I intend on sailing from the British Virgin Islands to Brest, France
June 1st. How long the boat stays over there will depend in part on
how long the EU allows forign vessels to stay in their waters. Any
one know how long a boat can stay before one gets booted out or
charged some fee?

Vince

"Vince LoRusso" wrote in message
om...
I intend on sailing from the British Virgin Islands to Brest, France
June 1st. How long the boat stays over there will depend in part on
how long the EU allows forign vessels to stay in their waters. Any
one know how long a boat can stay before one gets booted out or
charged some fee?

Vince

18 months is the current limit I think.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

"Vince LoRusso" wrote in message
om...
I intend on sailing from the British Virgin Islands to Brest, France
June 1st. How long the boat stays over there will depend in part on
how long the EU allows forign vessels to stay in their waters. Any
one know how long a boat can stay before one gets booted out or
charged some fee?

Vince

18 months is the current limit I think.


--
Evan Gatehouse

you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me
ceilydh AT 3web dot net
(fools the spammers)

I had my sailboat in France and Spain a few years ago. I never heard
of a "cruising permit." It must be something new. I found
immigration and customs incredibly easy. I even had a pistol aboard.
I showed them that I kept it under lock and key and they didn't even
raise an eyebrow.

As for charging you, well that's another story. Many of the small
ports in the Ballearic (sp) islands are controlled by local officials
who insist you tie up at the municipal docks (which is usually just a
wall where you dock "Med" style). They were getting a handsome price
for this and would not even allow you to anchor until all their spaces
were filled. Almost every port had a different shore-power hookup and
often you had to chase down an elec. supply store to purchase the
appropriate connector. There was usually about one water hose for
each 50 boats which meant it could be a two-to-three-day wait to get a
little water. For this they were charging up to $100.00 U.S.
equivalent per day for a 41 ft. sailboat. I had initially planned on
keeping the boat in the Med for three or four years but when, in
France, the cheapest place I could find to put my boat on the hard
wanted $9000.00 for Sept. thru June I just said the hell with it and
had my boat shipped back. However, I will admit that there was a
network of round-the-worlders there who had a net going and knew how
to cut corners on everything. I would strongly recommend tying into
that net which operated on SSB and ham radio.

The water was beautiful and clear for the most part though there were
precious little fish to be seen. There were Jongerts and Pirini Navis
and Swans everywhere--not to mention loads of mega yachts. European
boaters never seemed to be hurting for funds. Outside of Monaco and
Cap d'Antibes the French had some more modest sailboats. I was
surprised to note that the French didn't seem to take very good care
of their boats--apart from the luxury SVs which usually had a crew
taking care of them.

There were thieves everywhere. They would steal your boat shoes right
off the dock. Even heard about people losing anchors. The French
said it was the "Arabs" doing it. Who knows? I talked to other
people who had spent time in North African ports and said they had
nothing taken.

Almost everyone told me to avoid Corsica because of political problems
the French were having and because of prices there which apparently
were even higher than Spain and the rest of France.

Look out for the mistrals. I experienced three days of steady 45 kt.
winds going from Majorca to France. Strange phenomenon. These winds
were not accompanied by a barometric change. They just started
blowing in the middle of the night and did not abate for 72 hours.
They build up a short, choppy sea. There are probably others who have
a better understanding of the phenomenon. I think it has something to
do with the wind being funneled down the Rhone valley but I could be
mistaken.

Looks like you are taking advantage of the "window" for your eastward
crossing. Good luck. Hope some of my info is helpful to you.

Joe

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:53:30 -0700, "Evan Gatehouse"
wrote:


"Vince LoRusso" wrote in message
. com...
I intend on sailing from the British Virgin Islands to Brest, France
June 1st. How long the boat stays over there will depend in part on
how long the EU allows forign vessels to stay in their waters. Any
one know how long a boat can stay before one gets booted out or
charged some fee?

Vince

18 months is the current limit I think.

I had my sailboat in France and Spain a few years ago. I never heard
of a "cruising permit." It must be something new. I found
immigration and customs incredibly easy. I even had a pistol aboard.
I showed them that I kept it under lock and key and they didn't even
raise an eyebrow.

