On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 09:31:29 +0100, "Dennis Pogson"
wrote:


On the only-150-miles-from-the-sea thing, we all had a laugh this week when
an American Travel brochure, discussing Aviemore (in the Scottish
Highlands), stated that it was "quite close" to Tower Bridge, Buckingham
Palace, and the Houses of Parliament.

Aviemore is around 600 miles from all of these places, and with gas at
$10.38 a (British) gallon, your tourists would find it an expensive trip in
their hired BMW!

Can't blame them for trying though! We need the tourists!


Dennis.


A mile is a very elastic thing in Britain, I find. The three last
miles to Shrewsbury for instance. That's a medieval town, enclosed
on three sides by a loop of the river Severn which guards the castle
and Abbey. It took me an hour plus to cover three miles (as the crow
flies) get to my destination, even using a (non-road-mapped) GPS,
because I missed my turn.

At one point, I found myself driving through an "allotment"
(a survival of the shared land ownership thing for town-dwellers)
ending up at the river bank - on the wrong side!

Brian W

"Road Rage!" wrote in message
...
This the Univ. of Chicago style of argument that has been shown over
and over to not work (if you're interested, there are lots of examples
out there, the justification for Iraq war included). Capitalism must be
moderated with a societal safety net in order to take full advantage of
its benefits. "Pure" capitalism doesn't work as advertised.

Where has it been shown not to work? Give one real example of a laissez
faire economy that demonstrated this over at least a two decade span.
Tell us what "working" is.

Well, sockpuppet, I suggest doing some reading. I'm sure you're head will
explode, but Naomi Klein wrote a very nice book about it... Disaster
Capitalism.

One problem with that book is that it fails to distinguish between
economic and political systems. Did you find that also?

My last response to you, then off to the bozo bin, so enjoy it while you
can.

Firstly, there is no distinction in the modern world. Secondly, it did quite
nicely, as best as she could IMHO.


Capitalism can have and has had private safety nets without government
intervention.

Can and does/have are two different things.

Yes they are. There were no government safety nets before 1900 in the US.
It was all private. Social inequality and suffering exploded when
government got involved in the charity industry. Such safety nets as the
"war on drugs", the "Great Society, the "New Deal" resulted in even
greater incarcerations for victimless crimes, increased poverty and crime.
The New Deal was the greatest environmental disaster the world has ever
seen.

The Great Society was, in a large measure, a success, and would have done
better had we not gotten so entrenched in Vietnam. Johnson, despite his many
faults, was succeeding with things like civil rights reform and a better
safety net. The New Deal has saved millions from untold suffering. Feel free
to disagree. The War on Drugs was not a safety net. It's a puritanical
program that the majority of the people think they support, when in fact,
it's a boondoggle.



What is "pure" capitalism and were has it existed?

Unfettered capitalism. No gov't rules/regs. It hasn't existed, but it's
been attempted.

The lack of a government is needed for unfettered capitalism. Under
unfettered capitalism there would be no war, taxes pay for war. The
existence of government is why unfettered capitalism will never exist.


Yes. The first sentence is true. The second sentence indicates to me that
you don't know much about economics, and implementing this brings us to
systems such as Russia's oligarchy. Anyone seriously advocating no gov't
either isn't thinking clearly or is delusional... well, unless you're John
Lennon.

Chile comes to mind under that paragon of humanity Pinochete. Even he
couldn't do it, although he tried.

Nice slam. Why not bring up FDR and the internment camps or Truman and the
nuking of Japan and innocent people as examples of the outcome of
capaitalism when controlled by the left?

Not a slam, but a fact on the ground. Not sure what the interment camps have
to do with capitalism, but it sure sounded nice. Truman... left??? You sound
like a right-wingnut... LOL


What schools of economic thought preceded the "University of Chicago"
style of argument on which the U of C arguments are based?

