After a number of years away from sailing and cruising, I am starting to get
back ... little by little.

Using my past boat ownership experience, three full keel boats. Two were
ok, one was a DOG.

I am looking at different boats on the net. There sure are a lot of boats
for sale.

My criteria: well built ( I don't care how old, just well built ), ocean
worthy, either no engine or a diesel engine [ please don't tell me that a 35
year old Atomic 4 is fine, all you need to do it keep them maintained ], a
conservative design [ I plan on cruising not racing ], and big enough to
sail anywhere but small enough to sail alone.

That is the question; what size? I want to have my family out with me but
if they are busy or don't care to go or if I take off for an extended trip
........... what size sailboat [ I shudder at the term yacht ] would be just
about right for a single hander?

Here are a few of the boats I have looked at over the last few days. A
Pearson 35 [ built late 60's and one built early 70's ], and Albin Ballad
[ built 1976, Sweden? .. 29'something "'s .. not that heavy .. has fin
keel ...spade rudder ?? ... ], and a whole bunch of boats like this.

What do you experts think... if you aren't an expert and have an opinion...
that is even better.

After a summer sailing the Endeavor 32 we bought last year, I would
start looking for another one tomorrow if anything happened to it.
This is from the perspective of a boat designer and a quarter century
of sailing on a wide variety of boats between 7 and 380 feet.

It's primarily a good choice if your budget is limited. We got a very
clean 1980 boat for $15,000 and put about half of that again into
upgrades. For that, we got a boat with full headroom, six berths (at
least for an overnight), open and very woody interior, carries a few
more than it sleeps comfortably on daysails. We got good sails and a
great diesel engine. It's still small enough for easy singlehanding
and managing alone in a tight marina berth.

This is a very middle of the road boat that doesn't stand out in any
particular area but does just about everything you need in cruising
very well. It isn't fast but it isn't slow either. We often sail past
faster boats if they aren't paying close attention to sail trim. I
always feel like we are making good progress on cruising legs. It is a
shoal draft, wide headsail sheeting base, vessel so windward isn't her
best point of sail but beating performance is still way ahead of
traditional vessels and she makes solid progress.

What really endears her to me is the handling. The turning radius is
tight and response quick which makes marinas and tight docking
situations easier. Unlike most boats I've sailed with this kind of
helm response, she can be overpowered and driven down hard in a tight
spot without ever threatening to take charge. There is plenty of helm
force but, when you overcome it, she does what you need her to do.
I'd like slower helm response if we did more long cruising but she is
just right for fun daysailing and shorter trips. A good autopilot
would provide the best of both worlds.

This is not a true blue water boat although they have sailed at least
half way around the world that I know of. They were designed for
island hopping in the Caribbean and have an excellent hot weather
interior with all opening ports. With new ports and some beefing up of
cockpit and other openings, they should be capable of going farther
than most people would want to go.

The detail work is a bit rough in spots, you can see that a lot of
ganja got smoked during the construction but a three quarter inch
solid glass hull makes up for a lot of sins. The decks are stiffened
with plywood glassed under the main lay-up so there is no coring
anywhere to worry about.

If I suddenly had $50,000 to spend on a boat at this point, I would
still look for one of these for about 20 and then have it stripped and
redone soup to nuts. It's a great hull with the comfort and easy
motion of a traditional boat but the responsive handling of a modern
one. If I had $150,000 for a boat and were designing one for custom
construction, it would still look a lot like our E32.

Look for a 1980 - 1982 for the best features.

You can see the story of our boat at:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/RWL.htm


--

Roger Long

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:04:55 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Look for a 1980 - 1982 for the best features.

You can see the story of our boat at:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/RWL.htm

========================================

Good looking boat Roger, and nice documentation of the purchase and
refurbishment process. It's amazing how all those little things add
up isn't it? The good new is that you are probably now close to new
boat condition and for a whole lot less money than that.

Great pictures Roger. Incidentally, the 52.7 meter barque that your
article says wasn't built actually was built! - I sailed on her several
years while serving on the crew.