As for charging you, well that's another story. Many of the small
ports in the Ballearic (sp) islands are controlled by local officials
who insist you tie up at the municipal docks (which is usually just a
wall where you dock "Med" style). They were getting a handsome price
for this and would not even allow you to anchor until all their spaces
were filled. Almost every port had a different shore-power hookup and
often you had to chase down an elec. supply store to purchase the
appropriate connector. There was usually about one water hose for
each 50 boats which meant it could be a two-to-three-day wait to get a
little water. For this they were charging up to $100.00 U.S.
equivalent per day for a 41 ft. sailboat. I had initially planned on
keeping the boat in the Med for three or four years but when, in
France, the cheapest place I could find to put my boat on the hard
wanted $9000.00 for Sept. thru June I just said the hell with it and
had my boat shipped back. However, I will admit that there was a
network of round-the-worlders there who had a net going and knew how
to cut corners on everything. I would strongly recommend tying into
that net which operated on SSB and ham radio.

The water was beautiful and clear for the most part though there were
precious little fish to be seen. There were Jongerts and Pirini Navis
and Swans everywhere--not to mention loads of mega yachts. European
boaters never seemed to be hurting for funds. Outside of Monaco and
Cap d'Antibes the French had some more modest sailboats. I was
surprised to note that the French didn't seem to take very good care
of their boats--apart from the luxury SVs which usually had a crew
taking care of them.

There were thieves everywhere. They would steal your boat shoes right
off the dock. Even heard about people losing anchors. The French
said it was the "Arabs" doing it. Who knows? I talked to other
people who had spent time in North African ports and said they had
nothing taken.

Almost everyone told me to avoid Corsica because of political problems
the French were having and because of prices there which apparently
were even higher than Spain and the rest of France.

Look out for the mistrals. I experienced three days of steady 45 kt.
winds going from Majorca to France. Strange phenomenon. These winds
were not accompanied by a barometric change. They just started
blowing in the middle of the night and did not abate for 72 hours.
They build up a short, choppy sea. There are probably others who have
a better understanding of the phenomenon. I think it has something to
do with the wind being funneled down the Rhone valley but I could be
mistaken.

Looks like you are taking advantage of the "window" for your eastward
crossing. Good luck. Hope some of my info is helpful to you.

Joe

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:53:30 -0700, "Evan Gatehouse"
wrote:


"Vince LoRusso" wrote in message
. com...
I intend on sailing from the British Virgin Islands to Brest, France
June 1st. How long the boat stays over there will depend in part on
how long the EU allows forign vessels to stay in their waters. Any
one know how long a boat can stay before one gets booted out or
charged some fee?

Vince

18 months is the current limit I think.

Vince LoRusso wrote in message
om...
I intend on sailing from the British Virgin Islands to Brest,
France
June 1st. How long the boat stays over there will depend in
part on
how long the EU allows forign vessels to stay in their waters.
Any
one know how long a boat can stay before one gets booted out or
charged some fee?

The general rule in the EU is that a non-EU boat may stay for up
to 6 months without having to pay a tax or formally import the
boat. Additionally, most EU countries allow a vessel to lay up
for an additional six months without the tax becoming due. The
typical wording is 'the vessel may be sailed in EU waters for not
more than 6 months in 12', but the way this is applied does vary
from country to country. The tax in question is value added tax -
(VAT, TVA, many different initials in different states) - charged
at 12 to 20% (depending which country you're in) of what customs
think your boat is worth. They know the market.

It is easy to remain in European waters for extended periods
without becoming liable to this tax if you sail the boat to a
non-EU country for a period, have this documented, then re-enter
the EU at some later date. Stay for longer than a year, and
they'll deem your boat as 'imported' , and the tax becomes due.
Exceptional extensions are possible when the boat is laid up
ashore 'in bond' in some countries.

The system is policed in most (not all) countries by issuing
'cruise permits', which can be checked from time to time by
relevant authorities. As you move from country to country in the
EU, as a non-EU boat you should check out/check in to each
country by visiting the port authorities and immigration at a
'port of entry' with all your yacht papers and crew lists, flying
the 'Q' flag on arrival. This is easy to handle, usually a lot
less bother than sailing through the various Caribbean islands!

If you're caught breaking these rules, some countries can levy
pretty heavy fines. Whatever you do, don't be caught with paying
guests aboard, and don't charter, since either would immediately
make you liable to tax, fines etc. Many EU countries police this
by only allowing the boat to be sailed when the owner (as on the
registration certificate) is aboard.

Individual countries may charge non-EU boats a 'circulation' tax.
This is usually a small amount, well below mooring fees.

I don't know the size of your boat, but assuming 12 metres,
typical dock fees vary widely. Expensive spots are S England, S
France, S Spain and Italy, at around $6,000 a year or $30-$40 a
night for a berth in a leisure marina. N France, N Spain and
Scotland and Ireland are about half this. In commercial harbours,
fishing harbours, alongside old quays and anchoring (away from S
England) the fees are small or nothing. I'm currently paying
$2000 a year in Kalamata, Greece, which is a very cheap cruising
ground.

