On 11 Mar 2005 05:35:59 -0800, wrote:

I would suggest stepping up enough to get DSC.

=============================

Is there a test process for VHF/DSC? My latest boat came with two DSC
capable ICOMs but I have no idea if the feature is even hooked up, let
alone working. Also, I have no idea what vessel ID is programmed, if
any.

"Wayne.B" wrote

On 11 Mar 2005 05:35:59 -0800, wrote:

I would suggest stepping up enough to get DSC.

=============================

Is there a test process for VHF/DSC? My latest boat came with two DSC
capable ICOMs but I have no idea if the feature is even hooked up, let
alone working. Also, I have no idea what vessel ID is programmed, if
any.


There is no license or test required to be a voluntarily-equipped DSC-GMDSS
vessel, the category which most recreational boaters fall into. But you must
register an MMSI (Maritime Mobile Service Identifier) number to YOUR vessel.
The number (if any) that was in the used radio is not valid any longer.

Also, a U.S. vessel that plans to dock (or communicate) at a non-US port of
call, must have a restricted radiotelephone operators license. This good for
life (of the vessel you own and operate) and also does not involve any exam.
The license covers vhf, hf, gmdss and radars with no description of
equipments required. It will include applying for an MMSI to be used
internationally.

Changing the MMSI on a radio can be done by the owner, providing you have
the owner's operation manual which provides these instructions. Many radio
manufacturers provide manuals online. BOAT-US has an 800 # for you to call
where an experienced associate can walk you through the procedures involved.
That number is: 1-800-566-1536 (working hours). Or you can simply walk-in to
any BOAT-US store with your radio(s) and do the same.

Also be advised that BOAT-US provided registration of MMSI (free to all who
apply) does NOT register your MMSI for international voyages. Americans must
apply to the FCC for an MMSI to be used in conjunction with a restricted
operators license and international travel.

Best regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

In article 5UpYd.61628$7z6.35203@lakeread04,
"Jack Painter" wrote:

Also, a U.S. vessel that plans to dock (or communicate) at a non-US port of
call, must have a restricted radiotelephone operators license. This good for
life (of the vessel you own and operate) and also does not involve any exam.
The license covers vhf, hf, gmdss and radars with no description of
equipments required. It will include applying for an MMSI to be used
internationally.

Again, jackie is extending information that he doesn't understand.......

HEY JACK, How about you "GET A CLUE before you confuse folks with your
uninformed information.

First: A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON
not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be
an operator.

Second: A US Flagged vessel, if it is to operate outside US Territorial
Waters, AND communicate with non-US Coast Stations, must have
a valid Ship Radio Station License issued by the FCC.

Third: If, and only if, the vessel has fitted, only VHF Radios and,
or, a Marine S or Xband Radar, and does not communicated with
non-US Coast Stations, it MAY be covered by the Blanket License
issued by the FCC, which covers all such vessels in perpituity,
and does not require any action on the owners, or operators
parts as far as licensing is concerened.

Fourth: If, and only if, the vessel is operating under the Blanket
License, an Operator Permit is NOT Required to operate the
fitted equipment.

Fifth: If, and only if, the vessel is operating under the Blanket
License, the owner/operator MAY request a MMSI from the
dually appointed Voluntary MMSI Registrant, and that MMSI
will be recorded against the Documentation Number (either
US or State) of the Vessel.

Sixth: When a vessel is issued a Ship Radio Station License the
FCC will issue a MMSI along with the Callsign, which is
recorded against the Documentation Number (either
US or State) of the Vessel.


Now that we got that straight....... Carry on.......


Bruce in alaska who wishes that USCG would refrain from distributing
uninformed information.......
--
add a 2 before @

"Bruce in Alaska" slid off his stool and shouted:

"Jack Painter" wrote:

Also, a U.S. vessel that plans to dock (or communicate) at a non-US port
of
call, must have a restricted radiotelephone operators license. This good
for
life (of the vessel you own and operate) and also does not involve any
exam.
The license covers vhf, hf, gmdss and radars with no description of
equipments required. It will include applying for an MMSI to be used
internationally.

Again, jackie is extending information that he doesn't understand.......

