So, now your saying your theory only applies to certain radios? Then you
shouldn't make blanket statements like you did. You mislead the average joe
who reads this newsgroup. It is not common knowledge and while it may be a
"fact" for "one" radio, it is certainly not a "fact" in general. I disproved
your statement on the Icom 735, and today I disproved it on the SEA222,
Icom-710, Icom-802, SEA235 and a Yaesu FT-897. I'm not disputing the fact
that minimizing voltage drops on an HF installation is of prime importance.
I just think you are way out of line making such a statement and claiming it
as a commonly understood fact.

Eric

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
It is commonly understood that for each volt dropped from 13.6 VDC
at the radios PowerAmp DC Terminals, you lose 50% of your PEP Power.
So if your at 13.6 Vdc you get your 150 PEP, and at 12.6 VDC you
get 75 PEP, and at 11.6 Vdc you get 35 PEP and below 11.0 VDC
the internal Voltage Regulators drop out of regulation and the
radio goes OFF.



It is not a Myth, is is a Fact, and as others have stated, your
experiment doesn't prove, or disprove the fact. Also, as Larry
stated the 21st Century Icom Rigs have a lot more headroom in the
SolidState Amps than just about any other Marine MF/HF Radio,
just to deal with this cause. Just try your experiment with ANY
SGC designed and built radio.

In article ,
"Eric Fairbank" wrote:

So, now your saying your theory only applies to certain radios? Then you
shouldn't make blanket statements like you did. You mislead the average joe
who reads this newsgroup. It is not common knowledge and while it may be a
"fact" for "one" radio, it is certainly not a "fact" in general. I disproved
your statement on the Icom 735, and today I disproved it on the SEA222,
Icom-710, Icom-802, SEA235 and a Yaesu FT-897. I'm not disputing the fact
that minimizing voltage drops on an HF installation is of prime importance.
I just think you are way out of line making such a statement and claiming it
as a commonly understood fact.

Eric

Eric, just how did you disprove this? Using the same setup that you
used in your original experiment? Well, now, why don't you try modifing
your setup and put 30Ft of #14 Wire from your very stiff powersupply to
the radios.
Now try the putput power test again, and come back and tell us all
what you find.

You see Bill Forgey, the Retired Chief Engineer at SEA, and I, did all
of these experiments years ago in the SEA Engineering LAB, and concluded
that yes, this was the case. One of the reasons that more headroom in
the HF Amplifier sections was a prime design factor in the SEA 322-330
Series Radios, but which still did not completely resolve the problem of
trying to operate a 20+ amp Current draw, thru a less than steller
Power Wire.


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

In article , Bruce in Alaska wrote:
In article ,
"Eric Fairbank" wrote:

So, now your saying your theory only applies to certain radios? Then you
shouldn't make blanket statements like you did. You mislead the average joe
who reads this newsgroup. It is not common knowledge and while it may be a
"fact" for "one" radio, it is certainly not a "fact" in general. I disproved
your statement on the Icom 735, and today I disproved it on the SEA222,
Icom-710, Icom-802, SEA235 and a Yaesu FT-897. I'm not disputing the fact
that minimizing voltage drops on an HF installation is of prime importance.
I just think you are way out of line making such a statement and claiming it
as a commonly understood fact.

Eric

Eric, just how did you disprove this? Using the same setup that you
used in your original experiment? Well, now, why don't you try modifing
your setup and put 30Ft of #14 Wire from your very stiff powersupply to
the radios.
Now try the putput power test again, and come back and tell us all
what you find.

You see Bill Forgey, the Retired Chief Engineer at SEA, and I, did all
of these experiments years ago in the SEA Engineering LAB, and concluded
that yes, this was the case. One of the reasons that more headroom in
the HF Amplifier sections was a prime design factor in the SEA 322-330
Series Radios, but which still did not completely resolve the problem of
trying to operate a 20+ amp Current draw, thru a less than steller
Power Wire.

Car audio caps can always beef up the supply transients needed for solid
state SSB and stereos.

greg

So, now your saying your theory only applies to certain radios? Then
you
shouldn't make blanket statements like you did. You mislead the average
joe
who reads this newsgroup. It is not common knowledge and while it may
be a
"fact" for "one" radio, it is certainly not a "fact" in general. I
disproved
your statement on the Icom 735, and today I disproved it on the SEA222,
Icom-710, Icom-802, SEA235 and a Yaesu FT-897. I'm not disputing the
fact
that minimizing voltage drops on an HF installation is of prime
importance.
I just think you are way out of line making such a statement and
claiming it
as a commonly understood fact.

Eric

Eric, just how did you disprove this? Using the same setup that you
used in your original experiment? Well, now, why don't you try modifing
your setup and put 30Ft of #14 Wire from your very stiff powersupply to
the radios.
Now try the putput power test again, and come back and tell us all
what you find.

