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Old April 15th 04, 07:17 PM
Sheldon Haynie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dual banks with Duo charge?

Anyone have experience with dual banks (small starter and big house) with
the Balmar Duo-Charge? I am taking two seized up alternators off a
Westerbeke 46 (don't ask about why they are seized) and replacing with a
single 100A Balmar alternator. Rather than futz about with the battery
switch for charging, I would prefer to have a separate path for charging so
I do NOT forget to switch etc.


--
Sheldon Haynie
Texas Instruments
50 Phillipe Cote
Manchester, NH 03101
603 222 8652


  #2   Report Post  
Old April 15th 04, 11:21 PM
Doug Dotson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dual banks with Duo charge?

Not familiar with Duo-Charge, but I can recommend "The Eliminator"
from AmplePower. I've been using them for 8 years with no
problems.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Sheldon Haynie" wrote in message
...
Anyone have experience with dual banks (small starter and big house) with
the Balmar Duo-Charge? I am taking two seized up alternators off a
Westerbeke 46 (don't ask about why they are seized) and replacing with a
single 100A Balmar alternator. Rather than futz about with the battery
switch for charging, I would prefer to have a separate path for charging

so
I do NOT forget to switch etc.


--
Sheldon Haynie
Texas Instruments
50 Phillipe Cote
Manchester, NH 03101
603 222 8652



  #3   Report Post  
Old April 16th 04, 02:31 AM
Rusty O
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dual banks with Duo charge?

Several models of Balmar alternators are available with dual outputs. I
believe these are part of their 90, 91, and 912 series models. I have a 100
amp, 12 volt model with dual outputs. It eliminates the need for any
external isolators, Duo-Charge, Echo-Charge or other devices. You still only
need a single regulator with these alternators. It automatically distributes
the 100 amps to the two separate batteries as needed.

If you want to use a single output alternator there are several products on
the market that will sense the charging voltage and parallel the batteries
for charging and separate them when charging is complete. Some of these also
allow you to manually parallel the batteries without a high current switch.
One model is the Xantrex Pathmaker which is available in 100 and 250 amp
models and 2 or 3 battery banks.

The Balmar Duo-Charge is limited to 30 amps of charging to the second
battery. However, it also allows the batteries to be of different
construction. As an example, you could have a flooded cell house battery and
an AGM or Gel starting battery.

I'm sure the Ample Power Eliminator is a fine product. I talked to them at
the Seattle boat show several years ago about a complete charging and
monitoring system for my boat. After that conversation I wrote up a complete
request for quote listing each component I needed. It included a diesel
generator, alternators for the main engine, regulators, and all accessories.
They never responded to my request. If there is no service before the sale,
how much service will there be after the sale? During this same time period
they put a huge amount of energy into a very public ****ing contest with one
of their competitors over who knew best about batteries and how to charge
them.

Two years later I asked them about my request at the boat show. A few weeks
later I received a very sloppy quote that didn't include all the items I
requested. The system now installed has NO products for Ample Power. And it
will stay that way.

Rusty O




  #4   Report Post  
Old April 16th 04, 03:08 AM
Doug Dotson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dual banks with Duo charge?

I guess different folks have different experiences. I have had nothing
but Ample Power products for the past 8 years. The only failure
I have had was a failed power supply that was 2 years old. They
replaced it without blinking an eye. Their email tech support has
always been helpful in the rare occation I needed it.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Rusty O" wrote in message
link.net...
Several models of Balmar alternators are available with dual outputs. I
believe these are part of their 90, 91, and 912 series models. I have a

100
amp, 12 volt model with dual outputs. It eliminates the need for any
external isolators, Duo-Charge, Echo-Charge or other devices. You still

only
need a single regulator with these alternators. It automatically

distributes
the 100 amps to the two separate batteries as needed.

If you want to use a single output alternator there are several products

on
the market that will sense the charging voltage and parallel the batteries
for charging and separate them when charging is complete. Some of these

also
allow you to manually parallel the batteries without a high current

switch.
One model is the Xantrex Pathmaker which is available in 100 and 250 amp
models and 2 or 3 battery banks.

The Balmar Duo-Charge is limited to 30 amps of charging to the second
battery. However, it also allows the batteries to be of different
construction. As an example, you could have a flooded cell house battery

and
an AGM or Gel starting battery.

I'm sure the Ample Power Eliminator is a fine product. I talked to them at
the Seattle boat show several years ago about a complete charging and
monitoring system for my boat. After that conversation I wrote up a

complete
request for quote listing each component I needed. It included a diesel
generator, alternators for the main engine, regulators, and all

accessories.
They never responded to my request. If there is no service before the

sale,
how much service will there be after the sale? During this same time

period
they put a huge amount of energy into a very public ****ing contest with

one
of their competitors over who knew best about batteries and how to charge
them.

