Bob wrote:
...Old fat ****s and people without a clue have no business off shore.

As far as people without a clue, I tend to agree with you though on the
other hand, I think that people have a right to commit suicide any way
they choose as long as they don't activate their EPIRB and risk other
people's lives in doing so.

However, as an old fat ****, myself, I disagree with that part of your
statement. My wife and I have made 3 ocean crossings of 20-30 days each
as well as numerous shorter passages, logging something like 30,000 nm
on our boats. Further, we'll be back out there again as soon as family
matters permit. Since we've got hank on sails, we've done our share of
sail changes out there on the end of a bouncing bowsprit and all the
other tasks the cruising life includes.

Cruising is not an aerobic activity. Prior planning, common sense, a
knack for fixing things and a willingness to do whatever it takes at
times are far more useful than the ability to "run 2 miles in 12 min, do
50 crunches, lift 80 lbs to yor chest 30 times in 3 min. etc". If you
don't understand this then I submit that I am probably far safer out
there than you are.

My days of physical prowess are behind me, but I've still got a lot of
years of great cruising ahead of me. It may take me a little longer to
get to the top of my mast or to haul my anchor with my manual windless
than you, but it's not a race.

Hopefully, someday we'll find ourselves in the same anchorage and we can
meet face to face and enjoy a sunset and some sushi together.

--
Dan Best - (559) 970-9858, Fresno, CA 93704
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://triciajean192.home.comcast.net

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:47:17 -0700, Dan Best
wrote:



Hopefully, someday we'll find ourselves in the same anchorage and we can
meet face to face and enjoy a sunset and some sushi together.

I was with you until you said "sushi."

--Vic

I see you use a portabote as a dinghy. What are your thoughts on it?
Thanks
Gordon

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:09:32 +0000, Larry wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in
:

The paper reports that it was the
third time he had required assistance in 36 hours so I don't feel
quite so bad about checking him out. If the USCG didn't notice
something wrong the first two times, I probably wouldn't have been
able to justify getting them involved just by making a close pass.



CG screwed up. They should have confiscated his boat on the 2ND call and
put him before a judge to have his competency tested by a shrink.

Of course, we COULD have some SANE laws that says NOONE OVER 60 SAILS
ALONE......which is fairly obvious, but we'd rather risk CG sailor's lives
than screw with the elite's right to be stupid.

I'm 62. I don't give a **** how "fit" a 60-year-old is, in his
mind....Jack La Lane shouldn't be out sailing alone over 60....maybe over
50!


Larry, sorry I can't agree. when I lived in Maine I met a lobsterman -
81 years old and still fishing every day except Sunday. Had you told
Capt. Carter he was too old to fish he'd have laughed at you.

I also knew an 80-something old cruiser who sailed back from Asia the
hard way - head north to Japan and turn right.

Equating age and ability is probably only accurate if you talk about
solely physical attributes. Which sailing hardly requires.

What you don't need is more laws.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Larry, sorry I can't agree. when I lived in Maine I met a lobsterman -
81 years old and still fishing every day except Sunday. Had you told
Capt. Carter he was too old to fish he'd have laughed at you.


All these examples are quite admirable, but are the exceptions, not the old
goats walking the docks at your local marinas....to the peril of those who
must come retrieve them, exhausted and infirmed and unable to continue...or
worse....in that storm offshore when they've just pushed it too far one
more time.

We don't allow the blind to drive a car down the Interstate.....

Why do we allow the blind to drive a massive boat, just because he can
afford it?

I know some really nice people who have no business leaving the docks.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Larry, sorry I can't agree. when I lived in Maine I met a lobsterman -
81 years old and still fishing every day except Sunday. Had you told
Capt. Carter he was too old to fish he'd have laughed at you.


All these examples are quite admirable, but are the exceptions, not the
old
goats walking the docks at your local marinas....to the peril of those who
must come retrieve them, exhausted and infirmed and unable to
continue...or
worse....in that storm offshore when they've just pushed it too far one
more time.

We don't allow the blind to drive a car down the Interstate.....

Why do we allow the blind to drive a massive boat, just because he can
afford it?

I know some really nice people who have no business leaving the docks.



