amazing playground. Every option available in every router plus more
was all rolled into one. Plus contributors were writing code and
scrips that added into the firmware to create even greater
functionality. I suggest that you dig out some old router that you
have lying around and load DD-WRT on it.

Interesting, good information.

Since I don't have any old routers laying around that are DD-WRT
capable, which would you recommend buying? Do any of them have a way
of recovering from a "bricked" state due to a faulty firmware load?
What programming language is the DD-WRT code written in, and what
development tools do you need for hacking around with it?

One issue that I have is goals and priorities. My priority is
achieving reliable WiFi service on the boat, not becoming a
router/bridge/DD-WRT expert. :-)

Wayne.B wrote:
On 1 Apr 2007 23:39:21 -0700, wrote:


Once I discovered DD-WRT, it was this
amazing playground. Every option available in every router plus more
was all rolled into one. Plus contributors were writing code and
scrips that added into the firmware to create even greater
functionality. I suggest that you dig out some old router that you
have lying around and load DD-WRT on it.


Interesting, good information.

Since I don't have any old routers laying around that are DD-WRT
capable, which would you recommend buying? Do any of them have a way
of recovering from a "bricked" state due to a faulty firmware load?
What programming language is the DD-WRT code written in, and what
development tools do you need for hacking around with it?

One issue that I have is goals and priorities. My priority is
achieving reliable WiFi service on the boat, not becoming a
router/bridge/DD-WRT expert. :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT

http://www.dd-wrt.com/dd-wrtv2/index.php

I bought a V2.0 WRT-54G on eBay for about $50 with DD-WRT preloaded. It
has been running for weeks here in the house (using if for an wireless
AP on my home network) without a hiccup. The forum has tones of info on
de-bricking hardware.

Just like us guys, older is better (and smarter) when it comes to buying
Linksys routers. :)

Jack



--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

To David and others...

Great posts, reviewed the Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 Router specs. Flashing with
dd-wrt.V24_AAP-0130-wrt54g.bin seems easy.
I'm curious about what board-level mods you made. If you could
eventually post pics (if you do the job again), that would be great.
Any issues with the simple dropping resistor (to 5v) using boat power?

Hank S.
Ft. lauderdale

On Apr 5, 12:22 pm, hank wrote:
To David and others...

Great posts, reviewed the Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 Router specs. Flashing with
dd-wrt.V24_AAP-0130-wrt54g.bin seems easy.
I'm curious about what board-level mods you made. If you could
eventually post pics (if you do the job again), that would be great.
Any issues with the simple dropping resistor (to 5v) using boat power?

Hank S.
Ft. lauderdale

It appears I will be making another set up for a friend in about a
month or so, so I will be posting pics at that time.

Here are the board level mods:

1. Spin the antenna connector 90 degrees so that the antenne wire and
ethernet cable come out of the same side of the board

2. Scrape some components and traces off the board below the ethernet
ports and run jumpers over to the power jack. This provides POE
connectivity without having to have a bunch of other boxes or boards
in the housing. VERY clean!


I rigged up a voltage meter to a specially wired RJ45 keystone jack.
I hooked this jack up to the ethernet plug at the top of the mast. In
my electrical panel where I inject the POE power, I used a
potentiometer in line with my house battery power. I turned up the pot
until the voltage meter at the top of the mast read 5V. I then
measured the resistance of the pot and but a resistor of the same
value in line. I don't recall what the value was, but I could check if
you liked. It is important that you use a trial and error process like
this as the conductors in the ethernet cable are so small and the runs
so long that the voltage drop is significant. In my system, the round
trip distance is about 120'. To get a handle on what is at play here,
check out:

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

You can input wire sizes and runs and calculate voltage drop. Cat5
cable is usually 24 ga., but each leg uses 2 conductors. If you
convert the twin cross sectional areas to the most appropriate wire
guage, it comes out close to 21 ga. That guage is not an option in the
calcuator, but 20 ga. is. Even at that guage, voltage drop is
calculated to be over 20%. You can see that distance of the run is a
very big factor here.

I was a little concerned that cahrging voltages would mess with my
system. But 14V/12.7V is only a 12% difference and so far has not
shown any adverse effect. YMMV and if it does, let me know about your
experiences.


David
S/V Nausicaa