"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
Duh! the two batteries are in series. The one with the 12v tap cannot
become
more discharged than the one without because the battery without the tap
will charge the one with. Or the one with will discharge the one without
until they are both the same. This is the same thing that happens with
individual cells in a 12v battery. With two 12v batteries in a series one
simply has more cells in a series.

If you became familiar with the concept of batteries in series and batteries
in parallel, then come back and review your own reply.

Meindert

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:cbu8e.7195$Z73.4465@lakeread04...
Why all this ranting over a proven fact that drawing 12V off of one
battery
of a 24V bank is not a good idea? A 40 amp 24/12 DC/DC converter capable
of running all the electronics on the boat can be bought for the price of
a
couple of golf cart batteries.

This is nonsense!

I agree with you completely, Glenn. It's just that I cannot stand those
people who claim to be in the know, are misinforming people who aren't.

Meindert

In article ,
Capt. Neal® wrote:

Duh! the two batteries are in series. The one with the 12v tap cannot become
more discharged than the one without because the battery without the tap
will charge the one with. Or the one with will discharge the one without
until they are both the same. This is the same thing that happens with
individual cells in a 12v battery. With two 12v batteries in a series one
simply has more cells in a series.

CN

Duhhh, Hay Capt. Neal......

Son, you better go back to your Basic Electrical School, and ask for
a refund of your tuition. You didn't learn a thing, about DC Systems.
The above is total nonsense, and has to basis in FACT. The current in
a series string is the SAME, anywhere in the series string, and limited
by the highest resistance element in that string. No charge will flow
from one cell in a series string to another cell, in that same series
string, and they will NEVER balance themselves out during discharge.
That is what and Equilizing Charge does, and that is deterimental
to the battery cells that have lower internal resistance, as the
Equilizing Charge brings those cells with Higher Resistance up to
full charge. The only reason for doing an Equilizing Charge, is that
it is less detrimental to the total battery to overcharge the good cells,
then it would be to allow the weaker cells to continue to be
undercharged.

Best you stick to navigation, and leave the Blackgang Stuff to the
engineers......


Me

In article ,
Capt. Neal® wrote:

I disagree. Two 12v batteries in series to make a 24v battery will self-level
with respect to charge.

They will self level even if one is tapped to run a VHF. No harm will come
to either battery. Voltage can be likened to pressure.

I hope this helps.

CN

bullcrap.... Better to leave the Blackgang stuff to the engineers that
know what they are talking about......

Me

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ...
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...
Duh! the two batteries are in series. The one with the 12v tap cannot
become
more discharged than the one without because the battery without the tap
will charge the one with. Or the one with will discharge the one without
until they are both the same. This is the same thing that happens with
individual cells in a 12v battery. With two 12v batteries in a series one
simply has more cells in a series.

If you became familiar with the concept of batteries in series and batteries
in parallel, then come back and review your own reply.


Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and incorrect!
How can some people's minds be so ineffective at thinking?

Just what the hell do you think a 12v lead acid battery is, anyway?
One giant 12v cell? NOT! A twelve-volt, flooded, lead/acid battery
consists of six cells of approx 2.2v each. These cells are in a series.
When the battery is charged, electrons move through all the cells or
the battery will not be charged. Open one cell and the whole battery
will show dead because no current can move though the collection
of cells in a series but the cells that are not open will show approx.
2.2 volts each. As long as the cells are all connected and none of
them are open (or shorted) the battery works as a unit.

Perhaps you ******s would understand it better using flashlight D cells
as an example. Take one D cell that is half charged (Ni-Cad) and put it into
a two-cell flashlight in the company of another NI-Cad) D cell that is fully
charged and turn on the switch. The bulb will light and current will
pass through the circuit. As well as working to light the bulb, the
fully-charged cell will discharge into the half charge cell until
the voltage in both cells equalizes.

There is no difference between two 12v batteries in a series. As long
as the two batteries are are part of a circuit, which is the case in any
yacht (unless an isloation switch is turned off so the circuit is no more)
then, as is the case in the flashlight example, the two batteries will
equalize and they will do so even if one battery has more of a load
on it than the other because of a 12v tap to run a VHF.

Anytime the two 12v batteries in series are not part of a circuit then
the battery with the 12v tap will have its voltage lowered and the
battery without the tap will remain unaffected. Two 12v batteries
connected in series but not part of a circuit remain, for all practical
purposes, two separate batteries.

You need to learn how circuits work before you spew your nonsense,
Mr. Sprang. It seems to me you're confused when it comes to knowing
the difference between volts (pressure) and amps (flow). Batteries
always have voltage unless discharged but they only have amperage if
they are part of a circuit. Since the batteries, connected as part
of a circuit in Nigel's yacht, are in series in the circuit they will
both have equal voltage as long as they remain part of said circuit.