We allow disabled people who can't get a regular drivers license to drive
big rigs....


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 05:13:26 +0000, Larry wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Larry, sorry I can't agree. when I lived in Maine I met a lobsterman -
81 years old and still fishing every day except Sunday. Had you told
Capt. Carter he was too old to fish he'd have laughed at you.


All these examples are quite admirable, but are the exceptions, not the old
goats walking the docks at your local marinas....to the peril of those who
must come retrieve them, exhausted and infirmed and unable to continue...or
worse....in that storm offshore when they've just pushed it too far one
more time.

We don't allow the blind to drive a car down the Interstate.....

Why do we allow the blind to drive a massive boat, just because he can
afford it?

I know some really nice people who have no business leaving the docks.

The point is that a blanket condemnation is not accurate. To true that
there are incompetents running boats who shouldn't but equally true is
that there are competent individuals, of the same age, doing the same
thing.

Heck, from your sea stories you must be approaching the magic age. If
you are going to get all brown and wizened and turn useless at 60 then
how about sending me your dual trace scope. And, I'll take the old
Mercedes Diesel too.... do try to get it overhauled though, before you
pass the old fellow's mark.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 05:13:26 +0000, Larry wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Larry, sorry I can't agree. when I lived in Maine I met a lobsterman -
81 years old and still fishing every day except Sunday. Had you told
Capt. Carter he was too old to fish he'd have laughed at you.


All these examples are quite admirable, but are the exceptions, not the old
goats walking the docks at your local marinas....to the peril of those who
must come retrieve them, exhausted and infirmed and unable to continue...or
worse....in that storm offshore when they've just pushed it too far one
more time.

We don't allow the blind to drive a car down the Interstate.....

Why do we allow the blind to drive a massive boat, just because he can
afford it?

I know some really nice people who have no business leaving the docks.

The point is that a blanket condemnation is not accurate. To true that
there are incompetents running boats who shouldn't but equally true is
that there are competent individuals, of the same age, doing the same
thing.

Heck, from your sea stories you must be approaching the magic age. If
you are going to get all brown and wizened and turn useless at 60 then
how about sending me your dual trace scope. And, I'll take the old
Mercedes Diesel too.... do try to get it overhauled though, before you
pass the old fellow's mark.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 15:09:32 +0000, Larry wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in
:

The paper reports that it was the
third time he had required assistance in 36 hours so I don't feel
quite so bad about checking him out. If the USCG didn't notice
something wrong the first two times, I probably wouldn't have been
able to justify getting them involved just by making a close pass.



CG screwed up. They should have confiscated his boat on the 2ND call and
put him before a judge to have his competency tested by a shrink.

Of course, we COULD have some SANE laws that says NOONE OVER 60 SAILS
ALONE......which is fairly obvious, but we'd rather risk CG sailor's lives
than screw with the elite's right to be stupid.

I'm 62. I don't give a **** how "fit" a 60-year-old is, in his
mind....Jack La Lane shouldn't be out sailing alone over 60....maybe over
50!

Hey Larry,
I'm 60. I don't file a voyage plan; I don't tell anyone when to expect
me; I don't expect to get any help if I have a heart attack or similar
and so far I have managed to solve all my difficulties myself.

I do have heath checkups before I leave but fully accept that I may
die of the unpredictable.

I for one would resent any law you suggest. Last night I had dinner
with a 46 year old friend who had a heart attack, though outwardly
healthy looking, at age 42.

I shall continue to sail alone until, or if, I find someone compatible
to sail with.

If you prevent me from doing so I shall likely morph into another
Wilbur and plague your houses via this newsgroup.

regards
Peter

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:35:49 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

With all the armchair sailors here criticizing people who are actually out
sailing around in their boats, I think I'll take time for an account of a
sailor who is, or was, a real hazard to himself. I'm also doing some soul
searching about it.

I sailed my son around the Cape on Wednesday to drop him off for a hike
back
through the towns' greenbelt trails. As we were leaving, we passed a
fairly
competent looking double ender that was remarkable for jogging along under
only a half luffing staysail. I figured he was just getting started and
organized. The boat appeared well equipped and there was just one person
on
deck.

