Tests of mobile antennae in the Amateur Radio 75 meter band (4MHz) yielded
the following results:

* Well-designed Bugcatcher or Screwdriver with top hat 0 dB reference
* Bugcatcher or Screwdriver with no top hat -3 dB
* Hustler or Outbacker -9 dB
* Hamstick -12 dB
* Whip with autotuner -14 dB

This suggests that the common insulated-backstay-with-autotuner used on
sailboats could be improved by adding a capacitive top hat immediately below
the upper insulator and/or a tapped coil in parallel (ie around) the lower
insulator to tune whatever length of antenna one can physically accomodate
to resonate on or near the Marine frequencies of interest, such as 2182 MHz.
Has anyone any experience doing so?

In article ,
"Vito" wrote:

Tests of mobile antennae in the Amateur Radio 75 meter band (4MHz) yielded
the following results:

* Well-designed Bugcatcher or Screwdriver with top hat 0 dB reference
* Bugcatcher or Screwdriver with no top hat -3 dB
* Hustler or Outbacker -9 dB
* Hamstick -12 dB
* Whip with autotuner -14 dB

This suggests that the common insulated-backstay-with-autotuner used on
sailboats could be improved by adding a capacitive top hat immediately below
the upper insulator and/or a tapped coil in parallel (ie around) the lower
insulator to tune whatever length of antenna one can physically accomodate
to resonate on or near the Marine frequencies of interest, such as 2182 MHz.
Has anyone any experience doing so?

Most noncommercial boaters do not have the expertiese to understand,
let alone install, what you are describing. Most commercial vessels
have enough Mast Height to accommodate a "Total Antenna Length" of 75 ft
so that common autotuners can resonate the system to 2182 Khz. On
SOLAS Required Vessels MF and HF Antenna Systems are designed to
be resonate on all the specific SOLAS Required Frequencies and are
TESTED and Logged once a year by Licensed Marine Radio Tech's.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

Not familiar with a Marine Radio Tech License? I have a GROL
with radar Endorsement and a GMDSS/M, but I'm not aware
that is what you are referring to. The NMEA has a certification
process but that's not really a "license" per se.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Vito" wrote:

Tests of mobile antennae in the Amateur Radio 75 meter band (4MHz)
yielded
the following results:

* Well-designed Bugcatcher or Screwdriver with top hat 0 dB reference
* Bugcatcher or Screwdriver with no top hat -3 dB
* Hustler or Outbacker -9 dB
* Hamstick -12 dB
* Whip with autotuner -14 dB

This suggests that the common insulated-backstay-with-autotuner used on
sailboats could be improved by adding a capacitive top hat immediately
below
the upper insulator and/or a tapped coil in parallel (ie around) the
lower
insulator to tune whatever length of antenna one can physically
accomodate
to resonate on or near the Marine frequencies of interest, such as 2182
MHz.
Has anyone any experience doing so?

Most noncommercial boaters do not have the expertiese to understand,
let alone install, what you are describing. Most commercial vessels
have enough Mast Height to accommodate a "Total Antenna Length" of 75 ft
so that common autotuners can resonate the system to 2182 Khz. On
SOLAS Required Vessels MF and HF Antenna Systems are designed to
be resonate on all the specific SOLAS Required Frequencies and are
TESTED and Logged once a year by Licensed Marine Radio Tech's.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:16:41 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

Not familiar with a Marine Radio Tech License? I have a GROL
with radar Endorsement and a GMDSS/M, but I'm not aware
that is what you are referring to. The NMEA has a certification
process but that's not really a "license" per se.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

You got it, Doug. Did you have 1st Phone before the shame of the GROL
was thrust upon you? I keep my 1st Phone with Radar in a frame over
my desk. I keep my GROL in the back of the file cabinet so noone can
see I have a CB license...(c;

You had to KNOW something to pass the 1st Phone, not just memorize the
test questions handed to you on a silver platter......It meant
something.