- Well, almost! Actually, the Elissa, built in 1877 in Aberdeen
Scotland, is a barque docked in Galveston that looks very much like the
one shown in your drawing. It is maintained in sailing condition by a
volunteer crew at the Texas Seaport Museum in Galveston, associated with
the Galveston Historical Society, and sailed in the Gulf several days
each year. The historical connection to Galveston relates to the fact
that it docked in Galveston twice in the 1800's while engaged in trade
between England, the US, and ports in South America.- When I was on the
crew, in addition to training, maintenance and promotional events, I
conducted guided tours of the ship. In return, we crew members and
guests got to sail on her several times during the Summer. (It could get
pretty exciting, particularly when going aloft to let out the royal and
topgallants, holding onto the yardarm with one arm while working the
sails with the other while standing on a tensioned foot line extending
below the arm, all done while the ship was bouncing around in 25-knot
winds. But what a beautiful view from up there!) In any event, you may
want to check out their site: http://www.tsm-elissa.org/

Jim Cate





Roger Long wrote:

After a summer sailing the Endeavor 32 we bought last year, I would
start looking for another one tomorrow if anything happened to it.
This is from the perspective of a boat designer and a quarter century
of sailing on a wide variety of boats between 7 and 380 feet.

It's primarily a good choice if your budget is limited. We got a very
clean 1980 boat for $15,000 and put about half of that again into
upgrades. For that, we got a boat with full headroom, six berths (at
least for an overnight), open and very woody interior, carries a few
more than it sleeps comfortably on daysails. We got good sails and a
great diesel engine. It's still small enough for easy singlehanding
and managing alone in a tight marina berth.

This is a very middle of the road boat that doesn't stand out in any
particular area but does just about everything you need in cruising
very well. It isn't fast but it isn't slow either. We often sail past
faster boats if they aren't paying close attention to sail trim. I
always feel like we are making good progress on cruising legs. It is a
shoal draft, wide headsail sheeting base, vessel so windward isn't her
best point of sail but beating performance is still way ahead of
traditional vessels and she makes solid progress.

What really endears her to me is the handling. The turning radius is
tight and response quick which makes marinas and tight docking
situations easier. Unlike most boats I've sailed with this kind of
helm response, she can be overpowered and driven down hard in a tight
spot without ever threatening to take charge. There is plenty of helm
force but, when you overcome it, she does what you need her to do.
I'd like slower helm response if we did more long cruising but she is
just right for fun daysailing and shorter trips. A good autopilot
would provide the best of both worlds.

This is not a true blue water boat although they have sailed at least
half way around the world that I know of. They were designed for
island hopping in the Caribbean and have an excellent hot weather
interior with all opening ports. With new ports and some beefing up of
cockpit and other openings, they should be capable of going farther
than most people would want to go.

The detail work is a bit rough in spots, you can see that a lot of
ganja got smoked during the construction but a three quarter inch
solid glass hull makes up for a lot of sins. The decks are stiffened
with plywood glassed under the main lay-up so there is no coring
anywhere to worry about.

If I suddenly had $50,000 to spend on a boat at this point, I would
still look for one of these for about 20 and then have it stripped and
redone soup to nuts. It's a great hull with the comfort and easy
motion of a traditional boat but the responsive handling of a modern
one. If I had $150,000 for a boat and were designing one for custom
construction, it would still look a lot like our E32.

Look for a 1980 - 1982 for the best features.

You can see the story of our boat at:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/RWL.htm

I know the Elissa well. The next tall ship on my site, the full
rigged one, was being designed for an organization headed by the
fellow who was director of the Elissa restoration project. He made
that one happen but just couldn't get the new ship project off the
ground.

--

Roger Long



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Great pictures Roger. Incidentally, the 52.7 meter barque that your
article says wasn't built actually was built! - I sailed on her
several years while serving on the crew.
- Well, almost! Actually, the Elissa, built in 1877 in Aberdeen
Scotland, is a barque docked in Galveston that looks very much like
the one shown in your drawing. It is maintained in sailing
condition by a volunteer crew at the Texas Seaport Museum in
Galveston, associated with the Galveston Historical Society, and
sailed in the Gulf several days each year. The historical connection
to Galveston relates to the fact that it docked in Galveston twice
in the 1800's while engaged in trade between England, the US, and
ports in South America.- When I was on the crew, in addition to
training, maintenance and promotional events, I conducted guided
tours of the ship. In return, we crew members and guests got to
sail on her several times during the Summer. (It could get pretty
exciting, particularly when going aloft to let out the royal and
topgallants, holding onto the yardarm with one arm while working the
sails with the other while standing on a tensioned foot line
extending below the arm, all done while the ship was bouncing around
in 25-knot winds. But what a beautiful view from up there!) In any
event, you may want to check out their site:
http://www.tsm-elissa.org/

