|
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
like the header sez...
|
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Aug 8, 9:58 pm, mister b wrote:
like the header sez... I like my CDI. I installed it myself twice. A couple of months ago I took it off to tighten the headstay and am about to put it back on. |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
|
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On 2008-08-08 23:06:53 -0400, said:
On Aug 8, 9:58 pm, mister b wrote: like the header sez... I like my CDI. I installed it myself twice. A couple of months ago I took it off to tighten the headstay and am about to put it back on. Another vote for CDI. About 20 years' problem-free use on two boats. Initial setup can be a problem IF you don't follow the directions as soon as you receive it. Bulletproof, though a pre-feeder is good for the larger sizes. OH! WHAT SIZE BOAT? -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
Since it is harder to change headsails with a roller rig, I've found that
sail plan and size is more important than I've heard discussed. My E32 came with big 150% Genoa on the theory that it would do everything. The problem was that, when rolled up to the size appropriate for the typical strong wind, it lost too much shape and had too much bulk rolled on the head stay for the boat to go to windward well. I therefore had to carry a working jib in case I was ever faced with a long beat to windward and go through the whole swapping routine. Changing headsails on a roller rig is harder not just because of the foil set up but because a "do everything" roller Genoa has to be of heavier cloth to stand up to the strains when reefed and the rolling. Add luff foam and leach sun cover and It makes for a big bulky sail bag and hard work bagging on the foredeck. I had my new headsail built last winter cut to 135% size with a very high clew. The latter feature makes sailing in congested waters vastly more enjoyable and safer at a performance penalty I would only notice in a race with an identical boat. The area reduction means that the sail will still have decent shape when reefed down to size for 20 - 25 knot winds. I really haven't noticed any performance difference with the full sail plan that I can tie to the reduction in overlap. I no longer carry the working jib although I will put it back on board for any long trips that might involved long beats in 25 knot plus winds. I used to change jibs a couple times a month as different weather systems went through but, no more. The E32 is a bit on the tender side so these sizes are not a guide to all boats. If you are ordering a new roller headsail, figure out the jib size for winds in the low 20's and tell your sailmaker to make the full size such that you will still have decent shape when rolled down that amount. -- Roger Long |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:58:34 -0500, mister b wrote:
like the header sez... I have a Harken, and it has been completely reliable and trouble-free for over 10 years. |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 06:26:39 +0000, Jere Lull wrote:
Another vote for CDI. OH! WHAT SIZE BOAT? Hinterhoeller HR28 |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008 06:06:35 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote: Since it is harder to change headsails with a roller rig, I've found that sail plan and size is more important than I've heard discussed. My E32 came with big 150% Genoa on the theory that it would do everything. The problem was that, when rolled up to the size appropriate for the typical strong wind, it lost too much shape and had too much bulk rolled on the head stay for the boat to go to windward well. I therefore had to carry a working jib in case I was ever faced with a long beat to windward and go through the whole swapping routine. Changing headsails on a roller rig is harder not just because of the foil set up but because a "do everything" roller Genoa has to be of heavier cloth to stand up to the strains when reefed and the rolling. Add luff foam and leach sun cover and It makes for a big bulky sail bag and hard work bagging on the foredeck. I had my new headsail built last winter cut to 135% size with a very high clew. The latter feature makes sailing in congested waters vastly more enjoyable and safer at a performance penalty I would only notice in a race with an identical boat. The area reduction means that the sail will still have decent shape when reefed down to size for 20 - 25 knot winds. I really haven't noticed any performance difference with the full sail plan that I can tie to the reduction in overlap. I no longer carry the working jib although I will put it back on board for any long trips that might involved long beats in 25 knot plus winds. I used to change jibs a couple times a month as different weather systems went through but, no more. The E32 is a bit on the tender side so these sizes are not a guide to all boats. If you are ordering a new roller headsail, figure out the jib size for winds in the low 20's and tell your sailmaker to make the full size such that you will still have decent shape when rolled down that amount. Kappa Sails in Westbrook Connecticut makes an excellent "reefable" genoa. Two different progressive weights in one sail. A 135 that can roll down to a well shaped 100. If my present sails were not in such good shape, I'd have one. I have a main from him, and it's a thing of geat beauty. |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
Do downhauls count?