HEY JACK, How about you "GET A CLUE before you confuse folks with your
uninformed information.

First: A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON
not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be
an operator.

I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A
VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another
vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow
up or go back to your barstool.



Second: A US Flagged vessel, if it is to operate outside US Territorial
Waters, AND communicate with non-US Coast Stations, must have
a valid Ship Radio Station License issued by the FCC.


Here you go mixing up licenses again, forgetting the title and topic of this
newsgroup is RECREATIONAL boating. Only a Restricted Operators permit is
required for a recreational boater who wants to visit a foreign port. His
boat can remain "covered by the rule" which means no station license for
VHF-only, and the ROP covers his carriage of the radio, whether he uses it
OR NOT, in a foreign port.




Third: If, and only if, the vessel has fitted, only VHF Radios and,
or, a Marine S or Xband Radar, and does not communicated with
non-US Coast Stations, it MAY be covered by the Blanket License
issued by the FCC, which covers all such vessels in perpituity,
and does not require any action on the owners, or operators
parts as far as licensing is concerened.

That's called being "covered by the rule" and does not permit a vessel to
dock in a foreign port, which is why it's another of your useless comments
that serves only the interests of your strange ego.


Fourth:
/snipped unadulterated blabber
..
Fifth:
/snipped unadulterated blabber

Sixth:
/snipped unadulterated blabber


Now that we got that straight....... Carry on.......


Bruce in alaska who wishes that USCG would refrain from distributing
uninformed information.......

"Straight" is a concept difficult to apply to your posts.

The information I posted is current, accurate, and applies to the questions
posted by Wayne B. The rules have changed since the time you claimed to
have once been a field-rep for the FCC. Try to remember the "recreational"
concept of the newsgroup, please.

Best regards,

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:04 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON
not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be
an operator.

I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A
VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another
vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow
up or go back to your barstool.
//
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia


I don't think that's right Jack.
An operators license follows the operator.

Brian W

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:31:06 GMT, Brian Whatcott wrote:

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:04 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON
not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be
an operator.

I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A
VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another
vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow
up or go back to your barstool.
//
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia


I don't think that's right Jack.
An operators license follows the operator.

Brian W

That's what I thought too...unless the rules have changed
since I got mine.
Norm B

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:14:04 -0500, "Jack Painter"
wrote:

A Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is for a PERSON
not a vessel. It is an "OPERATORs" and a vessel can't be
an operator.

I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner
of A
VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to
another
vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please
grow
up or go back to your barstool.
//
Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia


I don't think that's right Jack.
An operators license follows the operator.

Brian W

You're Right. On the FCC website;

If you have a RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT, you should retain
it for future use since it is authorized for your lifetime.

It's the station license, applies to equipment on specific boat.

It is only when applying for that license, as I explained earlier before
Bruce's tirade, can a boater obtain an FCC-issued MMSI, which registers his
MMSI internationally. BOAT-US continues to fulfill the MMSI requirements of
all domestic-only voyagers. Their volunteer-provided database, while useable
by the USCG, is unfortunately not compatible with either the FCC's or ITU's.
So much for no good deed going unpunished.

Jack

In article 1cHYd.62360$7z6.6536@lakeread04,
"Jack Painter" wrote:

I know that Bruce. I mentioned the "vessel" because it is for the owner of A
VESSEL, and cannot be transferred or used when the licensee goes to another
vessel. So it is "for life" only if it remains ON THAT VESSEL. Please grow
up or go back to your barstool.

Wrong again Jackie..... the Resricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit is
a PERSONAL Operators License and does NOT go with any Radio Station
License, one may, or may not have issued to a vessel or aircraft they
may own. It is also REQUIRED to be in the possession of any Pilot who
makes an International Flight, or who flys outside US airspace and under
a Non-US Flight Control Center. It is NOT tied to any vessel or
aircraft, and is a Lifetime Permit, for that reason. You may change
vessels or aircraft and Station Licenses for them, but you NEVER need to
change your Resricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit.


