"Bruce in Alaska" slid off his stool and shouted:

"Jack Painter" wrote:

Also, a U.S. vessel that plans to dock (or communicate) at a non-US port
of
call, must have a restricted radiotelephone operators license. This good
for
life (of the vessel you own and operate) and also does not involve any
exam.
The license covers vhf, hf, gmdss and radars with no description of
equipments required. It will include applying for an MMSI to be used
internationally.

Again, jackie is extending information that he doesn't understand.......

HEY JACK, How about you "GET A CLUE before you confuse folks with your
uninformed information.

First: A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON
not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be
an operator.

I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A
VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another
vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow
up or go back to your barstool.



Second: A US Flagged vessel, if it is to operate outside US Territorial
Waters, AND communicate with non-US Coast Stations, must have
a valid Ship Radio Station License issued by the FCC.


Here you go mixing up licenses again, forgetting the title and topic of this
newsgroup is RECREATIONAL boating. Only a Restricted Operators permit is
required for a recreational boater who wants to visit a foreign port. His
boat can remain "covered by the rule" which means no station license for
VHF-only, and the ROP covers his carriage of the radio, whether he uses it
OR NOT, in a foreign port.




Third: If, and only if, the vessel has fitted, only VHF Radios and,
or, a Marine S or Xband Radar, and does not communicated with
non-US Coast Stations, it MAY be covered by the Blanket License
issued by the FCC, which covers all such vessels in perpituity,
and does not require any action on the owners, or operators
parts as far as licensing is concerened.

That's called being "covered by the rule" and does not permit a vessel to
dock in a foreign port, which is why it's another of your useless comments
that serves only the interests of your strange ego.


Fourth:
/snipped unadulterated blabber
..
Fifth:
/snipped unadulterated blabber

Sixth:
/snipped unadulterated blabber


Now that we got that straight....... Carry on.......


Bruce in alaska who wishes that USCG would refrain from distributing
uninformed information.......

"Straight" is a concept difficult to apply to your posts.

The information I posted is current, accurate, and applies to the questions
posted by Wayne B. The rules have changed since the time you claimed to
have once been a field-rep for the FCC. Try to remember the "recreational"
concept of the newsgroup, please.

Best regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:04 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON
not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be
an operator.

I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A
VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another
vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow
up or go back to your barstool.
//
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia


I don't think that's right Jack.
An operators license follows the operator.

Brian W

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:31:06 GMT, Brian Whatcott wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:04 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON
not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be
an operator.

I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A
VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another
vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow
up or go back to your barstool.
//
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia


I don't think that's right Jack.
An operators license follows the operator.

Brian W

That's what I thought too...unless the rules have changed
since I got mine.
Norm B

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:48:50 -0800, engsol
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:31:06 GMT, Brian Whatcott wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:04 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON
not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be
an operator.

I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A
VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another
vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow
up or go back to your barstool.
//
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia


I don't think that's right Jack.
An operators license follows the operator.

Brian W

That's what I thought too...unless the rules have changed
since I got mine.
Norm B

Bruce is 100% correct on all he posted. Jack has a habit of becoming
an expert every time he reads a blurb of something whether he
understands it or not.

A restricted operators license has nothing to do with a vessel at all.
It only has to do with an individual. The holder of that restricted
license can operate a radio on any vessel that qualifies. It is a
lifetime permit for the individual.

The ship license is only good for the ship and the owner it was issued
to. It is not a lifetime license and needs to be renewed every 10
years, unless that has recently changed.
If the vessel is sold to a new owner the ship license becomes invalid.
It does not stay with the vessel or the old owner.
The new owner must obtain a new ship license if he is to operate the
radios with a need.

Regards
Gary

"Gary Schafer" wrote
Bruce is 100% correct on all he posted. Jack has a habit of becoming
an expert every time he reads a blurb of something whether he
understands it or not.

A restricted operators license has nothing to do with a vessel at all.
It only has to do with an individual. The holder of that restricted
license can operate a radio on any vessel that qualifies. It is a
lifetime permit for the individual.

The ship license is only good for the ship and the owner it was issued
to. It is not a lifetime license and needs to be renewed every 10
years, unless that has recently changed.
If the vessel is sold to a new owner the ship license becomes invalid.
It does not stay with the vessel or the old owner.
The new owner must obtain a new ship license if he is to operate the
radios with a need.

Regards
Gary

Gary, perhaps you want to weigh-in on the new Restricted Operators Permit
application. It
requires a STATED vessel or aircraft name and ID. If that changes, an
amended license (but with no additional fee) must be filed, resulting in a
new license according to the instructions on the application.

http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605main.pdf

Wrt Bruce's comments about MMSI, it is incorrect to assume that the "duly
appointed voluntary registrant" will record the vessel against US or (state)
records. I explained what a predicament BOAT-US got themselves into when
they took the lead in volunteering to record MMSI data for US boaters. FCC,
and possibly ITU, although it wasn't their problem, never provided specific
database requirements for BOAT-US recordkeeping. About a half million
registrations later, it became apparent that FCC and ITU would not recognize
BOAT-US issued MMSI's.