|
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 06:06:35 -0400, Roger Long wrote:
Since it is harder to change headsails with a roller rig, I've found that sail plan and size is more important than I've heard discussed. My E32 came with big 150% Genoa on the theory that it would do everything. The problem was that, when rolled up to the size appropriate for the typical strong wind, it lost too much shape and had too much bulk rolled on the head stay for the boat to go to windward well. the guy down the dock has a Jeppeson x-102 with a 135% on a Harken roller...he's been sailing longer than I've been alive...where we sail, daytime heating and funneling in the bay produce regular conditions of 20kts+ steady, with frequent gusting in the 30-40kt range...he solos so in these times, he'll drop his main and roll the jib way in well below 100%...his boat still moves well to windward...so I'm confused about the claims of poor shape/performance when rolled way in...he says it's BS and has the empirical evidence at hand...I guess it depends on context. If you are ordering a new roller headsail, figure out the jib size for winds in the low 20's and tell your sailmaker to make the full size such that you will still have decent shape when rolled down that amount. Seems reasonable...I've bought a 3yr. old 135% that I want to get cut to fit a roller. I've found out the hard way that a 135% is just too much sail for my sailing grounds...every day around noon the big guy in the sky pushes the blow-like-stink button and getting that hanked-on sail changed is getting too exciting for the admiral! |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
"Roger Long" wrote in message ... Since it is harder to change headsails with a roller rig, I've found that sail plan and size is more important than I've heard discussed. My E32 came with big 150% Genoa on the theory that it would do everything. The problem was that, when rolled up to the size appropriate for the typical strong wind, it lost too much shape and had too much bulk rolled on the head stay for the boat to go to windward well. I therefore had to carry a working jib in case I was ever faced with a long beat to windward and go through the whole swapping routine. Changing headsails on a roller rig is harder not just because of the foil set up but because a "do everything" roller Genoa has to be of heavier cloth to stand up to the strains when reefed and the rolling. Add luff foam and leach sun cover and It makes for a big bulky sail bag and hard work bagging on the foredeck. I had my new headsail built last winter cut to 135% size with a very high clew. The latter feature makes sailing in congested waters vastly more enjoyable and safer at a performance penalty I would only notice in a race with an identical boat. The area reduction means that the sail will still have decent shape when reefed down to size for 20 - 25 knot winds. I really haven't noticed any performance difference with the full sail plan that I can tie to the reduction in overlap. I no longer carry the working jib although I will put it back on board for any long trips that might involved long beats in 25 knot plus winds. I used to change jibs a couple times a month as different weather systems went through but, no more. The E32 is a bit on the tender side so these sizes are not a guide to all boats. If you are ordering a new roller headsail, figure out the jib size for winds in the low 20's and tell your sailmaker to make the full size such that you will still have decent shape when rolled down that amount. My boat came with a nearly new Profurl system which has been entirely satisfactory and easy to use. The foil cames with two grooves so theoretically you can hoist one sail before you lower the other as I have several extra halliards. This is fine if you have a full crew for racing but I sail with just my wife for crew and all halliards are led back to the cockpit so there is a bit too much for two to do when changing headsails even though we have an excellent Simrad pilot which counts as a third member of crew on board. In my previous boat I have had my fill of being well offshore in a storm, trying to unhank a foresail , get it down the fore hatch instead of overboard and then trying to hank on a storm jib, so for me the roller is the way to go.. All the foresails that came with the boat from 150% mylar genny down to the storm jib have been fitted with bolt 'ropes' that fit the foils so even changing to the storm jib would be a hassle and involve visiting the foredeck. .. Luckily, in addition to all the racing sails I have a nearly new Mack 130% foresail which was built specifically for furling and sets beautifully however much it is furled so it is the only foresail I use. |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 07:55:06 -0400, wrote:
like the header sez... I have a Harken, and it has been completely reliable and trouble-free for over 10 years. The Harken furler has consistently ranked near the top of tests and surveys that I have seen. I'd recommend getting it professionally installed by someone who knows it well. |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
"Roger Long" wrote in