Here you go mixing up licenses again, forgetting the title and topic of
this newsgroup is RECREATIONAL boating. Only a Restricted Operators
permit is required for a recreational boater who wants to visit a
foreign port. His boat can remain "covered by the rule" which means no
station license for VHF-only, and the ROP covers his carriage of the
radio, whether he uses it OR NOT, in a foreign port.

Jackie, you need a bit of a refresher in your International Radio Law,
son..
If a US Flagged vessel is fitted with a VHF radio, and Licensed under
the Blanket License Rule, and leaves US Waters and enters a foreign
port, it is as if he had NO Authorization for the fitted Radio. Said
radio would not be covered under International Law to transmit under any
circiumstance, baring a Distress Transmission. It doesn't matter if it
is a "recreational boater" or not. I am not "mixing up" anything, just
presenting the FACTS of International Maritime Radio Law, which you seem
to not be able to grasp. A Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit
is NOT a Station License, and confers no Authority to Fit, or imply
Legality of Carriage, that requires a Station License. Station and
Operator Licenses are two DIFFERENT things. How hard can this be to
graps?

That's called being "covered by the rule" and does not permit a vessel
to dock in a foreign port, which is why it's another of your useless
comments that serves only the interests of your strange ego.

This has absolutly nothing to do with "dock in a foreign port" in anyway.
A US Flagged vessel may certainly "dock in a foreign port" with a fitted
VHF Radio that would be Licensed in US waters under the Blanket License
Rule, the Operator just could not legally make any Transmissions from
inside the waters of another country, or communicate with any station,
once he entered the waters of another country. Why is this so hard for
you to grasp? Actually, in some countries, it is a CRIME to have a
Radiotelephone fitted, and no Internationally Recognized License for
such a Radio, and they maybe impounded by the Government, whos water
your in.

The Rules have not changed, since the last time I reveiwed the IMO Annual
Meeting Minutes. I was never a "field-rep", in fact I was Field Agant
dually sworn, with the same Oath that you took, upon entering the USCG,
no claim, just FACT. I still have my Badge, and cancelled Credentials,
as do all Retired and RIF'd Field Agants.


Bruce in alaska

--
Bruce (semiretired powderman & exFCC Field Inspector for Southeastern Alaska)
add a 2 before @
Bruce Gordon * Debora Gordon R.N. Bruce's Trading Post
P.O. Box EXI Excursion Inlet South
Juneau, Alaska 99850 Excursion Inlet, Alaska 99850
www.btpost.net www.99850.net

"Bruce Gordon" wrote
/snip/
Wrong again Jackie..... the Resricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit is
a PERSONAL Operators License and does NOT go with any Radio Station
License, one may, or may not have issued to a vessel or aircraft they
may own. It is also REQUIRED to be in the possession of any Pilot who
makes an International Flight, or who flys outside US airspace and under
a Non-US Flight Control Center. It is NOT tied to any vessel or
aircraft, and is a Lifetime Permit, for that reason. You may change
vessels or aircraft and Station Licenses for them, but you NEVER need to
change your Resricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit.

Allright Bruce, if that is so, then please explain why the FCC requires
specific ship information on the application form (605 main) for an RR
license, and why same instructions include use of the same form for later
modifying ships (or aircraft) information (no fee required for the mod) ?
Sure looks like the "operator" is tied to a specific vessel.. The 605 form
is not a ship's license application form, so what possible reason could
there be for including the vessel data (and requiring it's modification if
changed) on the RR application, if the RR permit was not tied to a
particular vessel?

And why in the supplemental information forms required with 605,, there is
included a temporary restricted radiotelephone operator permit that uses the
vessels documentation number as the callsign? If the vessel changes (sold,
replaced with new boat, etc), do these instructions not specifically require
amending the restricted radiotelephone operators permit? I read that they
do, and it looks plain to me that if you applied for an RR for international
voyages (the only reason for having it on a pleasure/voluntary vessel per
the form itself), then you must maintain current vessel information related
to that RR permit, and file a modification when the vessel changes..