I added GMDSS maintainer and operator, but that was just a rote
memorizer test any fool who can read could pass, like the GROL.....

I actually cheated on the GMDSS tests. I'm a Dale Carnegie graduate.
DC teaches you how to memorize a whole magazine by associating each
page with a visualization. It was the most important thing I got out
of the course.
One - Run
Two - Zoo
Three - Tree
Four - Door
Five - Hive
Six - Sticks
Seven - Heaven
Eight - Grate
Nine - Wine
Ten - Den

I can still hear my instructor harping the first 100 visualizations on
us...(c; It's how I remembered the answers to the question bank,
which is easy after you memorize the ad on page 49 of National Review
for DC class.


Larry W4CSC

Is it just me or did the US and UK just capture 1/3
of the world's sweetest oil supply? What idiot wants to
GIVE IT BACK?!!

I found that learning the underlying theory was alot easier than
memorizing the test bank. Good way to learn things as well. My
father has a 1st Phone. He's probably almost as old as you
Unfortunately, they no longer issue the nice certificate to frame
and hang on the wall. Just the same wallet sized license as the
ham license.

DOug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:16:41 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

Not familiar with a Marine Radio Tech License? I have a GROL
with radar Endorsement and a GMDSS/M, but I'm not aware
that is what you are referring to. The NMEA has a certification
process but that's not really a "license" per se.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

You got it, Doug. Did you have 1st Phone before the shame of the GROL
was thrust upon you? I keep my 1st Phone with Radar in a frame over
my desk. I keep my GROL in the back of the file cabinet so noone can
see I have a CB license...(c;

You had to KNOW something to pass the 1st Phone, not just memorize the
test questions handed to you on a silver platter......It meant
something.

I added GMDSS maintainer and operator, but that was just a rote
memorizer test any fool who can read could pass, like the GROL.....

I actually cheated on the GMDSS tests. I'm a Dale Carnegie graduate.
DC teaches you how to memorize a whole magazine by associating each
page with a visualization. It was the most important thing I got out
of the course.
One - Run
Two - Zoo
Three - Tree
Four - Door
Five - Hive
Six - Sticks
Seven - Heaven
Eight - Grate
Nine - Wine
Ten - Den

I can still hear my instructor harping the first 100 visualizations on
us...(c; It's how I remembered the answers to the question bank,
which is easy after you memorize the ad on page 49 of National Review
for DC class.


Larry W4CSC

Is it just me or did the US and UK just capture 1/3
of the world's sweetest oil supply? What idiot wants to
GIVE IT BACK?!!

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:27:10 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

I found that learning the underlying theory was alot easier than
memorizing the test bank. Good way to learn things as well. My
father has a 1st Phone. He's probably almost as old as you
Unfortunately, they no longer issue the nice certificate to frame
and hang on the wall. Just the same wallet sized license as the
ham license.

DOug, k3qt
s/v Callista

A small GROL is easier to hide than a large one.....(c;

Larry W4CSC

Is it just me or did the US and UK just capture 1/3
of the world's sweetest oil supply? What idiot wants to
GIVE IT BACK?!!

I guess as we grow older the fact that some of our past
accomplishments are deemed obsolete is hard to accept.

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:27:10 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

I found that learning the underlying theory was alot easier than
memorizing the test bank. Good way to learn things as well. My
father has a 1st Phone. He's probably almost as old as you
Unfortunately, they no longer issue the nice certificate to frame
and hang on the wall. Just the same wallet sized license as the
ham license.

DOug, k3qt
s/v Callista

A small GROL is easier to hide than a large one.....(c;

Larry W4CSC

Is it just me or did the US and UK just capture 1/3
of the world's sweetest oil supply? What idiot wants to
GIVE IT BACK?!!

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:16:29 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

I guess as we grow older the fact that some of our past
accomplishments are deemed obsolete is hard to accept.

A real 1st Phone license, now expired, will get you a job at any
broadcast station with an opening. It's a badge of accomplishment and
knowledge that had to be worked for.