: If you are ordering a new roller headsail, figure out the jib size for winds in the low 20's and tell your sailmaker to make the full size such that you will still have decent shape when rolled down that amount. I'll remember all this the next time I reef the genoa by pressing the furl button while easing the sheet on the Amel....(c; I really got spoiled..... |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 11:16:43 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sat, 09 Aug 2008 07:55:06 -0400, wrote: like the header sez... I have a Harken, and it has been completely reliable and trouble-free for over 10 years. The Harken furler has consistently ranked near the top of tests and surveys that I have seen. I'd recommend getting it professionally installed by someone who knows it well. In the fifties Lands End sold only sailboat stuff. Rigging parts, compasses, various blocks, some by Harken. Only clothes were foul weather gear and lifejackets. Casady |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
"mister b" wrote
in these times, he'll drop his main and roll the jib way in well below 100%...his boat still moves well to windward...so I'm confused about the claims of poor shape/performance when rolled way in...he says it's BS and has the empirical evidence at hand...I guess it depends on context. Is he just moving well to windward or is he beating to reach an objective to windward? A jib rolled way down (I think you meant 50%) will still drive the boat to windward but it won't point very well or be as fast as with smaller sail not rolled down as much. I could get my boat to make steady progress to windward with the old 150% genoa rolled down to nearly that amount but it was pretty discouraging to look at the GPS track on a long beat. The thing that got me thinking about the smaller, compromize Genoa I had built was noticing how much faster the boat was to windward with the small working jib in fresh breezes. The performance difference between the 150% and the working jib (about a 110% overlap) even in light air and on reaches was much less than the difference in sail area would indicate. -- Roger Long |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On 2008-08-09 21:06:04 -0400, "Roger Long" said:
The performance difference between the 150% and the working jib (about a 110% overlap) even in light air and on reaches was much less than the difference in sail area would indicate. Upwind, the difference is pretty much the difference in length about a foot or so behind the luff, where the power comes from. There's some benefit from less drag in the smaller sail, too. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On 2008-08-09 09:34:28 -0400, Gogarty said:
I also have a Harken. Came with the boat, which is now 27 years old. Works very well most of the time except when the wind gets over 20 and you can't blanket it behind the main. Even a flogging jib at that wind speed is a heavy load. Try working on straightening the lead of the furling line. It's amazing how much drag an extra block or too-wide angle can add. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
"mister b" wrote in message
m... like the header sez... I have a Schaefer on my Sabre. Had it installed professionally (along with some other standing rigging) when I got the boat a couple of years ago. It's been built-proof in the fairly demanding conditions here.. inshore on the SF bay and offshore about 20 miles. I have a relatively small working jib with a high foot. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
"Ernest Scribbler" wrote in message
. .. Do downhauls count? I had one of those on my Cal 20... worked like a charm. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
"Jere Lull" wrote
Upwind, the difference is pretty much the difference in length about a foot or so behind the luff, where the power comes from. There's some benefit from less drag in the smaller sail, too. Exactly. My old Genoa, reefed down to the area the boat could carry in fresh conditions, had less leading edge than the working jib. I now have just a bit more area than the old working jib with full length leading edge and more leading edge when reefed to the old working jib size. The overlap area is really only effective reaching and, if you want the 150% area for light air, better to put it in an asym. -- Roger Long |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
The furling line should end in a ratchet block and then lead forward to the
cleat. The ideal location is such that you are located about mid way between the block and the first fairlead. You can then reach down and swig the line while holding the free end to lock the ratchet block. This lets you develop quite a bit of extra power without the risk of overdoing it with a winch ($$$$) and pump in the first few rolls. I would have been in a real pickle last fall when caught close too a nasty lee shore in a sudden gust front if I hadn't just converted to this arrangement. I couldn't run off and was suddenly overpowered enough that I'm not sure I could have gotten the boat to tack. New Englanders can read the full story in the October "Points East". Anticipation is an important part of using a roller rig. -- Roger Long |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On 2008-08-10 07:22:14 -0400, "Roger Long" said:
