In article ,
"Doug Dotson" wrote:

Not familiar with a Marine Radio Tech License? I have a GROL
with radar Endorsement and a GMDSS/M, but I'm not aware
that is what you are referring to. The NMEA has a certification
process but that's not really a "license" per se.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

Licensed Marine Radio Tech is a person who has an FCC GROL/w
RADAR/GMDSS-M and is licensed to maintain Maritime Mobile Radio Service
licensed systems aboard US flagged Vessels. The SOLAS Requires that
Title III Part II, and title III Part I Vessels be inspected on an annual
basis and that inspection by a Licensed Marine Radio Tech, be logged in
the Vessel Station Log and a renewed SOLAS Certificate be Issued and
Posted for Public Inspection. In the passed, these inspections were
done by FCC Field Agents, and the SOLAS Certificates, Bridge to Bridge
RadioTelephone Certificates, were issued by the FCC Field Agents, on
completion of the inspection. A similar inspection of Title IIi Part
IIi Vessels needs to be completed every 5 years for those class vessels,
and is done, now, through the same method.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

In article ,
(Larry W4CSC) wrote:

You got it, Doug. Did you have 1st Phone before the shame of the GROL
was thrust upon you? I keep my 1st Phone with Radar in a frame over
my desk. I keep my GROL in the back of the file cabinet so noone can
see I have a CB license...(c;

You had to KNOW something to pass the 1st Phone, not just memorize the
test questions handed to you on a silver platter......It meant
something.

I added GMDSS maintainer and operator, but that was just a rote
memorizer test any fool who can read could pass, like the GROL.....

I actually cheated on the GMDSS tests. I'm a Dale Carnegie graduate.
DC teaches you how to memorize a whole magazine by associating each
page with a visualization. It was the most important thing I got out
of the course.
One - Run
Two - Zoo
Three - Tree
Four - Door
Five - Hive
Six - Sticks
Seven - Heaven
Eight - Grate
Nine - Wine
Ten - Den

I can still hear my instructor harping the first 100 visualizations on
us...(c; It's how I remembered the answers to the question bank,
which is easy after you memorize the ad on page 49 of National Review
for DC class.


Larry W4CSC

Yep, I feel the same way about my GROL, as I keep my First Phone, and
First Graph/Aircraft Endorsement up on the wall, and I only keep the
Pocket version of my Lifetime GROL/Radar/GMDSS-M-O in my wallet.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

In article ,
(Larry W4CSC) wrote:

The only thing the GROL is useful for, now, is marine and aviation
radio. The only reason it's still in existence is the ITU requires
it.



Larry W4CSC

Yep, every CB nut with a screwdriver can now fiddle with any Land Mobile
Radio, Broadcast Transmitter, Microwave System, and Public Safety Radio
System, in the country. And folks wonder why interference complaints
are doubleing every three years.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

In article ,
"Doug Dotson" wrote:

and dispatches licensed techs

Nope Doug, no License Required anymore. Knowledgable Tech's recomeended
but not even required. That's why I got out of the Broadcast Business
35 years ago. To many Carneigie, and Elkins, First Phone's showing up,
and getting OTJ Training on my license as Chief Engineer. There's no
such thing as an Automated 50,000 Watt AM Transmitter. When those
puppy's decide to melt down, they do it in a hurry, and usually with
lots of sparks and steam from the liquid cooling systems. Usually
the finals are pulled at 50% of rated time, but nowdays with skimpy
maintaince money, owners are pushing that out to 80% and catastophic
failure is happen a lot more often. Reminds me of a very cold January
Night when KRAB-FM's antenna took a hell of a wet snow load, and
unbalanced the two 5Kw finals explosivly. I came around the corner
and the DJ on duty was out in the street with a bunch of steaming holes
in the snow where hot final Parts had melted down through the snow.
Took the consulting engineer and I, 8 hours to rebuild the final cage
(Lots of plumbing parts) and get it back on the air.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:07:52 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:

In article ,
(Larry W4CSC) wrote:

The only thing the GROL is useful for, now, is marine and aviation
radio. The only reason it's still in existence is the ITU requires
it.



