On May 7, 6:37*am, Ron Heron wrote:
After several years of cruising

Ron Heron
S/V Seven C's

Dear Green Heron:

First off its not a Sailing Vessel (S/V) its a RECREATIONAL Yacht.
Dont try to give it any more dignity than it deserves, which is little
in my opinion.

Next, no where in you list did you mention ANY feature that added to
the STABILITY or SEAWORTHNESS of the boat. your list was all about
keeping your lazy fat ass comfortable. Tell me where do you keep your
Lazy Boy reclining chair and 42" flat screen?

If you want a party barge go get one and enjoy yourself but PLEASE do
not decieve yourself in thinking you have a boat capable of "cruising"
or for that matter keeping you safe in anything where I opporate and
we call typical conditions. Go back and review the adventures of RED
CLOUD and how he faired in nothing more than snotty conditions.

Bob

Bob wrote:
On May 7, 6:37 am, Ron Heron wrote:
After several years of cruising

Ron Heron
S/V Seven C's

Dear Green Heron:

First off its not a Sailing Vessel (S/V) its a RECREATIONAL Yacht.
Dont try to give it any more dignity than it deserves, which is little
in my opinion.

Next, no where in you list did you mention ANY feature that added to
the STABILITY or SEAWORTHNESS of the boat. your list was all about
keeping your lazy fat ass comfortable. Tell me where do you keep your
Lazy Boy reclining chair and 42" flat screen?

If you want a party barge go get one and enjoy yourself but PLEASE do
not decieve yourself in thinking you have a boat capable of "cruising"
or for that matter keeping you safe in anything where I opporate and
we call typical conditions. Go back and review the adventures of RED
CLOUD and how he faired in nothing more than snotty conditions.


I'm a little disappointed Neil/Wilbur/Greg/......, I was sure you'd pen
at least a dozen paragraphs of cockamamie tripe.

Cheers
Marty

"Ron Heron" wrote

After several years of cruising with pilothouse and without I've
concluded that pilothouse sailing offers tremendous advantages over
sailing in the raw. Here is what I have found:

1. Much less cockpit glare in a pilothouse - less fatigue, less
sunburn, better visibility.

2. Better environment temperature and sun wise. Can sail for much
longer periods comfortably.

3. Higher position allows for much better visibility.


Maybe you should get a flying bridge or tuna tower? Think of the
visibility you'd have then!


4. Higher position allows for much greater "feel" of the boat. I can
sail much better from a pilothouse. The sailtrim is easier to get
right and its easier to detect wind and current changes.


That is actually backwards from the way all the serious sailors in the
world feel on the issue. When you see America's Cup boats putting the
helmsman in raised pilothouses, you'll know that the attitude has
changed.


5. Access to instrumentation is far superior, no clouded plexiglass
covers.

6. Better airflow through the cockpit of a pilothouse.


?? ??

7. No wacky tiller to deal with. The wife can't handle a tiller but is
a champ on the wheel.


That's nice, but has nothing to do with having a pilot house.


8. Great view of things going on up on the foredeck. You can see
everything, rather than being down in a "hole".


Again, nothing to do with the pilot house. There are many boats with
good sight lines from the cockpit & helm. There are many boats with
poor sight lines. Many pilot house vessels have poor sight lines from
the helm. It's a question of choosing a boat that is well designed for
actual use.

9. Stuff can be stored out of the weather in the pilothouse.

10. Pets less likely to be washed overboard.

11. Greater protection in strong seas.

12. Excellent for entertaining and getting out of the bugs.

I find a pilothouse sailboat just can't be beat for cruising and would
encourage any serious cruiser to look at them before commiting to a
cockpit boat.


Sounds good. I wouold encourage anybody u'a serious cruiser to
consider some of the issues you've mentioned.... plus a lot of others.



"Edgar" wrote:
Must agree with most of that but I am not sure why you claim the airflow can
be better in a pilothouse than in an open cockpit.

me too.

Also, some pilot houses obstruct the view of the mainsail so not all will
allow you to sail better

Some biminis & dodgers have the same problem.

I have no doubt that Wilbur will shortly come back at you about your no. 11
and tell you what he thinks about pilot houses with their large windows.

Wait... here he comes now....

On May 7, 11:49 am, Bob wrote:
.... no where in you list did you mention ANY feature that added to
the STABILITY or SEAWORTHNESS of the boat.

You don't consider visibility & protection of helmsman a seaworthiness
issue? My what a narrow view you have.



If you want a party barge go get one and enjoy yourself but PLEASE do
not decieve yourself in thinking you have a boat capable of "cruising"
or for that matter keeping you safe in anything where I opporate and
we call typical conditions.

Must be nice to have been appointed the ultimate authority on how
other people must sail & cruise. Is this an elected position, or did
cronies in high places appoint you?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Wed, 7 May 2008 10:22:58 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Maybe you should get a flying bridge

Now we're talking. :-)

I have actually seen a couple of megayacht sailing machines with
flybridges over the last couple of years.

Maybe you should get a flying bridge


Wayne.B wrote:
Now we're talking. :-)

I have actually seen a couple of megayacht sailing machines with
flybridges over the last couple of years.