The furling line should end in a ratchet block and then lead forward to the cleat. The ideal location is such that you are located about mid way between the block and the first fairlead. You can then reach down and swig the line while holding the free end to lock the ratchet block. This lets you develop quite a bit of extra power without the risk of overdoing it with a winch ($$$$) and pump in the first few rolls. On our boat, that would put that turning block well aft in the cockpit, crossing sheets and the primary -- full-time. That disturbs me. Why not just go around the primary winch for the short period? You won't have the jib sheets on it at those times. (BTW, you just described another form of winching.) I happen to use a cabin-top winch as our "snub" for the furling line. (When tying off, I wrap the line a dozen or so times around the winch, many wraps overlapping previous ones, before going to the cleat.) I can't winch with the winch as the lead is wrong (coming down), but with only two blocks in the lead's run, I have very little drag and have furled the sail in 25++ fairly easily. I can get a little more power by bracing a foot against the bulkhead; two feet and "lift with the knees" gives real power, yet I can feel if the "haul" is wrong (usually the chute halyard wrapping up top). -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
"Capt. JG" wrote in message easolutions... "Ernest Scribbler" wrote in message . .. Do downhauls count? I had one of those on my Gay 20... worked like a champ. -- "j" ganz @@ www.nambla.com Too Much Information |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm
always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the sheet around it to get a nice tight furl. I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The key point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over pull with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a couple days ago. -- Roger Long |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:38:55 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote: Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the sheet around it to get a nice tight furl. I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The key point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over pull with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a couple days ago. Harken says that if you need to use a winch to furl, there is something wrong with either your setup or your technique. I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a winch. |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On 2008-08-10 16:57:43 -0400, said:
I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a winch. A trick: I added a short tail of 3/8" braid to the end of ours and put a loop in the end. Easy to grip. A beneficial unexpected consequence is that the line can't slip through the block if the sail snaps out quickly. We only use gloves on our boat for chill protection. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On 2008-08-10 13:38:55 -0400, "Roger Long" said:
Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the sheet around it to get a nice tight furl. The 135 sheets to the primaries on the coming, and even if I were using the 110 on the cabin-top secondaries, I can get the tight furl from the port-side sheet. Remember, we're talking about furling in heavier winds, a time when we'll obtain a tight furl anyway. In light airs, I don't need to snub the furling line. If that's not clear (somewhat expected), let's just say that it works for us. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
In article ,
wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:38:55 -0400, "Roger Long" wrote: Sounds like your cockpit is arranged quite a bit differently than mine. I'm always using my jib winch when furling because I run a single turn of the sheet around it to get a nice tight furl. I can't see anything wrong with the way you are doing it though. The key point is to have some "feel" which swigging provides. Too easy to over pull with a winch. I was just looking at a broken Harken torque tube a couple days ago. Harken says that if you need to use a winch to furl, there is something wrong with either your setup or your technique. I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a winch. Schaefer says the same thing, as do all the people I know with furlers. I've never had to use more than regular effort to furl, even in 20kts. It's odd that there would be that much on the furling line. |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 22:34:23 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:
On 2008-08-10 16:57:43 -0400, said: I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a winch. A trick: I added a short tail of 3/8" braid to the end of ours and put a loop in the end. Easy to grip. A beneficial unexpected consequence is that the line can't slip through the block if the sail snaps out quickly. We only use gloves on our boat for chill protection. Be glad that you don't have arthritis. |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
|
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
In article ,
wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:42:22 -0500, lid (Jonathan Ganz) wrote: I find I have to use heavily padded gloves for that small diameter furling line when the wind is up, but never had to resort to using a winch. Schaefer says the same thing, as do all the people I know with furlers. I've never had to use more than regular effort to furl, even in 20kts. It's odd that there would be that much on the furling line. When the wind suddenly pipes up, my 170% genoa can be a bear to wind up. That's where heavy gloves come in handy. If I seem to be having more trouble than normal, I immediately check to see if I've neglected something, such as the backstay adjuster, or an over tight halyard. I've always avoided using the winch, because the manufacturer said that was a bad thing to do and should never be necessary of everythng is setup and adjusted properly. Ah.. 170. Yeah, that might be a tad harder than my small, working jib. |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
Roger implies the limits of ***function**** of headsail furlers.