On my return, I saw the boat again, still jogging along at about 1 knot
under just the staysail which appeared to be sheeted way too far aft so
that
the foot was tight and the top half flogging. The boat had just crossed a
long dangerous ledge without running aground. It's a short cut I often
take
but I know the waters and I don't do it when there is a sea running like
there was on Wednesday.

I thought briefly of going over to take a look but he was past the danger
and the occasional large seas breaking nearby certainly would have clued
him
into not returning that way. It was one of those days that looks nasty but
generally doesn't have much wind. I decided he was just taking it easy and
enjoying the view. You could spend all afternoon sitting on a porch
watching
the ocean so why not just jog along the coast at 1 knot if you felt lazy?
I
also wanted to be home when my son returned and had another home alone.

This morning, I read in the paper that a disoriented sailor was brought in
by the Coast Guard about 25 miles south the next day. I did some checking
and it was the same boat with the sole POB suffering the effects of
diabetes. He's home now and the boat is safe. He had been out in the heavy
rain and weather that brought a rare tornado watch to Maine.

I'm kicking myself now because, thinking back on how the boat was being
sailed, I'm sure he was impaired at the time I saw him and I probably
could
have detected it if I'd gone over to check him out or tried to raise him
on
the radio. It never occurred to me though that he might actually be trying
to go somewhere instead of just being out for a slow daysail. If he had
come
to grief, I would be pretty torn up about it today.

OTOH how often is there any upside to hailing someone by voice or radio
and
pointing out that they are sailing like a bozo and are they all right? I
learned later that he was swearing on the radio at some charter fishing
boats that inquired about him and that this behavior played a part in
instigating the SAR which involved both boats and aircraft.

Next time I see something like this, I'm sure I'll take a closer look but
I'm
still not sure of the best way to handle it. It's a miracle that he made
it
past the ledges off the cape and as far as he did.

Thankfully, the Charter Fishing boat realized that the response itself
indicated something was not right and they followed through by
notifying the proper authorities. That was a proper way to handle it.

I've occasionally seen a boat that appears to be somewhat
uncontrolled. Things such as a Genoa flogging badly for more than a
short interval with no apparent effort to trim it. I usually just
keep an eye on them, and if things still look amiss 10 minutes later,
I go closer and observe whatever activity I can.

A few times that has prompted me to go even closer and hail them. I
don't tell them they are sailing like a Bozo. I just ask if they need
any assistance. Most will automaticaly say they are okay, but you can
usually tell if they really are by the tone of the response.

I once spent an afternoon coaching a couple who were sailing their
Catalina 27 for the first time. It was on a gusty spring day with a
bit of chop. They were having a lot of trouble because all previous
sailing experience had consisted of sailing on a rented Sunfish while
on vacation somewhere. They had motored out of the harbor and then
shut off the motor to raise the sails. Now they had fouled that up
pretty well, and wern't sure even how to undo what they had done and
restart the motor to chug home. Things jammed and tangled all over the
place. Half the problem was caused by panic. I was tempted to just tow
them in, but instead, calmed them down and got them more or less
straightened out. I still see them occasionally, and they have
improved considerably.

If they had rebuffed my help after the second offer, I would have
backed off, and just called it in to the CG. I was pretty sure they
were not going to get themselves out of trouble and home safely
without somebody getting involved.

I had a couple of similar situations on the bay out here... one was a Mac26
(no bashing intended), that seemed to be unable to sail in fairly heavy
weather. I got within shouting distance and offered to standby while they
moved to a bit more sheltered area. They got there, then reefed, which is
what they were trying to do in the higher wind. Finally saw them back on the
dock, and I gave the skipper a quick lesson in tying a cleat hitch.

Another was in the same basic area, but this time was a guy with his young
daughter. They were on some tiny something or other, and they seemed to be
unable to keep the boat up long enough to get going. This was right in the
middle of a fairly high traffic area. We asked if they needed help, and he
said no, but we stood upwind of them anyway. I think we gave them enough of
a wind block, since they were able to get it going on the next try. She
looked fine, but he was starting to get that pre-exhausted look. They
immediately headed into a more protected area.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com