Larry wrote:

Thanks, Jack,

You bet we're a fringe market! However, this isn't a jetski, it's an
actual boat! In fact, one of the finest boats you can buy - Hinckley -
uses jet drives. They have the advantage of having nothing hanging below
the bottom to get banged up by rocks. Thus, it is uniquely equipped for
fishing in shallow water providing you don't suck up mud into the pump!

You're right, I just looked at them on the SeaDoo page. No insult
intended with my remark about the jetski drivers.

The problem is that the steering mechanism for the jet is under water.
Thus, any drive which moves the jet also has to be. Nautamatic suggested I
replace the steering mechanism with a hydraulic one, but that is close to
impossible.

Okay, I have a better image now. There aren't any cross sections or
manuals on that page though, so I don't have any idea what's "inside the
box". There is nothing at all in the way of a moving part in a dry area
where a push/pull arm could be attached and an actuator could be
mounted? If there was, one of the lighter models that have a hand
control box on a cable might could be made to work.

Jack

--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Jack Erbes wrote in news:gaWdnSlacsDilLfeRVn-
:

Thus, it is uniquely equipped for
fishing in shallow water providing you don't suck up mud into the pump!


MUD isn't the problem. This Sport Jet ISN'T the kind of jet for shallow
water fishing, like the Australians produce. If the smallest rock gets
sucked up through that intake grate and lodges between the spinning
impeller and the VERY CLOSELY POSITIONED stator vanes behind it, the right-
angle gearcase in the pump simply is torn apart before the pin shears. You
might as well throw the pump away. A new complete Sport Jet is cheaper.

Mud isn't any problem at all, nor is weeds, all of which are soft. I added
the "Salad Shooter" intake grate Merc makes to replace the cheap one the
OEMs buy. This grate opens to allow weeds to be sucked into the pump and
VOILA! World's Largest Salad Shooter comes shooting out the back.

Take a former Sport Jet owner's advise, for your own good. DON'T LET THAT
INTAKE GRATE GET ANYWHERE WITHIN THREE FEET OF THE BOTTOM, even in mud!
There's always that little rock or other piece of hard crap in there that
will just make your Sport Jet ownership SUCK!

Question - When was the last time you had the stator off the pump to change
the rear bearing lube oil and carefully inspect the shaft seal that keeps
the water out of the poorly-designed bearing? Ever seen its guts? I
learned how from a Merc mechanic. When he took it apart, we found the
shaft seal GONE! The damned Mercury Platinum Dealer's expert mechanic
didn't seat it properly and the shaft just tore it off, running the bearing
on seawater, sand and what little oil didn't leak out. I learned how to do
it myself so it wouldn't happen again. Your dealer hasn't a clue about
Sport Jets and DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW.... He fixes OUTBOARDS.

If you take it apart, be SURE to put grease on the 4 stainless bolts that
screw into the cheap aluminum housing.....OR THEY'LL SEIZE! It took us
over an hour to work them loose without breaking them off INSIDE the
housing. My mechanic gave up. I took R-22 refrigerant and froze the bolt
to -50 C by dripping liquid freon onto the bolt head, shrinking the whole
bolt. That was the only way it will come off. DON'T LET THEM HEAT IT WITH
A TORCH as it will really screw up the Merc paint job and ruin the pump.
Freezing the bolts, then working them back and forth, got mine off. They
were hard seized! STUPID DEALERS! The grease keeps the electrolysis from
INSIDE the bolt holes just fine.

Just a few hints. I loved my Sport Jet, the 175hp carb'd model. Mine was
a Sea Rayder F16XR2 16' yellow with purple bimini. Chick magnet!

Oh, one more hint to save your Sport Jet.......
Take the flywheel off the top of it with a proper puller. The core of the
stator coils (about $300 at a dealer) is OPEN TO THE WET! Idiots....My
first one rusted solid, shorting out the magnetic fields and stranding me
with no spark! Before yours rusts solid, and it will, GREASE the surface
of the soft iron cores wherever you can see them around where the magnets
whirl around the outside of them. Grease up the inside of the flywheel,
too, to keep the magnets from corroding all up. The new core, an
aftermarket product better than Mercury's, never rusted or corroded at all
coated with a nice layer of marine grease....(c; The guy I sold it to has
never had a problem with it in 2 years.