A headsail on a 'furler' can only be reduced by 30% SA and still retain any good shape. Beyond 30% reduction and you wind up with a 'BAG" shape instead of a usable sail shape for any 'upwind' work. 135 X .70 = 95% So, you can reduce a 135 down to a 'working jib' (100%) size without shape problems. A 150 can usually only be reduced to a 105, etc. A furler usually cannot tolerate heavy luff loads, as would be necessary to change the luff entry shape (the 'forward curve shape' at the luff) of a jib/genoa; crank on luff tension to a furler with a halyard and to *Jam*. ..... probably the prime reason that you'll never ever see a genoa/jib furler on a serious racing boat. My impression is that most 'kroozers' dont know (or care) how to 'shape' sails ... as one hardly ever sees a 'kroozer' without a furler. So Roger, put your working jib back on board when travelling as your can roll that puppy down to a 70% sail. Same arguments apply to mainsail furlers - sail shape. |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On 2008-08-11 00:51:51 -0400, RichH said:
A furler usually cannot tolerate heavy luff loads Excuse me? It's been years since any "modern" furler design failed for merely luff loads. The strains on a furler decrease dramatically as the sail is furled. Even the baggiest furled-size 110 won't strain a foil nearly as much as a real 110. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
"RichH" wrote
A furler usually cannot tolerate heavy luff loads, as would be necessary to change the luff entry shape (the 'forward curve shape' at the luff) of a jib/genoa; crank on luff tension to a furler with a halyard and to *Jam*. ..... probably the prime reason that you'll never ever see a genoa/jib furler on a serious racing boat. This somewhat depends on halyard geometry. You see some setups where the halyard leads at an angle from the foil. This is good for minimizing halyard wraps but pulls the end of the foil against the stay. My halyard is pretty much in line with the stay but short so no wrap problems or strain. I get pretty good halyard tension with my rather unusual jib halyard arrangement. The halyard cleat is on a track with a strong tackle that hauls it down the mast and the fall led back to the cockpit. I had not trouble rolling with good tension last year. The sailmaker recommended that I release the tension on my new sail before stowing to preserve the shape so this arrangment has proven quite convienient. I occasionally forget to de-tension the halyard and have not noticed any difference in furling force. I did work a good gop of Teflon grease down into the end of the foil before putting the rig up this year and have my foil adjusted so the end runs on the terminal swage sleeve. So Roger, put your working jib back on board when travelling as your can roll that puppy down to a 70% sail. The shape of my new Genoa is pretty good at about 70% size. I had luff foam put in which I'm told has gone out of style but does seem to do a good job of increasing the amount that can be rolled up. I will probably switch to the working jib if knowingly facing a long beat in 25 knot plus conditions but I wouldn't make the switch just for traveling. With the third reef I had put in the main and a touch of power, I should be able to handle anything with the 135% that is likely to come up unexpectedly. BTW I had a dock neighbor very interested in my fuel system yesterday. He takes fishing parties out so is one of the few people still using much fuel. He said that so few people are buying fuel that lots of people are getting poor fuel because the long hoses are sitting out in the sun for much longer periods. The fuel polisher in Portland evidently is no longer in business this year. -- Roger Long |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On 10 Aug 2008 20:18:03 -0500, Dave wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:51:34 -0400, said: When the wind suddenly pipes up, my 170% genoa can be a bear to wind up. That's where heavy gloves come in handy. You carry a 170 furler? And I thought I was maybe overdoing it with a 150. I would never have gone out and bought one. It came with the boat, and I don't use it that often. As I pointed out, here in the LIS, the wind sometimes whispers at 3-5 knots for hours and then suddenly jumps to 15 without much warning. You don't always get an opportunity to "reef early". Unless I'm anticipating a long sail in very light conditions, it usually stays at home, and I don't even keep it onboard. I have a pretty nice 155%, so it's really not worth the extra weight or storage space. |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On 2008-08-11 09:57:02 -0400, Dave said:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:51:51 -0700 (PDT), RichH said: A headsail on a 'furler' can only be reduced by 30% SA and still retain any good shape. Beyond 30% reduction and you wind up with a 'BAG" shape instead of a usable sail shape for any 'upwind' work. 135 X .70 = 95% So, you can reduce a 135 down to a 'working jib' (100%) size without shape problems. A 150 can usually only be reduced to a 105, et That's consistent with what I've experienced. I generally end up taking a second reef in the main before rolling any of the 150 in. On any masthead rig, that's the way to go. The foresail is more efficient than the main. Additionally, when properly reefed, the main gets flatter (less heel and weather helm) and more efficient, with less drag. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