Jim Cate





Roger Long wrote:

After a summer sailing the Endeavor 32 we bought last year, I would
start looking for another one tomorrow if anything happened to it.
This is from the perspective of a boat designer and a quarter
century of sailing on a wide variety of boats between 7 and 380
feet.

It's primarily a good choice if your budget is limited. We got a
very clean 1980 boat for $15,000 and put about half of that again
into upgrades. For that, we got a boat with full headroom, six
berths (at least for an overnight), open and very woody interior,
carries a few more than it sleeps comfortably on daysails. We got
good sails and a great diesel engine. It's still small enough for
easy singlehanding and managing alone in a tight marina berth.

This is a very middle of the road boat that doesn't stand out in any
particular area but does just about everything you need in cruising
very well. It isn't fast but it isn't slow either. We often sail
past faster boats if they aren't paying close attention to sail
trim. I always feel like we are making good progress on cruising
legs. It is a shoal draft, wide headsail sheeting base, vessel so
windward isn't her best point of sail but beating performance is
still way ahead of traditional vessels and she makes solid progress.

What really endears her to me is the handling. The turning radius is
tight and response quick which makes marinas and tight docking
situations easier. Unlike most boats I've sailed with this kind of
helm response, she can be overpowered and driven down hard in a
tight spot without ever threatening to take charge. There is plenty
of helm force but, when you overcome it, she does what you need her
to do. I'd like slower helm response if we did more long cruising
but she is just right for fun daysailing and shorter trips. A good
autopilot would provide the best of both worlds.

This is not a true blue water boat although they have sailed at
least half way around the world that I know of. They were designed
for island hopping in the Caribbean and have an excellent hot
weather interior with all opening ports. With new ports and some
beefing up of cockpit and other openings, they should be capable of
going farther than most people would want to go.

The detail work is a bit rough in spots, you can see that a lot of
ganja got smoked during the construction but a three quarter inch
solid glass hull makes up for a lot of sins. The decks are stiffened
with plywood glassed under the main lay-up so there is no coring
anywhere to worry about.

If I suddenly had $50,000 to spend on a boat at this point, I would
still look for one of these for about 20 and then have it stripped
and redone soup to nuts. It's a great hull with the comfort and easy
motion of a traditional boat but the responsive handling of a modern
one. If I had $150,000 for a boat and were designing one for custom
construction, it would still look a lot like our E32.

Look for a 1980 - 1982 for the best features.

You can see the story of our boat at:

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/RWL.htm

Looking at your drawings and specs for the barque, the size, rigging,
and hull configuration of the Elissa seem very close to your design.
At the time, I could name and explain all the lines (90 or so) involved
in the running rigging.

As understood, because of its long service life, the Elissa travelled
more total nms than any ship still in use at the time it was taken out
of service. It's one of the very few 19th century tall ships still
sailing on a regular basis.

Jim



Roger Long wrote:

I know the Elissa well. The next tall ship on my site, the full
rigged one, was being designed for an organization headed by the
fellow who was director of the Elissa restoration project. He made
that one happen but just couldn't get the new ship project off the
ground.

Tom--

You probably know all about Westsail 32's. Heavy, full keel, comfortable,
and about as fast as the Budweiser Clydesdales. (Built like them, too.) I
owned one for ten years, dreamed about offshore cruising, and learned too
late I started dreaming too late. (North of septugenarian status now.)
Having discovered, anyway, the difference between a dream and a fantasy, we
sold the boat two years ago and bought a Lord Nelson Victory Tug. You can
go cruising and still be indoors, and in our part of the country (Pacific
NW) that doesn't mean you're a sissy....Had a wonderful 3-month cruise, 2500
miles, to Alaska and back this past summer.

Anyhow, I'm still infatuated with the Westsail, and suggest you have a
look--or another.

Must say, though, Strider is a beauty.