Larry W4CSC

Yep, every CB nut with a screwdriver can now fiddle with any Land Mobile
Radio, Broadcast Transmitter, Microwave System, and Public Safety Radio
System, in the country. And folks wonder why interference complaints
are doubleing every three years.

Just follow the money.....(c;


Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" wrote:

and dispatches licensed techs

Nope Doug, no License Required anymore.

I misstated my thought. I mean't "qualified techs" since a license is
no longer required.
The question was as to the reason that a license is no
longer required. Larry seems to suggest that it is because very
few blacks are able to get a 1st Phone. My recollection is that
it is because detailed technical knowledge is not required to safely
and legally operate a transmitter these days.

There's no
such thing as an Automated 50,000 Watt AM Transmitter.

Maybe up in Alaska. But I'm pretty sure that is not the case in general.

When those
puppy's decide to melt down, they do it in a hurry, and usually with
lots of sparks and steam from the liquid cooling systems.

My years in the process control industry make me pretty confident that
the computer can sense and react to pretty much anything unusual faster
than the most skilled engineer/tech. Not to say that an on-site person is
not an asset because once the computer has either shut things down or
reduced power to save the transmitter, someone has to diagnose and
fixed the problem.

Usually
the finals are pulled at 50% of rated time, but nowdays with skimpy
maintaince money, owners are pushing that out to 80% and catastophic
failure is happen a lot more often. Reminds me of a very cold January
Night when KRAB-FM's antenna took a hell of a wet snow load, and
unbalanced the two 5Kw finals explosivly. I came around the corner
and the DJ on duty was out in the street with a bunch of steaming holes
in the snow where hot final Parts had melted down through the snow.
Took the consulting engineer and I, 8 hours to rebuild the final cage
(Lots of plumbing parts) and get it back on the air.

A good SCADA system should have sensed the impending problem and
may have been able to save the day. But, as you say, some failures are
so sudden that there is no way out.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

"Bruce in Alaska" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Doug Dotson" wrote:

Not familiar with a Marine Radio Tech License? I have a GROL
with radar Endorsement and a GMDSS/M, but I'm not aware
that is what you are referring to. The NMEA has a certification
process but that's not really a "license" per se.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

Licensed Marine Radio Tech is a person who has an FCC GROL/w
RADAR/GMDSS-M and is licensed to maintain Maritime Mobile Radio Service
licensed systems aboard US flagged Vessels.

Then I guess I R 1. But what is the second part of your statement? The part
that
reads "and is licensed to maintain Maritime Mobile Radio Service
licensed systems aboard US flagged Vessels"? What is this license? Who
issues it?

The SOLAS Requires that
Title III Part II, and title III Part I Vessels be inspected on an annual
basis and that inspection by a Licensed Marine Radio Tech, be logged in
the Vessel Station Log and a renewed SOLAS Certificate be Issued and
Posted for Public Inspection. In the passed, these inspections were
done by FCC Field Agents, and the SOLAS Certificates, Bridge to Bridge
RadioTelephone Certificates, were issued by the FCC Field Agents, on
completion of the inspection. A similar inspection of Title IIi Part
IIi Vessels needs to be completed every 5 years for those class vessels,
and is done, now, through the same method.

I remember all the mumbo-jumbo from the GMDSS license. So is the GMDSS/M
license what makes one all of these fancy titles or is there some other
authority that grants these lofty titles.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 00:43:14 GMT, Larry W4CSC wrote:

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 16:16:41 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

Not familiar with a Marine Radio Tech License? I have a GROL
with radar Endorsement and a GMDSS/M, but I'm not aware
that is what you are referring to. The NMEA has a certification
process but that's not really a "license" per se.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

You got it, Doug. Did you have 1st Phone before the shame of the GROL
was thrust upon you? I keep my 1st Phone with Radar in a frame over
my desk. I keep my GROL in the back of the file cabinet so noone can
see I have a CB license...(c;

You had to KNOW something to pass the 1st Phone, not just memorize the
test questions handed to you on a silver platter......It meant
something.

I had a 1st as well, but frankly thought the 2d was a good deal harder. If
nothing else, it was a lot longer! I recall the 1st was 50 questions (and
it seems like it was mostly law) and the 2d was 200 questions. I passed
them both, but I recall spending a long time on the 2d. Never did the
GMDSS/M or radar.