Remove the chinzy oil injection made out of PLASTIC and all its plumbing.
The hole the pump fits into has a cover plate you can get from the dealer
for free after you remove the gear drive. Every new powerhead has this
coverplate on it and dealers just toss them away as they re-install the oil
injection nightmare. Mix your fuel at 40:1, oil company brands TC-W3. 1
quart to every 10 gallons of gas...or close to that, not critical. After a
thousand hours of running premix gas, the inside of the cylinders is barely
worn, the rings still real tight and in good condition and all the bearings
in the crankcase are LUBED, not dry like 100:1 oil injection the way the
greenies and government bureaucrats want them. The new owner still mixes
oil at 40:1 in the tank and at 1600 hours on a 1997 Sport Jet it purrs like
a kitten. LOTS of powerheads are blown by oil injection failures, STILL!

--
Larry

Please see below.

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:34:16 -0400, Larry wrote:

Jack Erbes wrote in news:gaWdnSlacsDilLfeRVn-
:

Thus, it is uniquely equipped for
fishing in shallow water providing you don't suck up mud into the pump!


MUD isn't the problem. This Sport Jet ISN'T the kind of jet for shallow
water fishing, like the Australians produce. If the smallest rock gets
sucked up through that intake grate and lodges between the spinning
impeller and the VERY CLOSELY POSITIONED stator vanes behind it, the right-
angle gearcase in the pump simply is torn apart before the pin shears. You
might as well throw the pump away. A new complete Sport Jet is cheaper.

Mud isn't any problem at all, nor is weeds, all of which are soft. I added
the "Salad Shooter" intake grate Merc makes to replace the cheap one the
OEMs buy. This grate opens to allow weeds to be sucked into the pump and
VOILA! World's Largest Salad Shooter comes shooting out the back.

Take a former Sport Jet owner's advise, for your own good. DON'T LET THAT
INTAKE GRATE GET ANYWHERE WITHIN THREE FEET OF THE BOTTOM, even in mud!
There's always that little rock or other piece of hard crap in there that
will just make your Sport Jet ownership SUCK!

Well, a few things have changed since you owned your boat. The grate on
the bottom is stainless steel, very heavy duty, and hinged. I have owned
this boat for three years now. Last year I went too close to a mud bottom
and managed to get the pump plugged. I was at the south end of a 37 mile
lake with my truck and trailer at the north end. It was 3:30 pm and the
maximum speed I could make was 5 mph! I tried all the tricks in the owners
manual. Nothing worked. Finally, in desperation, I gave it full throttle
and after a small explosion, out came the mud and weeds.

This year, I experienced a problem similar to what you mention. I was
launching on a small lake with a rocky bottom. There was a strong wind
which kept pushing me back to shore. Before I could get far enough away,
but with the engine running, I was grounded and a few small rocks were
sucked up past the grate (it is hinged, although I don't know why). It
shut the engine down.

We pulled the boat out with the trailer and I used all manner of tools.
The grate is held on by two SS hex bolts and two fasteners whose name
escapes me only they are VERY non standard. The heads are similar to those
found on some automobiles - star shaped but otherwise like a hex key. I
was able to get all of the rocks out finally and everything has worked
since.

Question - When was the last time you had the stator off the pump to change
the rear bearing lube oil and carefully inspect the shaft seal that keeps
the water out of the poorly-designed bearing? Ever seen its guts? I
learned how from a Merc mechanic. When he took it apart, we found the
shaft seal GONE! The damned Mercury Platinum Dealer's expert mechanic
didn't seat it properly and the shaft just tore it off, running the bearing
on seawater, sand and what little oil didn't leak out. I learned how to do
it myself so it wouldn't happen again. Your dealer hasn't a clue about
Sport Jets and DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW.... He fixes OUTBOARDS.

There is no stator, only a shaft with a rotor on it.