Temporary permit: http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605f.pdf

Instructions for Temporary Operator Permit for the
Ship, Aircraft, Restricted Radiotelephone,
Restricted Radiotelephone-Limited Use, and GMRS Radio Services
Do Not Use if Applying for Ship Exemption
DO NOT MAIL THIS SCHEDULE TO THE FCC - KEEP IT FOR YOUR RECORDS
Form FCC 605, Schedule F, is a supplementary schedule for use with the FCC
Quick-Form Application for Authorization in the Ship,
Aircraft, Amateur, Restricted and Commercial Operator, and the General
Mobile Radio Services, FCC 605 Main Form. This schedule is
to be used as a Temporary Operator Permit for the Ship, Aircraft, Restricted
Radiotelephone, Restricted Radiotelephone-Limited Use,
and GMRS Radio Services while your application is being processed by the
FCC. In order for this Temporary Operator Permit to be
valid, you must complete the FCC 605 Main Form and the appropriate
Additional Data Schedule and submit them to the FCC.

Main form-605 for Restricted Operator
http://www.fcc.gov/Forms/Form605/605main.pdf

Best regards,

Jack

Bruce,

We both made errors in interpreting the law here, as described on the FCC
website and the CFR. to wit:

"Bruce Gordon" wrote
"Jack Painter" wrote:

Here you go mixing up licenses again, forgetting the title and topic of
this newsgroup is RECREATIONAL boating. Only a Restricted Operators
permit is required for a recreational boater who wants to visit a
foreign port. His boat can remain "covered by the rule" which means no
station license for VHF-only, and the ROP covers his carriage of the
radio, whether he uses it OR NOT, in a foreign port.

(I was wrong, the Station license is indeed also required)

Jackie, you need a bit of a refresher in your International Radio Law,
son..
If a US Flagged vessel is fitted with a VHF radio, and Licensed under
the Blanket License Rule, and leaves US Waters and enters a foreign
port, it is as if he had NO Authorization for the fitted Radio. Said
radio would not be covered under International Law to transmit under any
circiumstance, baring a Distress Transmission.

(You were wrong, according to the rules, voluntary equipped or not, vessels
with radios may not enter or dock foreign port w/o RO & SL.)
---------------------------

That's called being "covered by the rule" and does not permit a vessel
to dock in a foreign port

This has absolutly nothing to do with "dock in a foreign port" in anyway.
A US Flagged vessel may certainly "dock in a foreign port" with a fitted
VHF Radio that would be Licensed in US waters under the Blanket License
Rule, the Operator just could not legally make any Transmissions from
inside the waters of another country, or communicate with any station,
once he entered the waters of another country.


(You were wrong, the rules clearly describe "dock in foreign port" and
"enter foreign port" as the requirement for a RO in addition to SL. Only
"sailing in international waters and not comunicating with a foreign
station" are exempt.)

Shown he http://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/fctsht14.html#SEC2

WHO NEEDS A SHIP STATION LICENSE?

You do not need a license to operate a marine VHF radio, radar, or EPIRBs
aboard voluntary ships operating domestically. The terms "voluntary" and
"domestic" are defined below.

WHAT IS DOMESTIC OPERATION?

Ships are considered as operating domestically when they do not travel to
foreign ports or do not transmit radio communications to foreign stations.
Sailing in international waters is permitted, so long as the previous
conditions are met. If you travel to a foreign port (e.g., Canada, Mexico,
Bahamas, British Virgin Islands) a license is required. Additionally, if you
travel to a foreign port, you are required to have an operator permit as
described in Section III.

DO I NEED A RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT?

If you plan to dock in a foreign port (e.g., Canada or the Bahamas) or if
you communicate with foreign coast or ship stations, you must have a
RESTRICTED RADIOTELEPHONE OPERATOR PERMIT (sometimes referred to by boaters
as an "individual license") in addition to your ship radio station license.
Section IV outlines the procedure for obtaining a permit. However, if (1)
you merely plan to sail in domestic or international waters without docking
in any foreign ports and without communicating with foreign coast stations,
and (2) your radio operates only on VHF frequencies, you do not need an
operator permit.

** note the multiple references to
"travel to foreign port", and
"dock in foreign port".

And the form-605 instructions insists that all fields under "ship" be
completed, with no written exemption (or "N/A") for the vessel
name/documentation if application for an RO only. While that may be allowed
from your experience, the form does not leave that option to the applicant.

I would be happy to have your help when I need an FCC license.

Jack