That's not an issue for US-only boaters who want their VHF DSC-capable
radios to have an MMSI registered to them. The FCC was not ready and had no
provision for issuing voluntarily-equipped boats (exempt and "licensed under
the rule" an MMSI, so BOAT-US took on a massive voluntary undertaking to
make it possible. Now, the old databases are not compatible, and boaters
can either reapply or accept that their old MMSI's cannot be used
internationally.

This might not have been a big issue in Alaska, but it sure was for boaters
all over Northwestern US border, the Great Lakes, and Florida.

Regards,
Jack

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:23:07 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:


"Gary Schafer" wrote
Bruce is 100% correct on all he posted. Jack has a habit of becoming
an expert every time he reads a blurb of something whether he
understands it or not.

A restricted operators license has nothing to do with a vessel at all.
It only has to do with an individual. The holder of that restricted
license can operate a radio on any vessel that qualifies. It is a
lifetime permit for the individual.

The ship license is only good for the ship and the owner it was issued
to. It is not a lifetime license and needs to be renewed every 10
years, unless that has recently changed.
If the vessel is sold to a new owner the ship license becomes invalid.
It does not stay with the vessel or the old owner.
The new owner must obtain a new ship license if he is to operate the
radios with a need.

Regards
Gary

Gary, perhaps you want to weigh-in on the new Restricted Operators Permit
application. It
requires a STATED vessel or aircraft name and ID. If that changes, an
amended license (but with no additional fee) must be filed, resulting in a
new license according to the instructions on the application.

http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605main.pdf

Read the heading on form 605. It is a multiple use form. It is used
for several different type license.

For the restricted radiotelephone license you also need schedule E.

The only time a restricted license is tied to a ship is if you are an
alien applying for a restricted operator license. It is good for only
the ship you applied for and or for a specific voyage.

That is entirely different from the regular restricted radiotelephone
permit, which has nothing to do with any ship, aircraft or call sign.

Regards
Gary

In article ,
Gary Schafer wrote:

Read the heading on form 605. It is a multiple use form. It is used
for several different type license.

For the restricted radiotelephone license you also need schedule E.

The only time a restricted license is tied to a ship is if you are an
alien applying for a restricted operator license. It is good for only
the ship you applied for and or for a specific voyage.

That is entirely different from the regular restricted radiotelephone
permit, which has nothing to do with any ship, aircraft or call sign.

Regards
Gary

Hi, again Gary,

I just finished a post to jackieboy, refering him to your above post,
which sets out in "Small Words", the answer to his Restricted
Radiotelephone Operator Permit question. I hope that he will be able to
comprehend the answer, and let this thread die a fast death. It seems
that navigating FCC Form 605 is just beyond his abilities, and from past
cases it would seem that the 605 can be confusing to alot of the boating
world. I appreciate you efforts to interpret form 605 to those folks.


Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:04 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON
not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be
an operator.

I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner
of A
VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to
another
vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please
grow
up or go back to your barstool.
//
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia


I don't think that's right Jack.
An operators license follows the operator.

Brian W

You're Right. On the FCC website;

If you have a RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT, you should retain
it for future use since it is authorized for your lifetime.

It's the station license, applies to equipment on specific boat.

It is only when applying for that license, as I explained earlier before
Bruce's tirade, can a boater obtain an FCC-issued MMSI, which registers his
MMSI internationally. BOAT-US continues to fulfill the MMSI requirements of
all domestic-only voyagers. Their volunteer-provided database, while useable
by the USCG, is unfortunately not compatible with either the FCC's or ITU's.
So much for no good deed going unpunished.

Jack

In article 1cHYd.62360$7z6.6536@lakeread04,
"Jack Painter" wrote:

I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A
VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another
vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow
up or go back to your barstool.

Wrong again Jackie..... the Resricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit is
a PERSONAL Operators License and does NOT go with any Radio Station
License, one may, or may not have issued to a vessel or aircraft they
may own. It is also REQUIRED to be in the possession of any Pilot who
makes an International Flight, or who flys outside US airspace and under
a Non-US Flight Control Center. It is NOT tied to any vessel or
aircraft, and is a Lifetime Permit, for that reason. You may change
vessels or aircraft and Station Licenses for them, but you NEVER need to
change your Resricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit.


Here you go mixing up licenses again, forgetting the title and topic of
this newsgroup is RECREATIONAL boating. Only a Restricted Operators
permit is required for a recreational boater who wants to visit a
foreign port. His boat can remain "covered by the rule" which means no
station license for VHF-only, and the ROP covers his carriage of the
radio, whether he uses it OR NOT, in a foreign port.

