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#1
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Overspeed alarm based on alternator frequency
My engine panel overspeed alarm is driven by the freq output from the
alternator from the AC taps. The overspeed alarm goes off when the alternator speed is 5000rpm, equiv to engine speed 2300rpm. With a new alternator, I've reduced the pulley size considerably and the alt speed is 5000 rpm at 1400 engine rpm - and the alarm now goes off. The engine panel has a pot to adjust the overspped freq but looking at the service bulletin the freq will be outside its adjsutment range I've got 2 options - the easy one - disconnect the wire - is an overspeed really necessary or useful?? Try and get a device to divide the frequency. Grateful for any ideas. |
#2
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Overspeed alarm based on alternator frequency
CS inscribed in red ink for all to know:
My engine panel overspeed alarm is driven by the freq output from the alternator from the AC taps. The overspeed alarm goes off when the alternator speed is 5000rpm, equiv to engine speed 2300rpm. With a new alternator, I've reduced the pulley size considerably and the alt speed is 5000 rpm at 1400 engine rpm - and the alarm now goes off. The engine panel has a pot to adjust the overspped freq but looking at the service bulletin the freq will be outside its adjsutment range I've got 2 options - the easy one - disconnect the wire - is an overspeed really necessary or useful?? Try and get a device to divide the frequency. Grateful for any ideas. change the alternator pulley back to the one from the old alternator? bob |
#3
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Overspeed alarm based on alternator frequency
Colin,
It would be neat if you gave us any idea what this is about: What engine, What alernator anything else that might interesting. Are you so far from the engine that you could not hear it? Matt Colie CS wrote: My engine panel overspeed alarm is driven by the freq output from the alternator from the AC taps. The overspeed alarm goes off when the alternator speed is 5000rpm, equiv to engine speed 2300rpm. With a new alternator, I've reduced the pulley size considerably and the alt speed is 5000 rpm at 1400 engine rpm - and the alarm now goes off. The engine panel has a pot to adjust the overspped freq but looking at the service bulletin the freq will be outside its adjsutment range I've got 2 options - the easy one - disconnect the wire - is an overspeed really necessary or useful?? Try and get a device to divide the frequency. Grateful for any ideas. |
#4
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Overspeed alarm based on alternator frequency
Engine is a Daewoo L136 and the original alternator, 50A 5000 rpm max
continuous, was replaced by a Leece Neville unit, 110A 8000 rpm max cont . To get more amps from the alternator, I reduced the pulley so 8000 alt rpm is now achieved at just over 2300 engine rpm - engien normal max is 2200 rpm. The engine is beneath my feet in a luxemotor barge - so I think the oversped is somewhat superfluous. |
#5
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Overspeed alarm based on alternator frequency
"CS" wrote in news:1160512470.107776.32410
@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com: I've got 2 options - the easy one - disconnect the wire - is an overspeed really necessary or useful?? Try and get a device to divide the frequency. As alternator speed has NOTHING to do with its output once it's just off idle, why not put the right pulley back on it, correcting the problem and saving the alternator bearings from overspeed, themselves...premature failure. Spinning an alternator so fast DOESN'T make it put out another amp.... No, you can't charge the house batteries in 5 minutes, either....(sigh) -- There's amazing intelligence in the Universe. You can tell because none of them ever called Earth. |
#6
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Overspeed alarm based on alternator frequency
As alternator speed has NOTHING to do with its output once it's just off
idle, why not put the right pulley back on it, correcting the problem and saving the alternator bearings from overspeed, themselves...premature failure. Spinning an alternator so fast DOESN'T make it put out another amp.... COMPLETELY INCORRECT - look at the output curve for the alternator here - http://www.prestolite.com/images_alt...161U_curve.pdf At engine idle, alt will be at 2500 and deliver 85A. With old pulley off original alt, alt is only at 1500rpm and output is only 35A - so quite a useful increase. Output therefore CLEARLY varies considerably with speed and the spec sheet I got from Prestolite has it continuously rated for 8000 rpm - so it is not being overspeeded. Fundamental AC - the higher the freq (= more rpm) the greater the power that can be transmitted. Which is why aircraft AC systems are often at 400Hz - smaller kit but higher power. No, you can't charge the house batteries in 5 minutes, either....(sigh) At 110A a 920Ah battery is going to charge a hell of a lot quicker than at 50A. I'll leave you to do the sums. |
#7
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Overspeed alarm based on alternator frequency
Higher AC frequencies are good for transformers, but don't have an effect on the
