New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear this
could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the water
altogether.
On September 30th, the EPA is scheduled to begin court-ordered enforcement
of the Clean Water Act that controls all water discharged from boats during
its normal operation. Recreational boaters had been exempt from it for 34
years because it was meant for large, ocean-going ships.

Now, to comply with the law, the EPA has proposed permits for boaters; the
permits are free and automatic. The EPA says boaters will be required to
take "simple steps" to control water discharge from their boats, but didn't
give me any details about how to do that.

"claus" wrote in message
. ..
New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the water
altogether.
On September 30th, the EPA is scheduled to begin court-ordered enforcement
of the Clean Water Act that controls all water discharged from boats
during its normal operation. Recreational boaters had been exempt from it
for 34 years because it was meant for large, ocean-going ships.

Now, to comply with the law, the EPA has proposed permits for boaters; the
permits are free and automatic. The EPA says boaters will be required to
take "simple steps" to control water discharge from their boats, but
didn't give me any details about how to do that.

For more info, click this link:
http://www.boatus.com/gov/documents/EPAPERMIT.pdf

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:32:09 -0700, "claus" said:

New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the
water
altogether.

BoatUS is playing it for all the PR it's worth, but anyone with modest
ability to read and think should realize that what the EPA has done by
providing "automatic" and free licenses is to abolish any requirement for
a
license for vessels under 79 feet.

Not necessarily so. One can just as well read it as these "automatic and
free licenses" still carry certain obligations. The question is can one
REJECT these licenses and remain unencumbered?

Or better yet does the license have standing if it is automatic and free?

Wilbur Hubbard

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:32:09 -0700, "claus" said:

New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the
water
altogether.

BoatUS is playing it for all the PR it's worth, but anyone with modest
ability to read and think should realize that what the EPA has done by
providing "automatic" and free licenses is to abolish any requirement for
a
license for vessels under 79 feet.


It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what the
Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can enforce
them.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote

It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what the
Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can enforce
them.


You've hit the nail on the head. That is exactly where we are headed. A
police state is one where anyone in a uniform can pull you in on a whim any
time they feel like it. That can't be done here because we have this thing
called a constitution. However, if you can get the public to accept all
sorts of laws on the "Oh, they'll never bother enforcing that." basis, then
the police can invoke them any time.

Boaters are gradually making some progress in the anchoring battle that has
been going on in Florida for years. What do you think the towns and police
will do when they figure out that they have these EPA permit regulations to
work with?

0400 There is the clomping of heavy boots on your deck. "It's been
reported that a water discharge was seen coming from your boat. We're here
to inspect your dish detergent and piping system. Ah, we see that you are
using Joy instead of the best available non-phosphate brand. You've been
anchored here two weeks. Your fine will be $384,000. Your EPA permit is now
revoked and we are towing your boat to the nearest shipyard to be removed
from the water."

Nobody is going to enforce this stuff because they give a **** about water
quality. It will be used like a lot of laws to pursue other agendas. It
won't happen often and it won't be a significant risk to any individual
boater, probably less than the hazards we routinely accept. But, doesn't it
disturb people here to see this nation which is creating so much death and
suffering in the name of "freedom" going down this path? This EPA stuff is
just one example.

--
Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Capt. JG" wrote

It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what
the Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can
enforce them.


You've hit the nail on the head. That is exactly where we are headed. A
police state is one where anyone in a uniform can pull you in on a whim
any time they feel like it. That can't be done here because we have this
thing called a constitution. However, if you can get the public to accept
all sorts of laws on the "Oh, they'll never bother enforcing that." basis,
then the police can invoke them any time.

Boaters are gradually making some progress in the anchoring battle that
has been going on in Florida for years. What do you think the towns and
police will do when they figure out that they have these EPA permit
regulations to work with?

0400 There is the clomping of heavy boots on your deck. "It's been
reported that a water discharge was seen coming from your boat. We're
here to inspect your dish detergent and piping system. Ah, we see that
you are using Joy instead of the best available non-phosphate brand.
You've been anchored here two weeks. Your fine will be $384,000. Your EPA
permit is now revoked and we are towing your boat to the nearest shipyard
to be removed from the water."

