I recently went sailing with a friend who has a 54' Swan. He's not very
electronic savy. At one point his wife was at the helm and asked me for
help interperting the display on the chartplotter. He had it set up for a
North-up display, and we were headed SW, which made the display confusing
for his wife. I switched it to heading-up and she immediately understood
what she was looking at. When the husband returned to the helm, he asked
me to switch it back.

Yesterday he stopped by the house and I questioned why he had the display
orientated that way. He said that

(1) He sails with two individuals who are in the CG, one of whom commands
an ice breaker. He claims that's the way that the CG operates all of their
displays, and if that's the way that the CG operates, there must be a
reason.

(2) He wants to keep his radar display and chartplotter synchronized, so
they're both in N-up mode.

(3) Some piece of navigation software that he runs on a PC down below only
does N-up, so he wants to keep them the same.

I argued that N-up isn't intuitive. It's fine for plotting courses, but
when I'm at the helm, I want the display to match what I'm seeing. It was
obvious from the reaction of his wife that she felt that heading-up was
more intuitive. I can't imagine that there's an issue with the radar (a
Furuno) as keeping that in N-up takes a lot computing power than heading-
up.

I also noted that when he was at the helm, that he kept scrolling the
display to see what was ahead of him as he rarely kept the boat centered on
the display. I explained that he could have the chartplotter position the
boat so that it was at the bottom 1/3 of the display and then would have
the top 2/3 of the dislay to show what was ahead. That didn't pulse him.

Personally I like to have my display in configured in course-up mode when
navigating to waypoints and in heading-up when I'm simply driving the boat.
I also configure it as described in the above paragraph to maximize my view
of what's ahead.

How do others have their displays configured? How does the CG have their's
configured? What's the purpose of N-up vs heading-up?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

I use both N-up and Heading-up. Heading up when the plotter is tuned
in tight for close range while navigating tricky passages. N-up when
zoomed out for a lay of the land. Both have their advantages for
me.

On a previous boat, we had an aft facing nav station. I found that my
brain took a little longer to process the picture on an aft facing
radar screen that a forward facing radar screen and my wife never was
able to make that transition. Having had that experience, I would
avoid an aft facing radar display installation on an future boats.

"Roger Long" wrote in
:

"Geoff Schultz" wrote

I argued that N-up isn't intuitive.

For me, I find it's exactly the opposite. When I started using the
chartplotter, I though course up would be easy but I'm so used to maps
and charts that I kept finding myself confused. My brain wants to
make the conversion and have the stable reference point.

Roger Long

This is the reason that I asked this question. However, please explain to
me how what's in front of you isn't stable. I always know what's in front
of me, but I may not know which way is N without looking at an instrument
(compass.)

When I'm approaching a bouy and it's on my right side, I like to be able to
look at the chartplotter and see a bouy on the right. I don't like having
to think, "oh, I'm headed S, so the the dislay will show it on the left."
I've also been in enough unfamiliar waters where the R/G have reversed
multiple times, so that I can't trust red-right-returning.

Have you ever entered a busy harbor at night and tried to sort out all of
the navigation lights from the shore lights and vessels operating? That
can be very hard, let alone keeping track of the N orientation.

I'm not arguing with you. I just don't think that way, or at least I find
that it takes a lot more concentration to rotate the chart to match what
I'm seeing. When you have other people on board and they're at the helm,
do they find the display confusing?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

I would say that this is a personal preference type of thing. Since
the CG is a military organization, only the top brass gets to have a
preference, and everybody gets to be trained to do it that way.

I prefer north up because when you turn the boat, the chart plotter
doesn't change around. But you need a really good "boat" symbol drawn
on the screen that shows the heading very clearly.

Either way can be "intuitive" if it matches how you think it should
work.

1) You want to watch a boat symbol Use North up
wander around the electronic chart.

2) You want to look at the world like Use Heading up
you have x-ray vision.

Training and practice is the way to make either way work for you. Also
teach each person how to check the mode and change to their
preference.

Todd Smith
3S

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
"Roger Long" wrote in
:

"Geoff Schultz" wrote

I argued that N-up isn't intuitive.

For me, I find it's exactly the opposite. When I started using the
chartplotter, I though course up would be easy but I'm so used to maps
and charts that I kept finding myself confused. My brain wants to
make the conversion and have the stable reference point.

Roger Long

This is the reason that I asked this question. However, please explain to
me how what's in front of you isn't stable. I always know what's in front
of me, but I may not know which way is N without looking at an instrument
(compass.)

When I'm approaching a bouy and it's on my right side, I like to be able
to
look at the chartplotter and see a bouy on the right. I don't like having
to think, "oh, I'm headed S, so the the dislay will show it on the left."
I've also been in enough unfamiliar waters where the R/G have reversed
multiple times, so that I can't trust red-right-returning.

Have you ever entered a busy harbor at night and tried to sort out all of
the navigation lights from the shore lights and vessels operating? That
can be very hard, let alone keeping track of the N orientation.