If you take it apart, be SURE to put grease on the 4 stainless bolts that
screw into the cheap aluminum housing.....OR THEY'LL SEIZE! It took us
over an hour to work them loose without breaking them off INSIDE the
housing. My mechanic gave up. I took R-22 refrigerant and froze the bolt
to -50 C by dripping liquid freon onto the bolt head, shrinking the whole
bolt. That was the only way it will come off. DON'T LET THEM HEAT IT WITH
A TORCH as it will really screw up the Merc paint job and ruin the pump.
Freezing the bolts, then working them back and forth, got mine off. They
were hard seized! STUPID DEALERS! The grease keeps the electrolysis from
INSIDE the bolt holes just fine.

The housing is stainless steel. You still want to protect the bolts going
in, but they use something like blue loctite to prevent their vibrating
out. You couldn't separate the pump from the engine without taking the
engine out of the boat. That would be really difficult - I hope I never
have to do that. I don't think there is a rear seal, instead a shaft
comes down vertically from the engine and engages a right angle drive which
turns the pump rotor.


Just a few hints. I loved my Sport Jet, the 175hp carb'd model. Mine was
a Sea Rayder F16XR2 16' yellow with purple bimini. Chick magnet!

Mine is very pretty as well, but I'd like it more if it were a better boat!

Oh, one more hint to save your Sport Jet.......
Take the flywheel off the top of it with a proper puller. The core of the
stator coils (about $300 at a dealer) is OPEN TO THE WET! Idiots....My
first one rusted solid, shorting out the magnetic fields and stranding me
with no spark! Before yours rusts solid, and it will, GREASE the surface
of the soft iron cores wherever you can see them around where the magnets
whirl around the outside of them. Grease up the inside of the flywheel,
too, to keep the magnets from corroding all up. The new core, an
aftermarket product better than Mercury's, never rusted or corroded at all
coated with a nice layer of marine grease....(c; The guy I sold it to has
never had a problem with it in 2 years.

I've never had the plastic top off, but this uses EFI so it might not be
the same engine.

I have to say, however, that the first engine I had died after 3 weeks
leaving me stranded in the middle of a (thankfully very popular) lake. I
got a tow to shore. It turned out that one of the fuel injectors broke
inside the engine scarring up the head and gouging a cylinder wall. Merc
wanted to fix it, but I had my dealer insist and they replaced the entire
engine. Well, that's what he said, but it turned out to be what we used to
call a "short block" and one of the air injectors was bad as well. They
fixed that, but it took over a month and the season is short here. The
dealer loaned me a bigger boat while this went on, thank goodness.


Remove the chinzy oil injection made out of PLASTIC and all its plumbing.
The hole the pump fits into has a cover plate you can get from the dealer
for free after you remove the gear drive. Every new powerhead has this
coverplate on it and dealers just toss them away as they re-install the oil
injection nightmare. Mix your fuel at 40:1, oil company brands TC-W3. 1
quart to every 10 gallons of gas...or close to that, not critical. After a
thousand hours of running premix gas, the inside of the cylinders is barely
worn, the rings still real tight and in good condition and all the bearings
in the crankcase are LUBED, not dry like 100:1 oil injection the way the
greenies and government bureaucrats want them. The new owner still mixes
oil at 40:1 in the tank and at 1600 hours on a 1997 Sport Jet it purrs like
a kitten. LOTS of powerheads are blown by oil injection failures, STILL!

Thanks for the tip, but with EFI, you don't even use regular oil, it must
be synthetic. This stuff ain't cheap! This year it was $38.00/gallon.
Every mechanic has told me NOT to use regular oil - that it will damage the
engine. The oil injectors are metal, not plastic, btw. If any injector
fails, there is a warning system that lets you know. There is a computer
similar to those on automobiles on this engine.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/16/05 9:38:03 PM

Larry wrote in :

There is no stator, only a shaft with a rotor on it.


The stator is behind the impeller. It is necessary to stop the rotational
flow of the water and redirect the thrust straight out the nozzle. They
are fixed vanes around the housing of the rear shaft bearing, the back of
which is a cone into the center of the nozzle to increase pressure and flow
speed.

--
Larry

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:47:50 -0400, Larry wrote:

Larry wrote in :

There is no stator, only a shaft with a rotor on it.


The stator is behind the impeller. It is necessary to stop the rotational
flow of the water and redirect the thrust straight out the nozzle. They
are fixed vanes around the housing of the rear shaft bearing, the back of
which is a cone into the center of the nozzle to increase pressure and flow
speed.