transmission of power reasonable distances and a boat is way smaller than that. But since your AC is being converted to DC, the transformer argument is irrelevant. And your AC frequency will be pretty high start with -- there's more than one cycle per rev. "CS" wrote in message ups.com... As alternator speed has NOTHING to do with its output once it's just off idle, why not put the right pulley back on it, correcting the problem and saving the alternator bearings from overspeed, themselves...premature failure. Spinning an alternator so fast DOESN'T make it put out another amp.... COMPLETELY INCORRECT - look at the output curve for the alternator here - http://www.prestolite.com/images_alt...161U_curve.pdf At engine idle, alt will be at 2500 and deliver 85A. With old pulley off original alt, alt is only at 1500rpm and output is only 35A - so quite a useful increase. Output therefore CLEARLY varies considerably with speed and the spec sheet I got from Prestolite has it continuously rated for 8000 rpm - so it is not being overspeeded. Fundamental AC - the higher the freq (= more rpm) the greater the power that can be transmitted. Which is why aircraft AC systems are often at 400Hz - smaller kit but higher power. No, you can't charge the house batteries in 5 minutes, either....(sigh) At 110A a 920Ah battery is going to charge a hell of a lot quicker than at 50A. I'll leave you to do the sums. |
#8
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Overspeed alarm based on alternator frequency
"CS" wrote in news:1160536091.872456.50110
@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com: At 110A a 920Ah battery is going to charge a hell of a lot quicker than at 50A. I'll leave you to do the sums. Hmm.....is the regulator shorted?.... Over and over boaters report on here how quickly their huge battery banks drop off full current to 20A or 30A, tapering quickly to their consternation as the regulators do their jobs, much to their dismay.... LEAD ACID BATTERIES CHARGE VERY SLOWLY....hours and hours. You CANNOT charge a 920AH battery from 50% to full charge in the 5 minutes they all want to run the engine charging batteries................yet. However, the solution IS on the radar: http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_03/pr2901.htm 80% in 60 seconds.... 100% in 3 minutes flat.... 99% charge recovery after 1000 deep, deep cycles! Hmmm...the sums....950 AH new Li-Ion nanobeast charge in 60 seconds to 80% = 760AH....that would be 760A if we charged it in an hour but we're gonna charge it 60 times faster than that so 760A x 60 = 45,600A X 14.2V = 647,520 watts for 60 seconds divided by 746w/HP = 867HP for a minute....Hmm....don't think the Yanmar 3GM is gonna like that....How many v-belts does it take to drive a 45,600A alternator, anyways?? Can we mount the 700KW alternator where the aft cabin used to be? Maybe it'll charge it on your 110A charger running wide open for 950 divided by 110 = 8.6 hours....does that sound better? The new battery won't even get warm at 110 amps...It's internal resistance must be in nano-ohms to take a huge charging current like they do. Thankfully, the 1920's technology lead-acid wetcell's days are numbered.... Still no news I've found when the Nano-Li-Ions will be marketed. I suspect the auto and oil industries are heavily pressuring Toshiba and the other developers to flush the damned inventor and his notes down the toilet like they did all the EV cars (EV-1/GM remember them? All EV-1s were confiscated and crushed after dealers bitched they wouldn't need constant, expensive maintenance and repairs, the dealer's gravy train.) With THIS battery, the EV-1 would refuel in less time than it took to refill the Ford Exploder at god-awful amps/volts and every time you pressed the "brake" pedal, the huge power generated would restore the charge on the new Li-Ion cells under the trunk, instantly, not wasted trying to charge slowcharge batteries like now. Man, what an electric car we'd have if the *******s in control don't bury it, again! A side note: I've seen the webpage of the Dell notebook with the defective Li-Ion battery exploding on some conference table in a hotel. Very violent and very hot! It was about 4AH...Wonder what the fire will look like on a 950A Li-Ion house battery?? Will there be any boat left? There wasn't much notebook left...or table it was sitting on! -- There's amazing intelligence in the Universe. You can tell because none of them ever called Earth. |
#9
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Overspeed alarm based on alternator frequency
Higher AC frequencies are good for transformers, but don't have an effect on the transmission of power reasonable distances and a boat is way smaller than that. But since your AC is being converted to DC, the transformer argument is irrelevant. I'm lost - I have not mentioned transformers??? And your AC frequency will be pretty high start with -- there's more than one cycle per rev. Yes, a 10 pole alt at 8000 rpm is generating AC at around 1332Hz. More A can be produced at 1332Hz than at 50Hz. |
#10
posted to rec.boats.electronics
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Overspeed alarm based on alternator frequency
"Larry" wrote
As alternator speed has NOTHING to do with its output once it's just off idle, why not put the right pulley back on it, correcting the problem and saving the alternator bearings from overspeed, themselves...premature failure. Spinning an alternator so fast DOESN'T make it put out another amp.... Look at any alternator output curve and you will see that amps increase as RPM increases up to the point where they approach full output and then level out. That point is usually between 2500 and 3500 shaft RPM. There are a very few very expensive alternators, like the Eco-Tech, that are built to produce close to full output at less than 2000 RPM that have a very steep curve but most alternators require a minimum 2500 RPM to reach any significant output. That said, the OP's choice of alternators may not be the best if he wants to charge at dead idle. The output curve has a particularly slow slope. He should also consider that it takes a certain amount of power to produce 85 amps. Besides the output, the other item on that chart he should consider is the Torque curve. When you use a pulley ratio that allows close to full output at 800 engine RPM the torque increases to the point that invites belt failure and excessive side loads on bearings. His best option is to reduce the ratio closer to the original and charge at 1200 to 1500 engine RPM. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
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