I thought that after the FCC went to General Commercial that NABER or
someone like that handled endorsements for a while, but then they gave that
up. Do you remember what happened to that stuff?

--

Larry W1HJF
email is rapp at lmr dot com

Er, ah, Bruce? There are no "finals" any more. The 50KW transmitter
is just a switching power supply from Harris.....take a look at:
http://www.geocities.com/aaron_white/inside.html
It's all done by that big board switching the modules on and off at
the audio rate, in sequence. See those two little powertab
transistors on the copper heat sink? THOSE ARE THE FINALS!

If a module fails, the computer simply bypasses it and uses another
module (there are spares) until someone shows up at the transmitter to
look for the failure lights. They don't even shut down the
transmitter to swap them out, any more. Hot swaps just like a
computer...(c;

The two PC boards on the door are the "modulator", the drivers for the
modules creating the RF. It's so efficient it's cooled with small
FANS! To produce a 50,000 watt carrier, it requires only 55,000 watts
of AC power from the power company, not the 120KW we were accustomed
to. No massive filament power, no blood-red plates being cooled with
water, no cooling pond.

The RF modules (there are 144 of them in a Harris DX-50, 50KW
transmitter) look like:
http://www.geocities.com/aaron_white/dxmod.html
Some are 100W, 500W, 1KW, 2KW. The audio is simply converted into how
many modules run at this instant in time. The modules, themselves are
switching on and off at the carrier rate. The output filter takes out
the 3rd harmonic caused by the square wave switching up. Nothing
analog to make heat. It's a RF synthesized sinewave just like your
boat inverter.

You'll be glad to know from the Harris out it's still RF....(c;
Here's the ATU at WFAN:
http://www.geocities.com/aaron_white/atu1.html
75KW dummy load:
http://www.geocities.com/aaron_white/load.html

50KW isn't what it used to be...(sigh).
http://www.geocities.com/aaron_white/maintx.html
The modulator and final are inside the right doors. The other end is
the power supply. Kinda a non-event unless the RF output flashes
over, which my friends in broadcasting says is also a non-event for
the digital transmitter. It simply clears it, resets and tries again.
If it continues to flash over, the transmitter comes up in low power
(10KW) until the techies show up.....

The computer that operates the transmitter is in that rack to the left
of the Harris at WFAN. The whole thing is in a corner of the
transmitter shack which is mostly taken up by the darkened old 50KW
monster you're thinking about.

Tom Ray, Director of Engineering over at WOR in NYC, sent me some cool
pictures of their IBOC Digital AM experiments on their Harris DX-50.
If you listen to WOR or WLW's IBOC on a regular AM radio you hear a
faint hissing sound that is the digital subcarriers. The two
stations, 10 Khz apart, are experimenting with interference caused by
the IBOC carriers. Most interesting.....AM that sounds like mono-FM
but at great distances.



On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:20:46 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:

In article ,
"Doug Dotson" wrote:

and dispatches licensed techs

Nope Doug, no License Required anymore. Knowledgable Tech's recomeended
but not even required. That's why I got out of the Broadcast Business
35 years ago. To many Carneigie, and Elkins, First Phone's showing up,
and getting OTJ Training on my license as Chief Engineer. There's no
such thing as an Automated 50,000 Watt AM Transmitter. When those
puppy's decide to melt down, they do it in a hurry, and usually with
lots of sparks and steam from the liquid cooling systems. Usually
the finals are pulled at 50% of rated time, but nowdays with skimpy
maintaince money, owners are pushing that out to 80% and catastophic
failure is happen a lot more often. Reminds me of a very cold January
Night when KRAB-FM's antenna took a hell of a wet snow load, and
unbalanced the two 5Kw finals explosivly. I came around the corner
and the DJ on duty was out in the street with a bunch of steaming holes
in the snow where hot final Parts had melted down through the snow.
Took the consulting engineer and I, 8 hours to rebuild the final cage
(Lots of plumbing parts) and get it back on the air.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @


Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....