You see Bill Forgey, the Retired Chief Engineer at SEA, and I, did all
of these experiments years ago in the SEA Engineering LAB, and concluded
that yes, this was the case. One of the reasons that more headroom in
the HF Amplifier sections was a prime design factor in the SEA 322-330
Series Radios, but which still did not completely resolve the problem of
trying to operate a 20+ amp Current draw, thru a less than steller
Power Wire.

Bruce

Car audio caps can always beef up the supply transients needed for solid
state SSB and stereos.

greg

You bet! the big capacitors (condensers, really) were often used here to
help SSB rigs "whistle" or "five, five, five" up near ratings. In fact the
internal big filter capacitors in bench test power supplies contributed
trouble pinpointing the problems bringing rigs up to snuff. When the DC
power wire resistance caused momentary voltage drops in a real world
installation, the Simpson 260 couldn't see what the voltage actually was
during PEP peaks. Just a little needle quiver. (forget the digital VOM....
it read all over the place) When you finally sweated and groaned the old
Tektronics scope (me..... Heathkit) up on the ship/boat, the cause of
channel changing, low power and tuner lock-up became clear. Once in a while
a quick BIG cap across the SSB power terminals just before we took Bob Z
aboard would do the trick.

I enjoyed your Peeair story, Bruce, I know Don must be rolling over in the
grave. (I did like Don's little active (Dymek?) antenna, though, to get the
WEFAX antenna up and away from the digital noise disaster in the pilot
house)

Old Chief Lynn

"Lynn Coffelt" wrote in news:du5fag$v08$1
@emma.aioe.org:

When you finally sweated and groaned the old
Tektronics scope (me..... Heathkit) up on the ship/boat, the cause of
channel changing, low power and tuner lock-up became clear.

Hey, Chief! Wanna borrow my little Fluke handheld storage scope?...(c;

http://www.tessco.com/products/displ...87&eventPage=1

They got a new color one with 200 Mhz bandwidth and two channels to drool
over, now. Digital persistence....(c;

In article ,
"Lynn Coffelt" wrote:

I enjoyed your Peeair story, Bruce, I know Don must be rolling over in the
grave. (I did like Don's little active (Dymek?) antenna, though, to get the
WEFAX antenna up and away from the digital noise disaster in the pilot
house)

Old Chief Lynn

Yea, Don was one hell of a smart guy, and one World Class Radio
Designer, for his day. I think I still have a Stoner CB around here
somewhere.
Lynn, would you know if Finn Christensen is still working for SGC.
He was the guy who did the orginal design of the N571-575 series
Poweramps, and left Northen just before it was bought by that Guy
from California and moved to Redmond. He went to SGC to help PeeAir
figure out how to build a SS PA for the follow on SSB Radios after the
711.
I kind of lost track of him after Northen went under, and I saw him at
the Bankrupcy Auction.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Lynn Coffelt" wrote:

I enjoyed your Peeair story, Bruce, I know Don must be rolling over in
the
grave. (I did like Don's little active (Dymek?) antenna, though, to get
the
WEFAX antenna up and away from the digital noise disaster in the pilot
house)

Old Chief Lynn

Yea, Don was one hell of a smart guy, and one World Class Radio
Designer, for his day. I think I still have a Stoner CB around here
somewhere.
Lynn, would you know if Finn Christensen is still working for SGC.
He was the guy who did the orginal design of the N571-575 series
Poweramps, and left Northen just before it was bought by that Guy
from California and moved to Redmond. He went to SGC to help PeeAir
figure out how to build a SS PA for the follow on SSB Radios after the
711.
I kind of lost track of him after Northen went under, and I saw him at
the Bankrupcy Auction.

Bruce in alaska
--
No, I am not familiar with Finn. I really only know Pierre from
telephone conversations. He would make a sales pitch call once in a while.
And I'd have to try to be polite.

There was a nice 100' Knight-Carver (or was it Carver-Knight?) here
with two of the latest and greatest SGC 24 channel synthesized rigs here.
Owner's full time maintainer said factory techs had installed and tuned them
down in San Diego. One of them worked fairly well, but the other barely
hailed vessels in the same marina. Super Tech, Old Chief Lynn was called
into action. The poor performer's little square box manual tuner was at arms
length in a console cavity. When I finally got the lid off the little
bugger, the tuning jumpers and capacitors were still untouched in their
little plastic bags. Sheesh!

I'm slowly gathering dusty parts for an 866A lit power supply...... I'm
without a rig right now, and never had a store boughten transmitter yet.
Itching to get back on 40 CW before I forget the code. (or there are no CW
operators there).

(is this thread, "30amp 12v circuit", something for filament power?)

Old Chief Lynn

I'm just shaking my head here Bruce. You keep changing your story. I
disagree with your original blanket statement which was not in reference to
old SGC rigs or installations with 30ft of #14 wire. Jeez!

Eric

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
Eric, just how did you disprove this? Using the same setup that you
used in your original experiment? Well, now, why don't you try modifing
your setup and put 30Ft of #14 Wire from your very stiff powersupply to
the radios.
Now try the putput power test again, and come back and tell us all
what you find.