Nobody is going to enforce this stuff because they give a **** about water
quality. It will be used like a lot of laws to pursue other agendas. It
won't happen often and it won't be a significant risk to any individual
boater, probably less than the hazards we routinely accept. But, doesn't
it disturb people here to see this nation which is creating so much death
and suffering in the name of "freedom" going down this path? This EPA
stuff is just one example.

--
Roger Long



Law abiding citizens have nothing to fear. Can I see your free speech
permit?

Nobody is going to enforce this stuff because they give a **** about water
quality. It will be used like a lot of laws to pursue other agendas. It
won't happen often and it won't be a significant risk to any individual
boater, probably less than the hazards we routinely accept. But, doesn't
it disturb people here to see this nation which is creating so much death
and suffering in the name of "freedom" going down this path? This EPA
stuff is just one example.

--
Roger Long



Law abiding citizens have nothing to fear. Can I see your free speech
permit?


The USA is not the only country to have freedom of speech enshrined in
legislation. The 3 million people of the city state of Singapore also
have it.

There is one place where one can see it in action - Speaker's corner
in a public park. Any citizen can obtain a permit to speak on any
topic provided his written speech is submitted to authorities and
approval as to the content authorised beforehand.

A past leader of the opposition party was imprisoned for speaking
without a permit.

Peter.

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Capt. JG" wrote

It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what
the Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can
enforce them.


You've hit the nail on the head. That is exactly where we are headed. A
police state is one where anyone in a uniform can pull you in on a whim
any time they feel like it. That can't be done here because we have this
thing called a constitution. However, if you can get the public to accept
all sorts of laws on the "Oh, they'll never bother enforcing that." basis,
then the police can invoke them any time.

Boaters are gradually making some progress in the anchoring battle that
has been going on in Florida for years. What do you think the towns and
police will do when they figure out that they have these EPA permit
regulations to work with?

0400 There is the clomping of heavy boots on your deck. "It's been
reported that a water discharge was seen coming from your boat. We're
here to inspect your dish detergent and piping system. Ah, we see that
you are using Joy instead of the best available non-phosphate brand.
You've been anchored here two weeks. Your fine will be $384,000. Your EPA
permit is now revoked and we are towing your boat to the nearest shipyard
to be removed from the water."

Nobody is going to enforce this stuff because they give a **** about water
quality. It will be used like a lot of laws to pursue other agendas. It
won't happen often and it won't be a significant risk to any individual
boater, probably less than the hazards we routinely accept. But, doesn't
it disturb people here to see this nation which is creating so much death
and suffering in the name of "freedom" going down this path? This EPA
stuff is just one example.

--
Roger Long

I think we're a ways off from this, but it's a slippery slope. People tend
to think, for example, that scum like terrorists should be hanged
immediately or held indefinitely without a trial (e.g., gitmo), but this is
the precipice of a very slippery slope that may start with good intentions
and ends with jackboots.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article lutions,
"Capt. JG" wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:32:09 -0700, "claus" said:

New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the
water
altogether.

BoatUS is playing it for all the PR it's worth, but anyone with modest
ability to read and think should realize that what the EPA has done by
providing "automatic" and free licenses is to abolish any requirement for
a
license for vessels under 79 feet.


It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what the
Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can enforce
them.

'Not knowing the laws is no excuse for violating them'

LOL

--
Molesworth

"Molesworth" wrote in message
...
In article lutions,
"Capt. JG" wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:32:09 -0700, "claus"
said:

New EPA water permit regulations are on the horizon. Some boaters
fear
this could cause them to sink or simply take their boats out of the
water
altogether.

BoatUS is playing it for all the PR it's worth, but anyone with modest
ability to read and think should realize that what the EPA has done by
providing "automatic" and free licenses is to abolish any requirement
for
a
license for vessels under 79 feet.


It's an interesting situation, and unfortunately it reminds me of what
the
Chinese gov't does. It has lots of laws on the books that it doesn't
generally enforce, but they're there, and when they like, they can
enforce
them.

'Not knowing the laws is no excuse for violating them'

LOL

--
Molesworth


Almost funny, but not quite...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com