Two years later I asked them about my request at the boat show. A few

weeks
later I received a very sloppy quote that didn't include all the items I
requested. The system now installed has NO products for Ample Power. And

it
will stay that way.

Rusty O






  #5   Report Post  
Old April 16th 04, 02:54 PM
Glen \Wiley\ Wilson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dual banks with Duo charge?

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:17:27 -0400, Sheldon Haynie
wrote:

Anyone have experience with dual banks (small starter and big house) with
the Balmar Duo-Charge? I am taking two seized up alternators off a
Westerbeke 46 (don't ask about why they are seized) and replacing with a
single 100A Balmar alternator. Rather than futz about with the battery
switch for charging, I would prefer to have a separate path for charging so
I do NOT forget to switch etc.

I installed a Duo-Charge when they came on the market, as I'd been
looking for something like that at a reasonable price for a while. My
logic was about the same as yours. It works like a champ. For my
purposes, it is the ideal solution. I have a dual output alternator,
but I prefer the Duo-Charge for its flexibility. Also, if you have
solar or wind power the Duo-Charge doesn't care where the charge comes
from.

The early units had abysmal documentation. I contacted Balmar and
they shipped me a new manual which was much better. I expect that
problem is fixed by now. The unit would not be appropriate for 2
large banks, as it is current limited to 30 amps. To keep a starting
battery topped off, that isn't a problem.

If you're interested, I have a wiring diagram of my boat before and
after installing the new alt/regulator/DuoCharge.

__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/


  #6   Report Post  
Old April 19th 04, 07:20 PM
Sheldon Haynie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dual banks with Duo charge?

Yes I would be interested, my boat is a bit mature and the wiring was to or
above standard in 1962. Lets just say I do not have a schematic for it and
need to create one.

I want the DuoCharge so that the starter battery can eventually diverge from
the house bank, currently both are flooded cells.


On 4/16/04 9:54 AM, in article ,
"Glen "Wiley" Wilson" wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:17:27 -0400, Sheldon Haynie
wrote:

Anyone have experience with dual banks (small starter and big house) with
the Balmar Duo-Charge? I am taking two seized up alternators off a
Westerbeke 46 (don't ask about why they are seized) and replacing with a
single 100A Balmar alternator. Rather than futz about with the battery
switch for charging, I would prefer to have a separate path for charging so
I do NOT forget to switch etc.

I installed a Duo-Charge when they came on the market, as I'd been
looking for something like that at a reasonable price for a while. My
logic was about the same as yours. It works like a champ. For my
purposes, it is the ideal solution. I have a dual output alternator,
but I prefer the Duo-Charge for its flexibility. Also, if you have
solar or wind power the Duo-Charge doesn't care where the charge comes
from.

The early units had abysmal documentation. I contacted Balmar and
they shipped me a new manual which was much better. I expect that
problem is fixed by now. The unit would not be appropriate for 2
large banks, as it is current limited to 30 amps. To keep a starting
battery topped off, that isn't a problem.

If you're interested, I have a wiring diagram of my boat before and
after installing the new alt/regulator/DuoCharge.

__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at
http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

--
Sheldon Haynie
Texas Instruments
50 Phillipe Cote
Manchester, NH 03101
603 222 8652

  #7   Report Post  
Old April 24th 04, 04:30 AM
Larry W4CSC
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dual banks with Duo charge?

Sheldon Haynie wrote in
:

Anyone have experience with dual banks (small starter and big house)
with the Balmar Duo-Charge? I am taking two seized up alternators off
a Westerbeke 46 (don't ask about why they are seized) and replacing
with a single 100A Balmar alternator. Rather than futz about with the
battery switch for charging, I would prefer to have a separate path
for charging so I do NOT forget to switch etc.



Sounds like a job for a 100A or more battery isolator, to me. Connect the
alternator to the common terminal of the isolator and one of the battery
banks to the output terminals. The diodes in the isolator will keep the
big batteries from sucking the guts out of the little starting battery.
The alternator will charge whatever batteries are low just fine.....