Thanks for the clarification Larry. I was pretty sure that modern
transmitter technology wasn't something I had in a dream. I was up
in Fairbanks a couple years ago and I suspect that keeping
the finals cool isn't much of a problem there My father was
the engineer for a UHF station back in the late 50's. He told
stories of having to run out and get bottles of Nitrogen to keep
the finals going. Life is much simpler now.

Doug, k3qt
s/v Callista

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
Er, ah, Bruce? There are no "finals" any more. The 50KW transmitter
is just a switching power supply from Harris.....take a look at:
http://www.geocities.com/aaron_white/inside.html
It's all done by that big board switching the modules on and off at
the audio rate, in sequence. See those two little powertab
transistors on the copper heat sink? THOSE ARE THE FINALS!

If a module fails, the computer simply bypasses it and uses another
module (there are spares) until someone shows up at the transmitter to
look for the failure lights. They don't even shut down the
transmitter to swap them out, any more. Hot swaps just like a
computer...(c;

The two PC boards on the door are the "modulator", the drivers for the
modules creating the RF. It's so efficient it's cooled with small
FANS! To produce a 50,000 watt carrier, it requires only 55,000 watts
of AC power from the power company, not the 120KW we were accustomed
to. No massive filament power, no blood-red plates being cooled with
water, no cooling pond.

The RF modules (there are 144 of them in a Harris DX-50, 50KW
transmitter) look like:
http://www.geocities.com/aaron_white/dxmod.html
Some are 100W, 500W, 1KW, 2KW. The audio is simply converted into how
many modules run at this instant in time. The modules, themselves are
switching on and off at the carrier rate. The output filter takes out
the 3rd harmonic caused by the square wave switching up. Nothing
analog to make heat. It's a RF synthesized sinewave just like your
boat inverter.

You'll be glad to know from the Harris out it's still RF....(c;
Here's the ATU at WFAN:
http://www.geocities.com/aaron_white/atu1.html
75KW dummy load:
http://www.geocities.com/aaron_white/load.html

50KW isn't what it used to be...(sigh).
http://www.geocities.com/aaron_white/maintx.html
The modulator and final are inside the right doors. The other end is
the power supply. Kinda a non-event unless the RF output flashes
over, which my friends in broadcasting says is also a non-event for
the digital transmitter. It simply clears it, resets and tries again.
If it continues to flash over, the transmitter comes up in low power
(10KW) until the techies show up.....

The computer that operates the transmitter is in that rack to the left
of the Harris at WFAN. The whole thing is in a corner of the
transmitter shack which is mostly taken up by the darkened old 50KW
monster you're thinking about.

Tom Ray, Director of Engineering over at WOR in NYC, sent me some cool
pictures of their IBOC Digital AM experiments on their Harris DX-50.
If you listen to WOR or WLW's IBOC on a regular AM radio you hear a
faint hissing sound that is the digital subcarriers. The two
stations, 10 Khz apart, are experimenting with interference caused by
the IBOC carriers. Most interesting.....AM that sounds like mono-FM
but at great distances.



On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:20:46 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:

In article ,
"Doug Dotson" wrote:

and dispatches licensed techs

Nope Doug, no License Required anymore. Knowledgable Tech's recomeended
but not even required. That's why I got out of the Broadcast Business
35 years ago. To many Carneigie, and Elkins, First Phone's showing up,
and getting OTJ Training on my license as Chief Engineer. There's no
such thing as an Automated 50,000 Watt AM Transmitter. When those
puppy's decide to melt down, they do it in a hurry, and usually with
lots of sparks and steam from the liquid cooling systems. Usually
the finals are pulled at 50% of rated time, but nowdays with skimpy
maintaince money, owners are pushing that out to 80% and catastophic
failure is happen a lot more often. Reminds me of a very cold January
Night when KRAB-FM's antenna took a hell of a wet snow load, and
unbalanced the two 5Kw finals explosivly. I came around the corner
and the DJ on duty was out in the street with a bunch of steaming holes
in the snow where hot final Parts had melted down through the snow.
Took the consulting engineer and I, 8 hours to rebuild the final cage
(Lots of plumbing parts) and get it back on the air.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @


Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....