I hope this helps.

CN

Capt. Neal® wrote:

You need to learn how circuits work before you spew your nonsense,
Mr. Sprang.

Hmm. Perhaps he should stop being a professional electronics engineer
too, eh?

Pete

"Me" wrote in message ...
In article ,
Capt. Neal® wrote:

I disagree. Two 12v batteries in series to make a 24v battery will self-level
with respect to charge.

They will self level even if one is tapped to run a VHF. No harm will come
to either battery. Voltage can be likened to pressure.

I hope this helps.

CN

bullcrap.... Better to leave the Blackgang stuff to the engineers that
know what they are talking about......

Me


I'm an electrician. Don't insult me with this engineer crap. I know how
batteries work and I know circuits - particularly DC circuits.

You idiots are only correct provided there is no circuit to which the
two 12v batteries in series are connected. In any yacht I've ever
been on the batteries are part of a circuit of there would be no
use to have them aboard other than as ballast.

In Nigel's case, tapping off one of two batteries connected in series in
a circuit to run his VHF will not cause only the tapped battery to discharge
as the voltage in the circuit will be lowered and not just the voltage
in the tapped battery.

Only if the two batteries were disconnected from the circuit would
the tapped battery discharge more than the untapped battery.

C'mon, folks, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure something
this basic out.

CN

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ...
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:cbu8e.7195$Z73.4465@lakeread04...
Why all this ranting over a proven fact that drawing 12V off of one
battery
of a 24V bank is not a good idea? A 40 amp 24/12 DC/DC converter capable
of running all the electronics on the boat can be bought for the price of
a
couple of golf cart batteries.

This is nonsense!

I agree with you completely, Glenn. It's just that I cannot stand those
people who claim to be in the know, are misinforming people who aren't.

Meindert


You don't know squat about batteries in a circuit, Mr. Sprang. You are
the one doing the misinforming.

Read my other posts and do something about your ignorance.
Read this one, too. Perhaps if you read the truth three or
four times it just might sink in.

Nigel doesn't need anything but a couple of wires tapped off one
of the batteries in his series circuit and as long as a circuit is maintained
the two batteries will take and maintain an equal charge, irregardless
of the tap. It's only when the two batteries are isolated from the circuit
by a switch of some sort that the tapped battery will discharge and
the untapped battery will not be affected. Unless there is a circuit
there is no such thing as batteries connected in series. Connected in
a series implies or necessitates a circuit.

You can line up 20 flashlight D cells end to end and say they are connected
in series but until you complete a circuit they remain separate and distinct
cells. If you tap off the one in the center it will discharge and all the
others will not be affected but as soon as you connect them to a circuit
the discharged battery (ni-cad in this case) will become charged up at
the expense of the others until its voltage is raised and the others 'voltage
is lowered proportionally.

I hope this simple example will reduce your fogged thinking.

CN

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ...
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:cbu8e.7195$Z73.4465@lakeread04...
Why all this ranting over a proven fact that drawing 12V off of one
battery
of a 24V bank is not a good idea? A 40 amp 24/12 DC/DC converter capable
of running all the electronics on the boat can be bought for the price of
a
couple of golf cart batteries.

This is nonsense!

I agree with you completely, Glenn. It's just that I cannot stand those
people who claim to be in the know, are misinforming people who aren't.

Meindert


You don't know squat about batteries in a circuit, Mr. Sprang. You are
the one doing the misinforming.

Read my other posts and do something about your ignorance.
Read this one, too. Perhaps if you read the truth three or
four times it just might sink in.

Nigel doesn't need anything but a couple of wires tapped off one
of the batteries in his series circuit and as long as a circuit is maintained
the two batteries will take and maintain an equal charge, irregardless
of the tap. It's only when the two batteries are isolated from the circuit
by a switch of some sort that the tapped battery will discharge and
the untapped battery will not be affected. Unless there is a circuit
there is no such thing as batteries connected in series. Connected in
a series implies or necessitates a circuit.

You can line up 20 flashlight D cells end to end and say they are connected
in series but until you complete a circuit they remain separate and distinct
cells. If you tap off the one in the center it will discharge and all the
others will not be affected but as soon as you connect them to a circuit
the discharged battery (ni-cad in this case) will become charged up at
the expense of the others until its voltage is raised and the others 'voltage
is lowered proportionally.

I hope this simple example will reduce your fogged thinking.

CN

"Pete Verdon" d wrote in message ...
Capt. Neal® wrote:

You need to learn how circuits work before you spew your nonsense,
Mr. Sprang.

Hmm. Perhaps he should stop being a professional electronics engineer too, eh?

Pete

He needs to go back to school!

CN