Nowhere in Europe is as dangerous or as liable to theft as some
of the Caribbean islands (St Vincent & St Lucia come to mind) but
within Europe, some of the crowded Italian, S France and S Spain
ports have a bit of a bad name for opportunity theft from empty,
open boats. Occupied boats are safe. Except around Athens, Greece
is exceptionally safe, with few people bothering to lock their
empty boats (or even houses!).

Hope this helps! I'm off to Greece in a couple of days and away
from the net, so I may not be able to follow up further
enquiries.

JimB, Yacht Rapaz.

..

Vince LoRusso wrote in message
om...
I intend on sailing from the British Virgin Islands to Brest,
France
June 1st. How long the boat stays over there will depend in
part on
how long the EU allows forign vessels to stay in their waters.
Any
one know how long a boat can stay before one gets booted out or
charged some fee?

The general rule in the EU is that a non-EU boat may stay for up
to 6 months without having to pay a tax or formally import the
boat. Additionally, most EU countries allow a vessel to lay up
for an additional six months without the tax becoming due. The
typical wording is 'the vessel may be sailed in EU waters for not
more than 6 months in 12', but the way this is applied does vary
from country to country. The tax in question is value added tax -
(VAT, TVA, many different initials in different states) - charged
at 12 to 20% (depending which country you're in) of what customs
think your boat is worth. They know the market.

It is easy to remain in European waters for extended periods
without becoming liable to this tax if you sail the boat to a
non-EU country for a period, have this documented, then re-enter
the EU at some later date. Stay for longer than a year, and
they'll deem your boat as 'imported' , and the tax becomes due.
Exceptional extensions are possible when the boat is laid up
ashore 'in bond' in some countries.

The system is policed in most (not all) countries by issuing
'cruise permits', which can be checked from time to time by
relevant authorities. As you move from country to country in the
EU, as a non-EU boat you should check out/check in to each
country by visiting the port authorities and immigration at a
'port of entry' with all your yacht papers and crew lists, flying
the 'Q' flag on arrival. This is easy to handle, usually a lot
less bother than sailing through the various Caribbean islands!

If you're caught breaking these rules, some countries can levy
pretty heavy fines. Whatever you do, don't be caught with paying
guests aboard, and don't charter, since either would immediately
make you liable to tax, fines etc. Many EU countries police this
by only allowing the boat to be sailed when the owner (as on the
registration certificate) is aboard.

Individual countries may charge non-EU boats a 'circulation' tax.
This is usually a small amount, well below mooring fees.

I don't know the size of your boat, but assuming 12 metres,
typical dock fees vary widely. Expensive spots are S England, S
France, S Spain and Italy, at around $6,000 a year or $30-$40 a
night for a berth in a leisure marina. N France, N Spain and
Scotland and Ireland are about half this. In commercial harbours,
fishing harbours, alongside old quays and anchoring (away from S
England) the fees are small or nothing. I'm currently paying
$2000 a year in Kalamata, Greece, which is a very cheap cruising
ground.

Nowhere in Europe is as dangerous or as liable to theft as some
of the Caribbean islands (St Vincent & St Lucia come to mind) but
within Europe, some of the crowded Italian, S France and S Spain
ports have a bit of a bad name for opportunity theft from empty,
open boats. Occupied boats are safe. Except around Athens, Greece
is exceptionally safe, with few people bothering to lock their
empty boats (or even houses!).

Hope this helps! I'm off to Greece in a couple of days and away
from the net, so I may not be able to follow up further
enquiries.

JimB, Yacht Rapaz.

..

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:00:13 -0400, nospam wrote:


I had my sailboat in France and Spain a few years ago. I never heard
of a "cruising permit." It must be something new. I found
immigration and customs incredibly easy. I even had a pistol aboard.

Would not recommend to have a gun these days unless you have a valid
permit (that is, valid in the country you are travelling to) !

Compared with the US, EU is not very liberal as far as guns are
concerned. You will be fined and have your gun confiscated.

Mike

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 22:00:13 -0400, nospam wrote:


I had my sailboat in France and Spain a few years ago. I never heard
of a "cruising permit." It must be something new. I found
immigration and customs incredibly easy. I even had a pistol aboard.

Would not recommend to have a gun these days unless you have a valid
permit (that is, valid in the country you are travelling to) !

Compared with the US, EU is not very liberal as far as guns are
concerned. You will be fined and have your gun confiscated.

Mike