Ok, I'll check for it. The very last thing closest to the opening turns,
but perhaps there is something else I didn't notice. For example, there
might be a strut further towards the bow. Thanks.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/18/05 10:46:09 AM

Larry wrote in :

The housing is stainless steel. You still want to protect the bolts
going in, but they use something like blue loctite to prevent their
vibrating out. You couldn't separate the pump from the engine without
taking the engine out of the boat. That would be really difficult - I
hope I never have to do that. I don't think there is a rear seal,
instead a shaft comes down vertically from the engine and engages a
right angle drive which turns the pump rotor.


The bearing I'm talking about is AFT of the impeller, running in a high
pressure zone in the impeller's outlet. The seal is on the forward end of
the stator vanes, right behind the impeller. This bearing, by the way, is
necessary to hold the impeller straight in the hole it sits in, keeping it
from touching the walls around it.

I still doubt old Brunswick made a pump out of solid stainless steel.
Noone could afford to buy that much machine work. It might have a
stainless sleeve inside the pump around the impeller jetskiiers call a
"wear ring". "Things" in the water get wedged between the impeller and its
wear ring which is what causes the circular gouges you see in the pump.

The rear bearing still requires maintenance...as does its pump bearing
seal. Order the service manual from the dealer or Merc and do it very
carefully.

--
Larry

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:53:30 -0400, Larry wrote:

Larry wrote in :

The housing is stainless steel. You still want to protect the bolts
going in, but they use something like blue loctite to prevent their
vibrating out. You couldn't separate the pump from the engine without
taking the engine out of the boat. That would be really difficult - I
hope I never have to do that. I don't think there is a rear seal,
instead a shaft comes down vertically from the engine and engages a
right angle drive which turns the pump rotor.


The bearing I'm talking about is AFT of the impeller, running in a high
pressure zone in the impeller's outlet. The seal is on the forward end of
the stator vanes, right behind the impeller. This bearing, by the way, is
necessary to hold the impeller straight in the hole it sits in, keeping it
from touching the walls around it.

I tried to answer this earlier, but something ate my response.

The shaft descends vertically from the engine fore of the pump. Water is
pulled up through the grate and propelled out directly aft. It probably
uses the wear ring you mention. I didn't see a stator, but I'll have
another look.


I still doubt old Brunswick made a pump out of solid stainless steel.
Noone could afford to buy that much machine work. It might have a
stainless sleeve inside the pump around the impeller jetskiiers call a
"wear ring". "Things" in the water get wedged between the impeller and its
wear ring which is what causes the circular gouges you see in the pump.

Brunswick sold Mercury to Bombardier several years ago. I believe
Bombardier also owns Johnson and Evninrude - what used to be Outboard
Marine. Bombardier also owns SeaDoo.

My experience with rocks was that they wedged between the impeller and the
wear ring you speak of. I didn't get any gouges and the net effect of the
experience seems to be the loss of 1 knot of speed.

The rear bearing still requires maintenance...as does its pump bearing
seal. Order the service manual from the dealer or Merc and do it very
carefully.

That's a great idea - I'm going to do it. Also it will tell me how to fog
the motor. I had the dealer do that last year and it cost me US$ 145.00
whcih seems like a lot for something that simple.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/18/05 11:01:07 AM

Larry wrote in :

I've never had the plastic top off, but this uses EFI so it might not
be the same engine.

I have to say, however, that the first engine I had died after 3 weeks
leaving me stranded in the middle of a (thankfully very popular) lake.
I got a tow to shore. It turned out that one of the fuel injectors
broke inside the engine scarring up the head and gouging a cylinder
wall. Merc wanted to fix it, but I had my dealer insist and they
replaced the entire engine. Well, that's what he said, but it turned
out to be what we used to call a "short block" and one of the air
injectors was bad as well. They fixed that, but it took over a month
and the season is short here. The dealer loaned me a bigger boat
while this went on, thank goodness.


God, how awful! Is this thing a Ficht or Merc's abortion of it? I was
under the impression they were using manifold fuel injection, not that
awful direct 2-stroke injection that bankrupted OMC and nearly Brunswick.
I'd NEVER own one of those!