Licenses aren't required, any more, at broadcast stations. FCC
threatened to not renew station licenses of broadcasters who didn't
have the required number of black transmitter operators, many years
back. Broadcasters pointed out that the number of black operators was
miniscule because of the 1st and 2nd Class license requirements. They
simply weren't available. So, in typical politically-correct
government fashion, FCC reduced the test to GROL and tried again.
Failing to license the required black licensees of the much-simpler
testing, FCC eliminated the license and testing requirements for
broadcast transmitter operators to try to get the numbers up. It
still hasn't worked and FCC stopped threatening the broadcasters soon
after. "Griff", a black engineer at WCSC-TV, gets offers every month
from stations not in compliance. He'll never be out of a job. Being
black AND competent is a very valuable asset, indeed.

The only thing the GROL is useful for, now, is marine and aviation
radio. The only reason it's still in existence is the ITU requires
it.



Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....

Yes the top hat would help out on 2 and 4 mhz frequencies. Problem is
where to put it where it is not in the way.

A loading coil on the stay would also help out but it would work even
better if it was up high nearer to the top of the stay.
Problem is that usually only one antenna is available for all bands on
a boat. At the higher frequencies that loading coil would act as a
choke and effectively disconnect the upper portion of the antenna.
Which may not be all that bad if there is sufficient length below the
coil for the higher frequencies.

The other problem that you may run into is that the auto tuner may not
like the impedance it sees. Most auto tuners do not like to see a
resonant antenna near 50 ohms. But on 2 mhz it would probably help a
lot.

Regards
Gary


On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 12:20:07 -0500, "Vito" wrote:

Tests of mobile antennae in the Amateur Radio 75 meter band (4MHz) yielded
the following results:

* Well-designed Bugcatcher or Screwdriver with top hat 0 dB reference
* Bugcatcher or Screwdriver with no top hat -3 dB
* Hustler or Outbacker -9 dB
* Hamstick -12 dB
* Whip with autotuner -14 dB

This suggests that the common insulated-backstay-with-autotuner used on
sailboats could be improved by adding a capacitive top hat immediately below
the upper insulator and/or a tapped coil in parallel (ie around) the lower
insulator to tune whatever length of antenna one can physically accomodate
to resonate on or near the Marine frequencies of interest, such as 2182 MHz.
Has anyone any experience doing so?

Funny, it is my impression that the reason that a licensed
engineer is no longer required at broadcast stations is that
the transmitters are pretty much automated and self controlled
by their computer. At least the one I am aware of is. I believe
it is connected via the net to a control center that monitors
many transmitters and dispatches licensed techs if any
anomalies are detected.

I got my GROL etc specifically to work with marine systems so
it was worth it in my case. I have no interest in comercial broadcast
stations.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 23:16:29 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

I guess as we grow older the fact that some of our past
accomplishments are deemed obsolete is hard to accept.

A real 1st Phone license, now expired, will get you a job at any
broadcast station with an opening. It's a badge of accomplishment and
knowledge that had to be worked for.

Licenses aren't required, any more, at broadcast stations. FCC
threatened to not renew station licenses of broadcasters who didn't
have the required number of black transmitter operators, many years
back. Broadcasters pointed out that the number of black operators was
miniscule because of the 1st and 2nd Class license requirements. They
simply weren't available. So, in typical politically-correct
government fashion, FCC reduced the test to GROL and tried again.
Failing to license the required black licensees of the much-simpler
testing, FCC eliminated the license and testing requirements for
broadcast transmitter operators to try to get the numbers up. It
still hasn't worked and FCC stopped threatening the broadcasters soon
after. "Griff", a black engineer at WCSC-TV, gets offers every month
from stations not in compliance. He'll never be out of a job. Being
black AND competent is a very valuable asset, indeed.

The only thing the GROL is useful for, now, is marine and aviation
radio. The only reason it's still in existence is the ITU requires
it.



Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....