Jackie, you need a bit of a refresher in your International Radio Law,
son..
If a US Flagged vessel is fitted with a VHF radio, and Licensed under
the Blanket License Rule, and leaves US Waters and enters a foreign
port, it is as if he had NO Authorization for the fitted Radio. Said
radio would not be covered under International Law to transmit under any
circiumstance, baring a Distress Transmission. It doesn't matter if it
is a "recreational boater" or not. I am not "mixing up" anything, just
presenting the FACTS of International Maritime Radio Law, which you seem
to not be able to grasp. A Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit
is NOT a Station License, and confers no Authority to Fit, or imply
Legality of Carriage, that requires a Station License. Station and
Operator Licenses are two DIFFERENT things. How hard can this be to
graps?

That's called being "covered by the rule" and does not permit a vessel
to dock in a foreign port, which is why it's another of your useless
comments that serves only the interests of your strange ego.

This has absolutly nothing to do with "dock in a foreign port" in anyway.
A US Flagged vessel may certainly "dock in a foreign port" with a fitted
VHF Radio that would be Licensed in US waters under the Blanket License
Rule, the Operator just could not legally make any Transmissions from
inside the waters of another country, or communicate with any station,
once he entered the waters of another country. Why is this so hard for
you to grasp? Actually, in some countries, it is a CRIME to have a
Radiotelephone fitted, and no Internationally Recognized License for
such a Radio, and they maybe impounded by the Government, whos water
your in.

The Rules have not changed, since the last time I reveiwed the IMO Annual
Meeting Minutes. I was never a "field-rep", in fact I was Field Agant
dually sworn, with the same Oath that you took, upon entering the USCG,
no claim, just FACT. I still have my Badge, and cancelled Credentials,
as do all Retired and RIF'd Field Agants.


Bruce in alaska

--
Bruce (semiretired powderman & exFCC Field Inspector for Southeastern Alaska)
add a 2 before @
Bruce Gordon * Debora Gordon R.N. Bruce's Trading Post
P.O. Box EXI Excursion Inlet South
Juneau, Alaska 99850 Excursion Inlet, Alaska 99850
www.btpost.net www.99850.net

"Bruce Gordon" wrote
/snip/
Wrong again Jackie..... the Resricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit is
a PERSONAL Operators License and does NOT go with any Radio Station
License, one may, or may not have issued to a vessel or aircraft they
may own. It is also REQUIRED to be in the possession of any Pilot who
makes an International Flight, or who flys outside US airspace and under
a Non-US Flight Control Center. It is NOT tied to any vessel or
aircraft, and is a Lifetime Permit, for that reason. You may change
vessels or aircraft and Station Licenses for them, but you NEVER need to
change your Resricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit.

Allright Bruce, if that is so, then please explain why the FCC requires
specific ship information on the application form (605 main) for an RR
license, and why same instructions include use of the same form for later
modifying ships (or aircraft) information (no fee required for the mod) ?
Sure looks like the "operator" is tied to a specific vessel.. The 605 form
is not a ship's license application form, so what possible reason could
there be for including the vessel data (and requiring it's modification if
changed) on the RR application, if the RR permit was not tied to a
particular vessel?

And why in the supplemental information forms required with 605,, there is
included a temporary restricted radiotelephone operator permit that uses the
vessels documentation number as the callsign? If the vessel changes (sold,
replaced with new boat, etc), do these instructions not specifically require
amending the restricted radiotelephone operators permit? I read that they
do, and it looks plain to me that if you applied for an RR for international
voyages (the only reason for having it on a pleasure/voluntary vessel per
the form itself), then you must maintain current vessel information related
to that RR permit, and file a modification when the vessel changes..


Temporary permit: http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605f.pdf

Instructions for Temporary Operator Permit for the
Ship, Aircraft, Restricted Radiotelephone,
Restricted Radiotelephone-Limited Use, and GMRS Radio Services
Do Not Use if Applying for Ship Exemption
DO NOT MAIL THIS SCHEDULE TO THE FCC - KEEP IT FOR YOUR RECORDS
Form FCC 605, Schedule F, is a supplementary schedule for use with the FCC
Quick-Form Application for Authorization in the Ship,
Aircraft, Amateur, Restricted and Commercial Operator, and the General
Mobile Radio Services, FCC 605 Main Form. This schedule is
to be used as a Temporary Operator Permit for the Ship, Aircraft, Restricted
Radiotelephone, Restricted Radiotelephone-Limited Use,
and GMRS Radio Services while your application is being processed by the
FCC. In order for this Temporary Operator Permit to be
valid, you must complete the FCC 605 Main Form and the appropriate
Additional Data Schedule and submit them to the FCC.

Main form-605 for Restricted Operator
http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605main.pdf

Best regards,

Jack