If this had happened to me, I'd have been talking about a refund, not a
repair. Sure glad mine was a regular 2-stroke V-6 with carbs they'd been
making since 1983....

--
Larry

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:57:34 -0400, Larry wrote:

Larry wrote in :

I've never had the plastic top off, but this uses EFI so it might not
be the same engine.

I have to say, however, that the first engine I had died after 3 weeks
leaving me stranded in the middle of a (thankfully very popular) lake.
I got a tow to shore. It turned out that one of the fuel injectors
broke inside the engine scarring up the head and gouging a cylinder
wall. Merc wanted to fix it, but I had my dealer insist and they
replaced the entire engine. Well, that's what he said, but it turned
out to be what we used to call a "short block" and one of the air
injectors was bad as well. They fixed that, but it took over a month
and the season is short here. The dealer loaned me a bigger boat
while this went on, thank goodness.


God, how awful! Is this thing a Ficht or Merc's abortion of it? I was
under the impression they were using manifold fuel injection, not that
awful direct 2-stroke injection that bankrupted OMC and nearly Brunswick.
I'd NEVER own one of those!

I have no idea. The replacement motor has now gone for 2 1/2 seasons with
no problems however. I don't know if they are using manifold or direct.
EFI is just what they call it.

If this had happened to me, I'd have been talking about a refund, not a
repair. Sure glad mine was a regular 2-stroke V-6 with carbs they'd been
making since 1983....

I think all small marine engines are using some form of fuel injection. I
don't know if they are doing it to reduce emissions, boost mileage, or
boost power, but it seems to be common to I/O's, outboards, or jets.

I didn't ask for a refund since the dealer fought to get me a new engine
and provided a very nice boat as a loaner. But, if I had it to do again,
I'd get something entirely different. It would be larger and probably use
two outboards and would be better to setup for fishing.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/18/05 10:55:23 AM

Reply in line way down.

Larry wrote:
On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:57:34 -0400, Larry wrote:


Larry wrote in :


I've never had the plastic top off, but this uses EFI so it might not
be the same engine.

I have to say, however, that the first engine I had died after 3 weeks
leaving me stranded in the middle of a (thankfully very popular) lake.
I got a tow to shore. It turned out that one of the fuel injectors
broke inside the engine scarring up the head and gouging a cylinder
wall. Merc wanted to fix it, but I had my dealer insist and they
replaced the entire engine. Well, that's what he said, but it turned
out to be what we used to call a "short block" and one of the air
injectors was bad as well. They fixed that, but it took over a month
and the season is short here. The dealer loaned me a bigger boat
while this went on, thank goodness.


God, how awful! Is this thing a Ficht or Merc's abortion of it? I was
under the impression they were using manifold fuel injection, not that
awful direct 2-stroke injection that bankrupted OMC and nearly Brunswick.
I'd NEVER own one of those!


I have no idea. The replacement motor has now gone for 2 1/2 seasons with
no problems however. I don't know if they are using manifold or direct.
EFI is just what they call it.


If this had happened to me, I'd have been talking about a refund, not a
repair. Sure glad mine was a regular 2-stroke V-6 with carbs they'd been
making since 1983....


I think all small marine engines are using some form of fuel injection. I
don't know if they are doing it to reduce emissions, boost mileage, or
boost power, but it seems to be common to I/O's, outboards, or jets.

As an ex-Detroit development engineer - Trust me - the only reason the
manufacturers are going to electronic injection systems is emissions.
What you also have to remember is that almost all (not quite yet) all
the "marine" engines on the market started out as passcar motors and
then were re-applied to stationary and marine service. If they tried,
few could even meet stationary emissions with a conventional carb, but
that is almost a moot point as the hardward (carb, manifold, fuel pump,
and a conventional distributer) are simply not available anymore. Yes,
they can get some horsepower sometimes, but the market volume is not
there to justify the tooling and certification costs.
Matt Colie



I didn't ask for a refund since the dealer fought to get me a new engine
and provided a very nice boat as a loaner. But, if I had it to do again,
I'd get something entirely different. It would be larger and probably use
two outboards and would be better to setup for fishing.