Heck yeah. When you've got 150'+ of LOA to work with, you can put in
all kind of stuff that won't fit on a smaller boat. It can even look
pretty sleek.

I'd kind of like to have a dinghy garage, with room for at least a
half-dozen Lasers, a couple of Melges 24s, a 25~30' center console
runabout, and a 30' IB commuter gig. Then, a hot tub on the foredeck
(with a pushbutton retractable solid cover, of course). A gimballed
(maybe gyro-stabilized) pool room. A boat with room for all that,
who's gonna notice the flying bridge?

DSK

On Thu, 8 May 2008 05:04:49 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I'd kind of like to have a dinghy garage, with room for at least a
half-dozen Lasers, a couple of Melges 24s, a 25~30' center console
runabout, and a 30' IB commuter gig. Then, a hot tub on the foredeck
(with a pushbutton retractable solid cover, of course). A gimballed
(maybe gyro-stabilized) pool room. A boat with room for all that,
who's gonna notice the flying bridge?

Thought you already had all that. :-)

On May 8, 2:41*am, wrote:

Yes, most sailors want to be as far away and removed from the water as possible.
Twenty miles inland is their favorite place of all.

You see we do share common gound. I agree completly!

I am amazed at how many (I wont use the wrord "sailor") people on
boats could care less about the water. In fact as the OP here
describes the advantages of insulating the operator from the sea... to
seperate from the sea..

Even the guy on the Red Clown was described in the media as
"...terrified of getting in the water..." It gets better. When I
attended DIvers Institute of Technology (a 6 month comercial diver
school in Seattle) two coonasses from LA couldnt even swim! Now why
are you going to commercial dive school if you CANT SWIM?!?!

So people here fill their boats with electronics and gadgets to
protect themselvs from the sea and shelter them slvs in pilot houses
and build fat bathtub boats for intertaining without regard to
seakeeping ability. Its all about selling/marketing/profit to get
people who dont like the ocean but want to llve the life of the rich
an famos with the MOST important critera for boat selectoin is........
will I look cool drinking and eating. The problme is sometime they go
to sea and get into small craft warnings and:
Blame NOAA weather
Killer storms and howling winds (really 8-12' seas 20-30K wind gusting
to 38K)
Curse e

Do we still agree?
Bob

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 May 2008 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

On May 8, 2:41 am, wrote:

Yes, most sailors want to be as far away and removed from the water as
possible.
Twenty miles inland is their favorite place of all.

You see we do share common gound. I agree completly!

I am amazed at how many (I wont use the wrord "sailor") people on
boats could care less about the water. In fact as the OP here
describes the advantages of insulating the operator from the sea... to
seperate from the sea..

Even the guy on the Red Clown was described in the media as
"...terrified of getting in the water..." It gets better. When I
attended DIvers Institute of Technology (a 6 month comercial diver
school in Seattle) two coonasses from LA couldnt even swim! Now why
are you going to commercial dive school if you CANT SWIM?!?!

So people here fill their boats with electronics and gadgets to
protect themselvs from the sea and shelter them slvs in pilot houses
and build fat bathtub boats for intertaining without regard to
seakeeping ability. Its all about selling/marketing/profit to get
people who dont like the ocean but want to llve the life of the rich
an famos with the MOST important critera for boat selectoin is........
will I look cool drinking and eating. The problme is sometime they go
to sea and get into small craft warnings and:
Blame NOAA weather
Killer storms and howling winds (really 8-12' seas 20-30K wind gusting
to 38K)
Curse e

Do we still agree?
Bob

NOAA weather predictions in my home waters are worse than useless.

Threshold criteria for Small Craft Warnings (at least around here) are
usually based on 5 foot or greater seas OR steady 25mph wind.


Out here they're great... Small Craft Advisories almost every Summer day!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On May 8, 10:49*am, Dave wrote:
On Thu, 8 May 2008 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Bob said:

Yes, well I was trained as a diver too. But I try not to brag about it where
it's not relevant to the discussion.

I guess Ive been reading too many of Roger's posts and his constant
self promotion and attempts at building credibility. Still that is no
excuse. I appologize deeply for the reference to DIT.

You are correct any true diver would not have mentioned it. I stand
corrected and ashamed that I stooped so low.
bob

On May 8, 3:02*pm, Bob wrote:
On May 8, 10:49*am, Dave wrote:

On Thu, 8 May 2008 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Bob said:
Yes, well I was trained as a diver too. But I try not to brag about it where
it's not relevant to the discussion.

I guess Ive been reading too many of Roger's posts and his constant
self promotion and attempts at building credibility. Still that is no
excuse. I appologize deeply for the reference to DIT.

You are correct any true diver would not have mentioned it. I stand
corrected and ashamed that I stooped so low.
bob

Next you will be claiming you were a SEAL. Keep it up Bob and maybe
in 20-30 years you might get that credibility you are so desperately
seeking.

Way back when Bob dived he had his diving buddy's back covered.
http://home.att.net/~crinaustin/Croc_files/image003.jpg

Fred