On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:45:21 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:58:50 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:17:43 +0100, Philip wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
news On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:45:11 -0400, Jack Erbes wrote:

Larry wrote:

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks,

No friction clutches or drag adjustments on any of the cables or
turning
spools? Maybe you could add one somewhere.

Jack

The cable is a single cable - push/pull. Not certain how I could
change
that in any way. That said, there is no slack in it at all, so I am
wondering why rudder feedback is even needed.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/14/05 10:04:52 AM

Larry,
look at fitting something like the Raymarine ST3000 wheel pilot. This
is
as
fitted to my motorsailer with push-pull steering, and does not need a
rudder
feedback. Also, the compass unit is in the control head, so only the
control
head and drive motor fitted, with belt drive to the steering wheel.

The ST4000 (I believe) requires a separate compass unit.

Go to the Raymarine website for some more information.

regards,
Philip.

Thanks, Philip,

Well, I asked Raymarine and they said the ST3000 would not work, nor
will
any unit they manufacture. He said that use of any autopilot with a
jet
boat requires something which sends the cpu the actual position of the
rudder (jet in my case). Also, it would be extremely difficult to
attach
a
motor to the wheel as there is no room.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/15/05 11:32:52 AM

Larry,
I hear what they say, but my ST3000 has no feedback or any way of knowing
where the rudder is when I engage the drive. It just uses the compass to
keep a heading and adjust steering to keep on course.

It is a pity it will not fit, but other than this, I don't think the
person
you spoke to actually knew the unit and its capability properly - if at
all.

regards,
Philip

I agree with both. I'm in a bind in that I am willing to spend the money,
but ONLY if I can make something that works. I wish there were a way to
connect a plain ordinary Sport Pilot to my wheel as it does not require
rudder feedback and it will fit. That way I could test and see how bad it
really is. Likewise the ST3000. The guy to whom I spoke seemed concerned
that a jet boat tends to respond very quickly to changes in the tube
(corresponds with a rudder). If there were a way to vary the sensitivity
of the unit, I might gamble.... Again, thanks for your help, Philip.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/16/05 9:27:23 PM

Larry,
have a read of page 59 of
http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/S...3000_wheel.pdf

Maybe it will allow you to set it to either fast or slow response.

My motor-sailer has a very quick response to the wheel, and the ST3000 copes
perfectly - except when I am sailing with a quarter or following wind. But
then again, I have a problem steering with that angle of wind!!

regards, and I hope you find something that will work
Philip,

I'm beginning to think that I may have been given the wrong advice by
Raymarine. I realize, however, that it is doubtful that I can expect any
help from them. Perhaps either the 3000 or the Sport Pilot might be able
to be made to work. The Sport Pilot is a very easy install. The 3000 may
have different electronics. I'll have a closer look.

In my situation, even if the rudder gain is incorrect, I wouldn't care
since I principally want to be able to take my hands off the wheel to setup
the downriggers, so if the boat is just heading in the approximate
direction, that's ok.

Thanks for the help.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/18/05 10:36:49 AM

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:47:50 -0400, Larry wrote:

Larry wrote in :

There is no stator, only a shaft with a rotor on it.


The stator is behind the impeller. It is necessary to stop the rotational
flow of the water and redirect the thrust straight out the nozzle. They
are fixed vanes around the housing of the rear shaft bearing, the back of
which is a cone into the center of the nozzle to increase pressure and flow
speed.

Ok, I'll check for it. The very last thing closest to the opening turns,
but perhaps there is something else I didn't notice. For example, there
might be a strut further towards the bow. Thanks.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/18/05 10:46:09 AM

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:57:34 -0400, Larry wrote:

Larry wrote in :

I've never had the plastic top off, but this uses EFI so it might not
be the same engine.

I have to say, however, that the first engine I had died after 3 weeks
leaving me stranded in the middle of a (thankfully very popular) lake.
I got a tow to shore. It turned out that one of the fuel injectors
broke inside the engine scarring up the head and gouging a cylinder
wall. Merc wanted to fix it, but I had my dealer insist and they
replaced the entire engine. Well, that's what he said, but it turned
out to be what we used to call a "short block" and one of the air
injectors was bad as well. They fixed that, but it took over a month
and the season is short here. The dealer loaned me a bigger boat
while this went on, thank goodness.


God, how awful! Is this thing a Ficht or Merc's abortion of it? I was
under the impression they were using manifold fuel injection, not that
awful direct 2-stroke injection that bankrupted OMC and nearly Brunswick.
I'd NEVER own one of those!

I have no idea. The replacement motor has now gone for 2 1/2 seasons with
no problems however. I don't know if they are using manifold or direct.
EFI is just what they call it.

If this had happened to me, I'd have been talking about a refund, not a
repair. Sure glad mine was a regular 2-stroke V-6 with carbs they'd been
making since 1983....

I think all small marine engines are using some form of fuel injection. I
don't know if they are doing it to reduce emissions, boost mileage, or
boost power, but it seems to be common to I/O's, outboards, or jets.

I didn't ask for a refund since the dealer fought to get me a new engine
and provided a very nice boat as a loaner. But, if I had it to do again,
I'd get something entirely different. It would be larger and probably use
two outboards and would be better to setup for fishing.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/18/05 10:55:23 AM

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:53:30 -0400, Larry wrote:

Larry wrote in :

The housing is stainless steel. You still want to protect the bolts
going in, but they use something like blue loctite to prevent their
vibrating out. You couldn't separate the pump from the engine without
taking the engine out of the boat. That would be really difficult - I
hope I never have to do that. I don't think there is a rear seal,
instead a shaft comes down vertically from the engine and engages a
right angle drive which turns the pump rotor.