Because you say you are forgetful, I won't mention using a continuous-duty
solenoid relay to hook the house batteries up to the starting batteries in
parallel from a little switch at the helm. One boater I did some work for
was brainwashed that all diode isolators were like bubonic plague, which
they're not, so I mounted a 12V, continuous-duty, 250A solenoid relay
between the + on the house batteries to the + on the starter battery. At
the helm, I put a simple toggle switch marked CHARGE! with a BRIGHT RED
indicator in your face. The toggle switch wasn't turned ON until the
engine was running. The toggle switch to turn on the coil of the relay got
its power through a 3A fuse hooked to the engine power switch so you
COULDN'T leave it on when you switched the engine off, even if the switch
was left on. What was neat was that bright, red light. It was hooked up
ACROSS the toggle switch, not to ground. If you cranked the engine and
DIDN'T turn on the house battery charging switch after the engine cranked,
the light LIT! Turning on the house battery relay extinguished the bright
light and charged everything in parallel. It didn't make any difference
where you left the charging switch when you turned the engine off, as long
as you turned it off to disconnect dead house batteries before you turned
the engine switch on next time you cranked it. If the house batteries
weren't dead, you can just let the solenoid come on with the key to the
engine as it makes no difference and helps crank the diesel with all the
batteries pulling at once, which is where he leaves it all the time....on.

A great advantage to using the solenoid and not the isolator was there was
still enough power in an almost-dead starting battery to power the solenoid
if the starting battery wouldn't crank the diesel. Once "on", with the
house batteries now hooked up like jumper cables, the house batteries will
crank the diesel to kick it all into charge, dead starting battery and all.
The guy I hooked it up for simply loves the way it works.....(c;

Larry
  #8   Report Post  
Old April 26th 04, 07:20 PM
Sheldon Haynie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dual banks with Duo charge?

Thanks Larry, that would work well, IF the batteries were to be common
chemistry. Currently I have Flooded parallel-series connected 6V for House
bank and a small flooded for starter, Eventually I plan to change those
over, probably to an AGM for the starter. I do loan Lioness out and I want a
fool proof system.

S



On 4/23/04 11:30 PM, in article , "Larry
W4CSC" wrote:

Sheldon Haynie wrote in
:

Anyone have experience with dual banks (small starter and big house)
with the Balmar Duo-Charge? I am taking two seized up alternators off
a Westerbeke 46 (don't ask about why they are seized) and replacing
with a single 100A Balmar alternator. Rather than futz about with the
battery switch for charging, I would prefer to have a separate path
for charging so I do NOT forget to switch etc.



Sounds like a job for a 100A or more battery isolator, to me. Connect the
alternator to the common terminal of the isolator and one of the battery
banks to the output terminals. The diodes in the isolator will keep the
big batteries from sucking the guts out of the little starting battery.
The alternator will charge whatever batteries are low just fine.....

Because you say you are forgetful, I won't mention using a continuous-duty
solenoid relay to hook the house batteries up to the starting batteries in
parallel from a little switch at the helm. One boater I did some work for
was brainwashed that all diode isolators were like bubonic plague, which
they're not, so I mounted a 12V, continuous-duty, 250A solenoid relay
between the + on the house batteries to the + on the starter battery. At
the helm, I put a simple toggle switch marked CHARGE! with a BRIGHT RED
indicator in your face. The toggle switch wasn't turned ON until the
engine was running. The toggle switch to turn on the coil of the relay got
its power through a 3A fuse hooked to the engine power switch so you
COULDN'T leave it on when you switched the engine off, even if the switch
was left on. What was neat was that bright, red light. It was hooked up
ACROSS the toggle switch, not to ground. If you cranked the engine and
DIDN'T turn on the house battery charging switch after the engine cranked,
the light LIT! Turning on the house battery relay extinguished the bright
light and charged everything in parallel. It didn't make any difference
where you left the charging switch when you turned the engine off, as long
as you turned it off to disconnect dead house batteries before you turned
the engine switch on next time you cranked it. If the house batteries
weren't dead, you can just let the solenoid come on with the key to the
engine as it makes no difference and helps crank the diesel with all the
batteries pulling at once, which is where he leaves it all the time....on.

A great advantage to using the solenoid and not the isolator was there was
still enough power in an almost-dead starting battery to power the solenoid
if the starting battery wouldn't crank the diesel. Once "on", with the
house batteries now hooked up like jumper cables, the house batteries will
crank the diesel to kick it all into charge, dead starting battery and all.
The guy I hooked it up for simply loves the way it works.....(c;

Larry


--
Sheldon Haynie
Texas Instruments
50 Phillipe Cote
Manchester, NH 03101
603 222 8652

  #9   Report Post  
Old February 2nd 14, 12:45 PM posted to rec.boats.electronics
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Feb 2014
Posts: 1
Default Dual banks with Duo charge?

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