This somewhat depends on halyard geometry. *You see some setups where the halyard leads at an angle from the foil. *This is good for minimizing halyard wraps but pulls the end of the foil against the stay. ........ *******Not talking about lead angles of the top swivel to halyard sheeve.... but the deflection of the torlon bealls under extreme compressive load from extreme halyard tension; hence, the tendency to begin to jam or add a lot of friction. My recent Harken starts to jam when at extreme halyard loads. But then again 'kroozers' have no idea that it takes halyard strain to 'shape' a sail so its probably a non-issue for those who simply 'just raise' a sail. I release the tension on my new sail ********Damn good idea as 'creep' (permanent elastic deformation) is what eventually 'kills' the shape of a sail. I had luff foam put in which I'm told has gone out of style but does seem to do a good job of increasing the amount that can be rolled up. * I will probably switch to the working jib if knowingly facing a long beat in 25 knot plus conditions but I wouldn't make the switch just for traveling. *With the third reef I had put in the main and a touch of power, I should be able to handle anything with the 135% that is likely to come up unexpectedly. ******* The newer modern cutting programs (with "S" curve luff hollow profiles) have mostly obsoleted the need for foam luffs ... although on a BIG sail you still sometimes need a wee bit of foam luff to 'help' the partly furled shape - still 30% reduction is about as good as it gets; and, that assumes that one knows how to set the correct backstay/headstay tension to match the actual 'luff hollow' that is cut into the headsail when its fully wind-loaded BTW I had a dock neighbor very interested in my fuel system yesterday. *He takes fishing parties out so is one of the few people still using much fuel. He said that so few people are buying fuel that lots of people are getting poor fuel because the long hoses are sitting out in the sun for much longer periods. *The fuel polisher in Portland evidently is no longer in business this year. Yup, the higher hose temps are good breeding grounds for those fungals that thrive in #2. Those 'filters' on the delivery hoses do nothing to stop the 'spores' and 'buds' of the fungals/bacteria. The filters there are mostly for 'rocks, sticks and feathers'. If possible, I only buy fuel from a marina as the very last resort; Id rather 'jug it' from a truck stop as the chances of fresh uncontaminated fuel is much much less. :-) |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
On 2008-08-11 06:17:56 -0400, "Roger Long" said:
"RichH" wrote A furler usually cannot tolerate heavy luff loads, as would be necessary to change the luff entry shape (the 'forward curve shape' at the luff) of a jib/genoa; crank on luff tension to a furler with a halyard and to *Jam*. ..... probably the prime reason that you'll never ever see a genoa/jib furler on a serious racing boat. This somewhat depends on halyard geometry. You see some setups where the halyard leads at an angle from the foil. This is good for minimizing halyard wraps but pulls the end of the foil against the stay. Oh, good point! I forgot another reason I love the CDI: The halyard is internal to the luff, so no possibility of halyard wrap. The luff tension is controlled at the foot, with about 6:1 leverage from the multiple loops of light line and gravity helping rather than hurting. It's real easy to over-tension the luff with a CDI, particularly as the halyard is wire. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
headsail furlers -the good, the bad and the ugly...sound off!
In article ,
Dave wrote: On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:51:51 -0700 (PDT), RichH said: A headsail on a 'furler' can only be reduced by 30% SA and still retain any good shape. Beyond 30% reduction and you wind up with a 'BAG" shape instead of a usable sail shape for any 'upwind' work. 135 X .70 = 95% So, you can reduce a 135 down to a 'working jib' (100%) size without shape problems. A 150 can usually only be reduced to a 105, et That's consistent with what I've experienced. I generally end up taking a second reef in the main before rolling any of the 150 in. Doesn't that give you a fairly unbalanced helm? That's a lot of CE forward. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:32 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com