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headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 21:06:04 -0400, in message
"Roger Long" wrote: The thing that got me thinking about the smaller, compromize Genoa I had built was noticing how much faster the boat was to windward with the small working jib in fresh breezes. The performance difference between the 150% and the working jib (about a 110% overlap) even in light air and on reaches was much less than the difference in sail area would indicate. I don't know about anybody else, but my racing bias tends towards too much sail. The last couple of weeks we went cruising with the cocktail jib (about 115% with a really high clew) on the furler. As best I could tell, the speed penalty was 10 or 15 percent and 3 or 5 degrees of point. Based on observing the boats around us, most cruisers don't seem to care about that. The really big plus is that you can carry a sail like that well up to about 25 knots to weather without having to roll it in, and you can do what we call "cruising tacks" -- slow turns with enough time luffing to trim without much power grinding. Ryk |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
Ryk
My headsail size is determined by the best VMG (not speed) I can get. Many times a too big sail plan will have too much leeward slip when going 'up' ... drops VMG catastrophically. Its my belief that the high end race folks match the SA to the optimum VMG for best performance upwind and thats why it seems that over the years the headsails are getting smaller and smaller in LP. Such is also 'easier on the rig' as a BIG LP heasail needs lots of winch pressure which ultimately reacts to sag off the headstay to leeward, ... requires more backstay tension, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. :-) |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:02:16 -0700 (PDT), in message
RichH wrote: Ryk My headsail size is determined by the best VMG (not speed) I can get. Many times a too big sail plan will have too much leeward slip when going 'up' ... drops VMG catastrophically. Its my belief that the high end race folks match the SA to the optimum VMG for best performance upwind and thats why it seems that over the years the headsails are getting smaller and smaller in LP. The high end race folks go through endless headsail changes to optimize VMG. Rigs have moved towards smaller headsails and bigger mains to make it easier to "change gears", as far as I can tell. Such is also 'easier on the rig' as a BIG LP heasail needs lots of winch pressure which ultimately reacts to sag off the headstay to leeward, ... requires more backstay tension, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Easier on the crew as well. My point was that a cruising sail plan can include a small jib with no practical loss of performance unless things go really light. Ryk :-) |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 02:16:33 GMT, in message
2008080922163375249-jerelull@maccom Jere Lull wrote: On 2008-08-09 09:34:28 -0400, Gogarty said: I also have a Harken. Came with the boat, which is now 27 years old. Works very well most of the time except when the wind gets over 20 and you can't blanket it behind the main. Even a flogging jib at that wind speed is a heavy load. Try working on straightening the lead of the furling line. It's amazing how much drag an extra block or too-wide angle can add. Also take care to control the furling line on the roll-out -- it will feed into the drum much more neatly with a little tension and be much easier to roll up later. Ryk |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2008081308125316807-jerelull@maccom... On 2008-08-12 15:46:23 -0400, "Capt. JG" said: "Jere Lull" wrote in message news:2008081215230316807-jerelull@maccom... It's not the size, but the balance -- in the rudder and the boat trim and geometry. I guess that's true, but size does matter. LOL My Cal 20 had a huge rudder for its size and it tracked quite nicely with minimal weather helm. Yes size helps, but Xan's original rudder was scimitar-shaped with slab sides and a center of effort about 10" behind the pintles. The rudder I built had the same wetted surface, but was SO much better, very little "helm" until we were well heeled. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ Sounds like you're well heeled already! (I mean understanding what's what... sorry, stupid pun.) -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:09:07 -0400, in message
"Roger Long" wrote: "RichH" wrote If possible, I only buy fuel from a marina as the very last resort; Id rather 'jug it' from a truck stop as the chances of fresh uncontaminated fuel is much much less. :-) That's what I'm doing. I've got enough on board to motor for 75% of my planned route so I shouldn't need to re-fuel this cruise. On a twentyfive litre jug and a twenty cent a litre premium, that's five bucks a jug, or about a buck an hour to run my Atomic 4, making the convenience of a marina fill-up one of the cheapest things I can buy for the boat. As for fuel freshness, our gas dock clears the tanks in about a week. Ryk |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
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headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:12:52 GMT, in message
2008081308125316807-jerelull@maccom Jere Lull wrote: Yes size helps, but Xan's original rudder was scimitar-shaped with slab sides and a center of effort about 10" behind the pintles. The rudder I built had the same wetted surface, but was SO much better, very little "helm" until we were well heeled. I think the 28 rudder was the same shape as the original Tanzer 26 rudder, with the same problem. Did you build yours based on the T26 changes, or just common sense? I actually liked the load on the old T26 rudder, as the main sheet in one hand (6:1) and the tiller in the other balanced. Ryk |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On 2008-08-13 13:35:59 -0400, Ryk said:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 02:16:33 GMT, in message 2008080922163375249-jerelull@maccom Jere Lull wrote: On 2008-08-09 09:34:28 -0400, Gogarty said: I also have a Harken. Came with the boat, which is now 27 years old. Works very well most of the time except when the wind gets over 20 and you can't blanket it behind the main. Even a flogging jib at that wind speed is a heavy load. Try working on straightening the lead of the furling line. It's amazing how much drag an extra block or too-wide angle can add. Also take care to control the furling line on the roll-out -- it will feed into the drum much more neatly with a little tension and be much easier to roll up later. That's a subject I intentionally left out. Since I use a small spare winch as my snubber, it's easy to use it to control furling line line tension. It's so lovely to watch the furling line wind up and down the drum tightly as the sail pulls itself out. Oh, GAWD, what a mess I've seen when the furling line randomly wound up. Couldn't let the sail fully out as the line filled up the available space too quickly. When hauling in, the line slipped under previous wraps, making it impossible to furl the sail again. I doubt anyone will make that particular mistake twice. It can make for an entirely too-busy afternoon. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On 2008-08-13 14:02:21 -0400, "Capt. JG" said:
Yes size helps, but Xan's original rudder was scimitar-shaped with slab sides and a center of effort about 10" behind the pintles. The rudder I built had the same wetted surface, but was SO much better, very little "helm" until we were well heeled. Jere Lull Sounds like you're well heeled already! (I mean understanding what's what... sorry, stupid pun.) No problem. I was hunting for a different pun, but yours is a good alternative and a nice compliment at the same time ;-) Thanks for that. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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