Here's the link to the broker who is selling our old Westsail for the chap
who bought her from us.

Cheers, fair winds, and blue skies to you.


Dick Behan





http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...neservicenter&



"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in message
newsMbtf.1$WX3.0@trndny09...
After a number of years away from sailing and cruising, I am starting to
get back ... little by little.

Using my past boat ownership experience, three full keel boats. Two were
ok, one was a DOG.

I am looking at different boats on the net. There sure are a lot of boats
for sale.

My criteria: well built ( I don't care how old, just well built ), ocean
worthy, either no engine or a diesel engine [ please don't tell me that a
35 year old Atomic 4 is fine, all you need to do it keep them
maintained ], a conservative design [ I plan on cruising not racing ], and
big enough to sail anywhere but small enough to sail alone.

That is the question; what size? I want to have my family out with me
but if they are busy or don't care to go or if I take off for an extended
trip .......... what size sailboat [ I shudder at the term yacht ] would
be just about right for a single hander?

Here are a few of the boats I have looked at over the last few days. A
Pearson 35 [ built late 60's and one built early 70's ], and Albin Ballad
[ built 1976, Sweden? .. 29'something "'s .. not that heavy .. has fin
keel ...spade rudder ?? ... ], and a whole bunch of boats like this.

What do you experts think... if you aren't an expert and have an
opinion... that is even better.

"R.W. Behan" wrote in
om:

a Lord Nelson Victory Tug

Now THERE's a beautiful boat.

In SC, being cold isn't an issue. Victory Tug owners have two air
conditioners...(c;

Thanks, Larry--they are good lookin' boats, all right. It's the power boat
version of a Westsail sailboat. Big fat slow happy and comfortable. Here's
the broker's picture that transfixed us--and we later bought this boat.

Cheers,

Dick Behan

http://www.maplebay.com/page100.htm




"Larry" wrote in message
...
"R.W. Behan" wrote in
om:

a Lord Nelson Victory Tug

Now THERE's a beautiful boat.

In SC, being cold isn't an issue. Victory Tug owners have two air
conditioners...(c;

"R.W. Behan" wrote in news:Ju2dnX_gPboCrSreRVn-
:

http://www.maplebay.com/page100.htm

Love the blue trim.

There has just got to be some way of making a tug whistle blow on these
tugs. A horn just isn't right. Maybe and air compressor pumping into a
tank off the engine would do it. They need a proper whistle..(c;

Everytime I see a tug, I think back to the 60's when I was a young sailor
on a destroyer tender. We were stern-to a quay out in Naples, IT, harbor
and every couple of days these two Italians came by in their 1920-
something diesel tug to bring us a new garbage barge and haul off the
full one.

The tug was spotless. What pride they took in that boat. There were
only two aboard, the captain and the engineer, who had to be in the
engine room to run the old, I-have-no-idea-whos, diesel. Wide open
hauling the barge away it must have turned up 120 RPM! It idled at
barely turning, probably 20 RPM, with a beautiful rhythmic
thump...thump...thump. Looking in the engine room hatch, right behind
the pilot house, you could watch the external pushrods of the OHV engine
going up and down. Each had several oiling felts and I observed our
engineer pumping oil into them from his oil can at times. The throttle
wasn't in the wheelhouse, it was on the side of the injector rack on top
of the engine. What looked like a direct-drive oldham coupler with a
very long, highly polished brass handle selected F-N-A behind the engine.
Watching them bring the barge alongside with both men manipulating the
single screw hiptowing the large barge was just a beautiful ballet.
Then, they'd untie from the fresh and tie up to the full one. The
captain would reach in and give the big wheel a spin, going back outside
to line handle. The engineer shoved her in forward and give her ahead
standard throttle. He then left the engine room for the wheelhouse just
in time to go rudder amidships, without the captain ever looking over his
shoulder. I don't think they ever spoke a word during the entire
operation.

Off they went, headed back to the salvage yard to see if we'd left them
any government presents on the barge.....

Thump...thump...thump...thump out of sight....(c;

Every part on that engine you could see seemed to be hand painted a
different color. I remember pushrods being red, rocker arms green, block
was grey. Every copper injector pipe was polished. It looked ancient
but like it had been built yesterday, a floating museum piece...still
working.

They had a whistle...(c;