Keynesian... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

Vs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Friedman


Clueless! Go back a few hundred years:

Ah, so we're supposed to model our society from the middle ages. Why not
just follow bin laden. Much easier and he's a bit more contemporary, since
he uses capitalistic societies to do his bidding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Bastiat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hayek

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_smith

Did your head explode yet?

Clearly yours is about to!


The thing you fail to realize is that there is only one economic system.
What exists in the world today are distortions of that system by political
systems and they will all fail, some will take longer than others.
Politicization of the economic system will eventually end it. Politics in
science is no longer science, politics in education becomes
indoctrination, politics in social systems increases misery, politics in
anything destroys it.


Yes, money is money. We get it. The rest is a rationalization for the
f*ck-everyone-else mentality.

So why do so many look to politicians and lawyers to solve society's ills?
Especially since politicians and lawyers are held in such low regard?

Because they're not willing to get involved and solve them. But, that's my
opinion.

Vote for McCain! Another four more years!


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
The War on Drugs was not a safety net. It's a puritanical program that the
majority of the people think they support, when in fact, it's a
boondoggle.

One would expect an admitted illegal recreational drug abuser to have such
an opinion.

Yes, money is money. We get it. The rest is a rationalization for the
f*ck-everyone-else mentality.

Isn't that exactly the attitude you adhere to when raising your hand and
flipping off the laws of the society you claim to support when you
admittedly break the law and flaunt your breaking of the law in public as in
your many posts about your using illegal drugs?

There is one thing liberals like you are always consistent about - you are
consistently hypocrites.

--
Gregory Hall

On Jun 6, 4:48*am, "Roger Long" wrote:
"Dennis Pogson" wrote



Is this another case of the CG simply taking the view that "it's only
$300,000, let the insurers pick up the tab"?

Now that the CG is nearly as overstretched and underfunded as the rest of
the military, and deprived of proper equipment by the the hidiously corrupt
supply contractor / procurement system that sees everything as a money
siphon from the taxpayers and cares not one whit for the safety or security
of the nation, they have not unreasonably adopted an unwritten policy that
their job is to save people; not toys.

Sad state of affairs indeed with the Deepwater rip-off. How many
millions were wasted on the buckling boats? Causing a ahortage of
cutter all around the USA. No doubt costing many many tax paying
mariners thier vessels and lives.

I did hear they just took delivery of a new 400 + ft high endurance
cutter. They will use it tracking drug runners most likely and forget
about American mariners.


*After all, there is only so much
they can do.

You bet, and with fuel now 4 bucks a gallon you should never expect a
tow unless your close by and lucky.

*If I were out there risking my life on an aging cutter or
aircraft looking at a toy boat owned by the kind of fat cat that deprived me
of the proper equipment to do my job and keep me safe to be alive to do it,
hell, I'd let the damn thing sink too.

I would not. Perhaps it's time to create a homeland Security Navy and
get the USCG back to helping American's in need.


*I know that not all, in fact very
few, sailors actually fit into this category but, if I were on of those
dedicated and courageous and dedicated people out there who had been waiting
for new equipment and had been following the Deepwater fiasco, it would be
an easy attitude to slip into.

Damn sure would be. But what a guys yacht compared to the 100 million
+ dollars put in the legacy cutters that are now heading to the scrap
pile? Or 112 million speny on a un-needed tilt roter UAV no one wants?
70 million for dock upgrades for the Eagle, 110 for the USDCG R&D
center ect.ect..ect... 24 Billion and only one cutter has hit the
seas,

Now the airforce just fired it's leaders over gross incompentancy I
think it's time to do the same in the USCG.

*It's also the only rational prioritization
response at the command structure level to the task / resources ratio forced
on them.

They can put fuel bills on credit cards and never pay the bills,
whats another couple 100 million in dept?