I'm not arguing with you. I just don't think that way, or at least I find
that it takes a lot more concentration to rotate the chart to match what
I'm seeing. When you have other people on board and they're at the helm,
do they find the display confusing?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org


I don't have a chartplotter on my boat, but every time I've used one and had
the choice between N or forward up, I've used forward up. It's a lot more
intuitive, especially when people who aren't used to chartplotters or
navigation in general are at the helm.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

I always use my instruments North up. I was a surveyor for many years and
had to navigate through dense forest laying out points. All of our plans &
maps were N up so my brain will not function any other way. I navigate the
same way with charts either paper or electronic.

SilverK


"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
"Roger Long" wrote in
:

"Geoff Schultz" wrote

I argued that N-up isn't intuitive.

For me, I find it's exactly the opposite. When I started using the
chartplotter, I though course up would be easy but I'm so used to maps
and charts that I kept finding myself confused. My brain wants to
make the conversion and have the stable reference point.

Roger Long

This is the reason that I asked this question. However, please explain to
me how what's in front of you isn't stable. I always know what's in front
of me, but I may not know which way is N without looking at an instrument
(compass.)

When I'm approaching a bouy and it's on my right side, I like to be able
to
look at the chartplotter and see a bouy on the right. I don't like having
to think, "oh, I'm headed S, so the the dislay will show it on the left."
I've also been in enough unfamiliar waters where the R/G have reversed
multiple times, so that I can't trust red-right-returning.

Have you ever entered a busy harbor at night and tried to sort out all of
the navigation lights from the shore lights and vessels operating? That
can be very hard, let alone keeping track of the N orientation.

I'm not arguing with you. I just don't think that way, or at least I find
that it takes a lot more concentration to rotate the chart to match what
I'm seeing. When you have other people on board and they're at the helm,
do they find the display confusing?

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

I'm in agreement with Geoff. I much prefer the "heading up" mode.

wrote in message
...
I would say that this is a personal preference type of thing. Since
the CG is a military organization, only the top brass gets to have a
preference, and everybody gets to be trained to do it that way.

I prefer north up because when you turn the boat, the chart plotter
doesn't change around. But you need a really good "boat" symbol drawn
on the screen that shows the heading very clearly.

Either way can be "intuitive" if it matches how you think it should
work.

1) You want to watch a boat symbol Use North up
wander around the electronic chart.

2) You want to look at the world like Use Heading up
you have x-ray vision.

Training and practice is the way to make either way work for you. Also
teach each person how to check the mode and change to their
preference.

Todd Smith
3S
I concur with Todd. Having the flexibility to change the orientation of the
boat is convenient. When I am in a familiar area I prefer to use Heading
up. In my case all instruments are mounted in the (Raymarine) cockpit
facing the pedestal compass and the Wheel. By looking at the magnetic
compass I can validate the ECompass and if needed apply the necessary
correction to the autopilot. When inside the cabin we use the Power
Squadron technique on paper charts.

On Jun 4, 4:02 am, Geoff Schultz wrote:
... How do others have their displays configured? How does the CG have their's
configured? What's the purpose of N-up vs heading-up?
....
Just to add a confused point of view, I keep my radar in course up
mode and my electronic charts in N up mode. My radar can do N up but
it uses a non-gyro compass for this and I find it adds errors to have
it hunting around. When I look at the PPI I can guess when we on
heading and take my bearings as we swing past. Course up also makes
plotting on the screen possible. Transfer plotting is better but with
only two folks on board it's rare that we have the time. Box boats
these days are running in excess of 20 knots at sea... Time
flies...

The electronic charts I use are on a computer that I keep at the nav
station. There all the charts, paper and "e" are north up and there
is no confusion. On the e-charts the computer plots my boat, draws an
arrow to along my future course and leaves "bread crumbs" along my
wake... I've never found orientation to be a problem. Though, lots
of places we've been the electronic charts are in excess of a mile out
of WGS and in many locals are not correctable. So, we're not in the
habit of piloting by e-chart alone.

I'm not sure how much cred I'd give some hear-say about how The Coast
Guard does something. There's lots of misinformation out there.
There is the possibility that the CG is using different (and typically
outdated) technology. There's the possibility that only some of them
do it a certain way. And, of course, doing it their way w/o their
training is silly. If the crew can't make it work it's the wrong
system.

-- Tom.

Anyway, it's less brainwork for me to treat it like a paper chart than to
constantly remind myself that it is reorienting. I'm sure it's different
for others and there's nothing wrong with using heading or course up

I agree. I find N-up preferrable, both on the water and in the car. The
wife likes Heading-up. Both systems allow easily making the swap.

For radar I only use Heading-up as it would be a bit more 'brainwork' to
make sense of it when in conditions that really required using radar. And
even in those situations I generally still keep a N-up chart visible in a
split screen view.

If I had to guess I'd say it has a lot to do with how people learn to
navigate. If you've spent a lot of time plotting courses using N-up maps
I'd think it would certainly affect your choice for chartplotter displays.

I wouldn't call either method right or wrong. It's a matter of personal
taste and if one mode allows you to navigate more reliably then, by all
means, stick with using it.