Possibility of autopilot for jet boat
 

I have a three year old Bombardier Utopia 185. It is powered by a Mercury
200 hp jet drive. I would like to use this for fishing, but you absolutely
cannot take your hands off the wheel, particularly at low speeds. Steering
is accomplished by a push pull cable arangement which connects to a
steerable pipe under water.

I've been trying to find an autopilot that would work at trolling speeds,
but have been able to find anything. The Nautamatic TR1 requires hydraulic
steering, the Raymarine Sport Pilot Plus require some kind of rudder
feedback which would mean attaching a cylinder or rotary actuator under
water and none of them appear waterproof. The factory has told me that the
plain Sport Pilot would not work because a jet boat responds too quickly.

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/13/05 10:23:44 AM

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack


--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/14/05 10:04:52 AM

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/14/05 10:04:52 AM

Larry,
look at fitting something like the Raymarine ST3000 wheel pilot. This is as
fitted to my motorsailer with push-pull steering, and does not need a rudder
feedback. Also, the compass unit is in the control head, so only the control
head and drive motor fitted, with belt drive to the steering wheel.

The ST4000 (I believe) requires a separate compass unit.

Go to the Raymarine website for some more information.

regards,
Philip.

Larry wrote:

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:


Larry wrote:


Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack


The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.

If you can turn the jet by hand and the wheel will go with it, maybe one
of the accessory market autopilots made for use with tiller steered
boats or for direct attachment to motors can be made to work.

You basically need to find a place with enough room where you can anchor
one end of an autopilot attached to a point on the jet that will swivel
it right and left. Here is a link to one made by Raymarine as an
example, there are others on the market. Check out places and catalogs
like West Marine or BoatUS to get some others to consider:

http://tinyurl.com/7v66k

You might be a fringe market, seems like most of the jet boat drivers
want to do it by hand so that they can quickly irritate every single
other boat driver within their vision. I'm joking of course, no insult
intended.

Jack


--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com)

Simrad makes a "Virtual feedback" pilot. Also their Mechanical drive has
built in feedback. I've no idea what kind of drive unit you need or if they
have one that would work for you.
http://www.simradusa.com/1-virtualpilot.php

"Larry" wrote in message ...
I have a three year old Bombardier Utopia 185. It is powered by a Mercury
200 hp jet drive. I would like to use this for fishing, but you
absolutely
cannot take your hands off the wheel, particularly at low speeds.
Steering
is accomplished by a push pull cable arangement which connects to a
steerable pipe under water.

I've been trying to find an autopilot that would work at trolling speeds,
but have been able to find anything. The Nautamatic TR1 requires
hydraulic
steering, the Raymarine Sport Pilot Plus require some kind of rudder
feedback which would mean attaching a cylinder or rotary actuator under
water and none of them appear waterproof. The factory has told me that
the
plain Sport Pilot would not work because a jet boat responds too quickly.

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/13/05 10:23:44 AM

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:17:43 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/14/05 10:04:52 AM

Larry,
look at fitting something like the Raymarine ST3000 wheel pilot. This is as
fitted to my motorsailer with push-pull steering, and does not need a rudder
feedback. Also, the compass unit is in the control head, so only the control
head and drive motor fitted, with belt drive to the steering wheel.

The ST4000 (I believe) requires a separate compass unit.

Go to the Raymarine website for some more information.

regards,
Philip.

Thanks, Philip,

Well, I asked Raymarine and they said the ST3000 would not work, nor will
any unit they manufacture. He said that use of any autopilot with a jet
boat requires something which sends the cpu the actual position of the
rudder (jet in my case). Also, it would be extremely difficult to attach a
motor to the wheel as there is no room.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/15/05 11:32:52 AM

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:30:26 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:


Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.

If you can turn the jet by hand and the wheel will go with it, maybe one
of the accessory market autopilots made for use with tiller steered
boats or for direct attachment to motors can be made to work.

You basically need to find a place with enough room where you can anchor
one end of an autopilot attached to a point on the jet that will swivel
it right and left. Here is a link to one made by Raymarine as an
example, there are others on the market. Check out places and catalogs
like West Marine or BoatUS to get some others to consider:

http://tinyurl.com/7v66k

You might be a fringe market, seems like most of the jet boat drivers
want to do it by hand so that they can quickly irritate every single
other boat driver within their vision. I'm joking of course, no insult
intended.

Jack

Thanks, Jack,

You bet we're a fringe market! However, this isn't a jetski, it's an
actual boat! In fact, one of the finest boats you can buy - Hinckley -
uses jet drives. They have the advantage of having nothing hanging below
the bottom to get banged up by rocks. Thus, it is uniquely equipped for
fishing in shallow water providing you don't suck up mud into the pump!

The problem is that the steering mechanism for the jet is under water.
Thus, any drive which moves the jet also has to be. Nautamatic suggested I
replace the steering mechanism with a hydraulic one, but that is close to
impossible.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/15/05 11:38:32 AM

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:16:36 -0700, johnhh wrote:

Simrad makes a "Virtual feedback" pilot. Also their Mechanical drive has
built in feedback. I've no idea what kind of drive unit you need or if they
have one that would work for you.
http://www.simradusa.com/1-virtualpilot.php

Thanks, I'll give them a call.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/15/05 11:43:45 AM

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:17:43 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or
turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/14/05 10:04:52 AM

Larry,
look at fitting something like the Raymarine ST3000 wheel pilot. This is
as
fitted to my motorsailer with push-pull steering, and does not need a
rudder
feedback. Also, the compass unit is in the control head, so only the
control
head and drive motor fitted, with belt drive to the steering wheel.

The ST4000 (I believe) requires a separate compass unit.

Go to the Raymarine website for some more information.

regards,
Philip.

Thanks, Philip,

Well, I asked Raymarine and they said the ST3000 would not work, nor will
any unit they manufacture. He said that use of any autopilot with a jet
boat requires something which sends the cpu the actual position of the
rudder (jet in my case). Also, it would be extremely difficult to attach
a
motor to the wheel as there is no room.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/15/05 11:32:52 AM

Larry,
I hear what they say, but my ST3000 has no feedback or any way of knowing
where the rudder is when I engage the drive. It just uses the compass to
keep a heading and adjust steering to keep on course.

It is a pity it will not fit, but other than this, I don't think the person
you spoke to actually knew the unit and its capability properly - if at all.

regards,
Philip