Why is it that the conservatives who get so worked up about private
lifestyle issues and taxes never seem to get very exercised about the
massive theft that is military procurement or the fact that the soldiers
they put "Support our Troops" bumper stickers on their cars about are in
Iraq without proper body armor or mine resistant vehicles? * More than
enough money to supply all that stuff disappeared into the companies run by
Cheney's chums. *Twice as much of our money was spent to give the USCG the
equipment they need and they didn't get so much as a usable RIB out of it.

The USCG has shifted to far from it mission to protect American
assets and lives.

The motto is to be always ready, well ask for a tow as see just how
ready they are.


People mindlessly repeat the propaganda they have been fed by talk radio
about the democrats social programs but, follow the money and where it has
actually been going. *It's been going everywhere but where it needs to go
and most of it ending up in China.

Bull, The Chinese could cut a 100 ft boat in half and add 23 ft
without totally ****ing up the boat so bad that it has to be scrapped.
They are so afraid of the boats they will not sell them surplus with
the defects for fear of lawsuits. **** even a stupid coon ass like Bob
with a pencil and napkin could draft up a better plan to alter a boat.

Fred



--
Roger Long

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 14:05:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

70 million for dock upgrades for the Eagle,

I would bet you could almost duplicate it for that kind of dough. It's
steel, not wood, nothing exotic and hard to work. Hitler lost his
school ship with a whole year worth of middies, and built three
replacements.
Horst Wessel, Leo Schlageter, and one more. Eagle is one of them, and
the others are still in use. Trivia note: Germany had a square rigged
raider, Seeadler, that took 18 prizes during WWI. That was cruising.
Seeadler Harbor in the Pacific named for her. Adler is German for
eagle, of course.

Casady

On 2008-06-07 14:18:39 -0400, "Gregory Hall" said:

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
The War on Drugs was not a safety net. It's a puritanical program that the
majority of the people think they support, when in fact, it's a
boondoggle.

One would expect an admitted illegal recreational drug abuser to have such
an opinion.

But some of us who don't partake feel the same.

The "war on drugs" is as misguided and destructive as prohibition was.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2008-06-06 15:01:43 -0400, "Capt. JG" said:

Hmm. You do realize you are mindlessly repeating propaganda you've been
fed by talk radio too, right?

Or, he's actually thinking. Either could be true. The right-wingnut talk
radio shows are fairly popular as well last I checked.

Surprisingly, it seems that *only* the right-wingnut talk shows are
interesting enough to survive.

The left-wingnut shows were so deadly dull boring.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2008-06-06 03:47:50 -0400, "Dennis Pogson"
said:

wrote:
http://www.hometownannapolis.com/cgi...8/06_03-29/TOP

Fred

Also a mystery is where all the water was coming from, unless the
rudder had actually broken off at the stock.

My "read" is that's what happened. A slight chance is that the broken
rudder punched a different hole in the hull, but it sounds like the
water was coming in at the rudder shaft's entry. That they were
swinging back and forth tells me they had no effective control over the
rudder. (We got towed in sans our rudder last season, a scary ride in
the 4' waves we had at the time.)

I'm a bit surprised that they couldn't put something in that hole to
slow the flow, but I can accept that it wasn't possible for some
reason, possibly because they seemed to do everything else pretty right.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:18:10 -0500, Brian Whatcott
wrote:
Then there were the radio marine gale forecasts - for
Malin, Hebrides, Bailey, Thames, Cromarty, Forth, Dogger Bank
Biscay, Dover, Lundy, The names allbecome familiar from long
repetition.

Enjoy!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ukweath...g_forecast.ram

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 23:15:18 +0100, Goofball_star_dot_etal
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:18:10 -0500, Brian Whatcott
wrote:
Then there were the radio marine gale forecasts - for
Malin, Hebrides, Bailey, Thames, Cromarty, Forth, Dogger Bank
Biscay, Dover, Lundy, The names allbecome familiar from long
repetition.

Enjoy!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ukweath...g_forecast.ram

Ah yes: I see that Dogger Bank is now Dogger, and there are a couple
of unfamilar locations - but still all of the old weather magic!

Brian W