The bearing I'm talking about is AFT of the impeller, running in a high
pressure zone in the impeller's outlet. The seal is on the forward end of
the stator vanes, right behind the impeller. This bearing, by the way, is
necessary to hold the impeller straight in the hole it sits in, keeping it
from touching the walls around it.

I tried to answer this earlier, but something ate my response.

The shaft descends vertically from the engine fore of the pump. Water is
pulled up through the grate and propelled out directly aft. It probably
uses the wear ring you mention. I didn't see a stator, but I'll have
another look.


I still doubt old Brunswick made a pump out of solid stainless steel.
Noone could afford to buy that much machine work. It might have a
stainless sleeve inside the pump around the impeller jetskiiers call a
"wear ring". "Things" in the water get wedged between the impeller and its
wear ring which is what causes the circular gouges you see in the pump.

Brunswick sold Mercury to Bombardier several years ago. I believe
Bombardier also owns Johnson and Evninrude - what used to be Outboard
Marine. Bombardier also owns SeaDoo.

My experience with rocks was that they wedged between the impeller and the
wear ring you speak of. I didn't get any gouges and the net effect of the
experience seems to be the loss of 1 knot of speed.

The rear bearing still requires maintenance...as does its pump bearing
seal. Order the service manual from the dealer or Merc and do it very
carefully.

That's a great idea - I'm going to do it. Also it will tell me how to fog
the motor. I had the dealer do that last year and it cost me US$ 145.00
whcih seems like a lot for something that simple.
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/18/05 11:01:07 AM

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 16:08:38 -0400, Larry wrote:

Larry wrote in :

Thanks for the tip, but with EFI, you don't even use regular oil, it
must be synthetic. This stuff ain't cheap! This year it was
$38.00/gallon. Every mechanic has told me NOT to use regular oil -
that it will damage the engine. The oil injectors are metal, not
plastic, btw. If any injector fails, there is a warning system that
lets you know. There is a computer similar to those on automobiles on
this engine. --


Yecch....no thanks. My local See Doo Doo dealer is a crook so it's not an
issue here. I'd never buy one of those awful direct injection two strokes
with all their history of failures.

You might be interested in a little bit of FEDERAL law I learned all about
when returning to that same crooked ******* my 1997 Yamaha GP1200
waverunner. The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act has a clause in it
that says:

"(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by
Commission
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied
warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such
product, any article or service (other than article or service provided
without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by
brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this
subsection may be waived by the Commission if—

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will
function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in
connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest."

15USC50 section 2302 (c)......current as of today.

If they tell you you MUST use their brand of some special oil, and the
Federal Trade Commission hasn't given them a waiver to weasle out of this
law, they Brunswick has to GIVE YOU THE OIL FREE for the life of the
product. It's Federal Law....

My dealer never said that, but it was stated by the SeaDoo dealer near
Moosehead Lake, Maine. I found out that you can use ANY synthetic oil made
for EFI or DFI and there are many brands, so that isn't an issue. It's
still more expensive than regular oil, however.

That's why Ford doesn't tell you you MUST use Motorcraft Oil to keep a Ford
warranty in force. The law was designed to prevent deception. If pressed
properly, you can probably get the ripoff $38/gallon oil FREE!

Of course, they'll all try the bully bull**** first....(c;
--

Larry
email is rapp at lmr dot com
09/18/05 11:07:44 AM

Reply in line way down.

Larry wrote:
On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:57:34 -0400, Larry wrote:


Larry wrote in :


I've never had the plastic top off, but this uses EFI so it might not
be the same engine.

I have to say, however, that the first engine I had died after 3 weeks
leaving me stranded in the middle of a (thankfully very popular) lake.
I got a tow to shore. It turned out that one of the fuel injectors
broke inside the engine scarring up the head and gouging a cylinder
wall. Merc wanted to fix it, but I had my dealer insist and they
replaced the entire engine. Well, that's what he said, but it turned
out to be what we used to call a "short block" and one of the air
injectors was bad as well. They fixed that, but it took over a month
and the season is short here. The dealer loaned me a bigger boat
while this went on, thank goodness.


God, how awful! Is this thing a Ficht or Merc's abortion of it? I was
under the impression they were using manifold fuel injection, not that
awful direct 2-stroke injection that bankrupted OMC and nearly Brunswick.
I'd NEVER own one of those!


I have no idea. The replacement motor has now gone for 2 1/2 seasons with
no problems however. I don't know if they are using manifold or direct.
EFI is just what they call it.


If this had happened to me, I'd have been talking about a refund, not a
repair. Sure glad mine was a regular 2-stroke V-6 with carbs they'd been
making since 1983....


I think all small marine engines are using some form of fuel injection. I
don't know if they are doing it to reduce emissions, boost mileage, or
boost power, but it seems to be common to I/O's, outboards, or jets.

As an ex-Detroit development engineer - Trust me - the only reason the
manufacturers are going to electronic injection systems is emissions.
What you also have to remember is that almost all (not quite yet) all
the "marine" engines on the market started out as passcar motors and
then were re-applied to stationary and marine service. If they tried,
few could even meet stationary emissions with a conventional carb, but
that is almost a moot point as the hardward (carb, manifold, fuel pump,
and a conventional distributer) are simply not available anymore. Yes,
they can get some horsepower sometimes, but the market volume is not
there to justify the tooling and certification costs.
Matt Colie



I didn't ask for a refund since the dealer fought to get me a new engine
and provided a very nice boat as a loaner. But, if I had it to do again,
I'd get something entirely different. It would be larger and probably use
two outboards and would be better to setup for fishing.