On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:51:23 -0300, wrote:


"Bloody Horvath" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:42:37 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote this crap:

Therefore, though sail size is a limiting factor, it is not as big a
limiting factor as anchor weight. And, I would suggest that more vessels
get
in trouble due to folks futzing around with anchors that are too heavy for
them to handle than with sails that are on the largish end of the
spectrum.
A "lunch hook" is a trouble hook. Always use an anchor sized for the
vessel

Wilbur Hubbard

I have a thirty-five foot yacht, and NO electric windlass. I have no
problem pulling up the anchor. IMO you don't need one until you get
40 foot or larger.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

For your perusal:
Your thirty-five foot yacht, subject to where your are cruising, requires at
least a primary anchor of about 35 pounds and a secondary one of about the
same size. You may be able to get away with an aluminum anchor like the
Fortress or equivalent of about 18 pounds. Not mention the weight of the
chain you have a fair load to hoist. Compound this with a fresh wind when
you lift your anchor and you will not have to go to Body Plus (Gym) that
evening).
The other way is to use an undersize anchor and lifting become much easier
as well as dragging when the wind starts to freshen up. I never had a
windlass for decades with my previous boat using a 13 pounds Danford.
Now, with my new boat I carry three anchors, two of 35 pounds each and one
of 18 pounds. Having pulled my old Danford for decades I appreciate the
electric windlass. My windlass will not work unless the boat engine is on.
Should the windlass becomes not operational I can always return to my basic
training to pull the anchor or use one of the winches.



I'll add a bit to that. You have, say a 40 pound of anchor, anchored
in say 30 feet of somewhat exposed water so you have a 5:1 scope out.
The wind is blowing onshore at say 7 MPH. You are single handed.

I guarantee that you will appreciate having a powered windlass!

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On 2008-04-14 13:27:55 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

Because they all ARE! It's a biological fact that the elderly are much
diminished from their mental and physical capacites they embodied in their
prime. It's nothing to be ashamed of but it IS something that should be
taken into consideration. To deny aging equates to diminished capacity is to
deny reality.

But to assert that they are incapable is to deny reality as well.

It's not an either-or, but a "both" solution. My wife can't manhandle
systems on our boat the way I do. She needs winch handles, for
instance, and couldn't easily haul our current anchor and chain by
hand. She's a little girl and never had that sort of strength.

But she can handle a properly set-up 46' cat as easily as our pocket
cruiser once she learns the systems.

All it takes is adapting your systems and techniques to the available skills.

Sometimes the system needed *is* a smaller boat. We have a few people
on our docks who aren't old or particularly incapable, but don't go out
single-handed. They should have smaller boats. (Some got sailing dinks
for knocking around.)

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:46:54 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I have no
qualms about my Fortress standing up to the strains that sand, mud, or
gravel can put on it.

They're OK for certain conditions but I regard them as a special
purpose anchor. They will frequently not set in adverse conditions
such as:

- from a moving boat (anchor planes through water or skips along the
bottom).

- strong currents (see above).

- unfavorable bottom (hard, weedy, rocky, etc).

All danforth type anchors have a strong propensity for becoming fouled
in reversing tide or wind conditions. They excel however in high
holding power for their weight *if* properly set, and if the load
direction does not change more than a small amount.

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:38:01 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

Thus, as I said, the limiting factor isn't boat size or anchor
weight but really, sail area.

You need a better sail handling system. Do you have lazy jacks, dutch
men, and/or a stack pack system? I have seen one person easily handle
the mainsail on a 70 footer using all the above (and an electric
halyard winch).

It is also important to have your halyard and jiffy reefing lines run
back to the cockpit with stoppers and winches, halyard on one side,
jiffy reefing on the other.

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:10:52 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

40 feet is marginal for two.....

We find that a 49 ft trawler is about right but even that has its
limits.

On 2008-04-14 09:24:20 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
said:

You are soooo wrong! If your first priority is a sailboat large enough to
make it a seaborne reflection of your shoreside residence filled will all
the luxuries and frivolity of said lubberly abode then please STAY ashore.

He's wrong only if he's alone doing it. Adding a second person at least
doubles the "stuff", and very few mates (of either sex) are as
dedicated, so the required few concessions add to the clutter.

Add occasional family and friends and the requirements pretty much
double again (though that space can be reclaimed between times).

-----

At work, I'm training my replacements, will be outsourced by the end of
the year. If it were just me, I'd sell the house, cut the lines and be
in the Bahamas on Xan by this time next year.

But having my lady with me makes it so much better, so at most we'll be
on a sabbatical of a few months down there.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2008-04-14 17:01:58 -0400, "Capt. JG" said:

I find my 30-footer the perfect size for "extended" day cruising and several
overnights. It's big enough to be comfortable, yet it's small enough to make
single-handing a breeze in most conditions.

Pat and I find our 28' comfortable for about a month at a time, our max
cruise so far. Pat thinks Xan's satisfactory for 2-3 months at a clip,
but time will tell.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On 2008-04-14 19:58:04 -0400, Bloody Horvath said:

35 lbs. is hardly more than a sixteen pound bowling ball in each hand.
If you can't handle that... shape up or ship out.

My sixteen year old nephew can pull up the anchor.

Don't forget the chain. We are a size (or maybe two) big on 30' of
chain, so have an additional 30# to haul up. Mud can weigh a bit, too.

I just imagine most 5'2" 125# women trying to haul that by hand.

Yeah, we can lighten our anchor & chain, but would first get a
windlass, as we sleep better with what we have mounted.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Apr 14, 3:19 pm, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
I've been aboard some of those 35 ft. cruising boats that have been
sailing for several years. The ones that entertain guests in the
cockpit because there isn;t room down below for four people to sit
down.

Well our experience here differs. I've enjoyed a good number of
dinners served below by cruising couples in their 30 something foot
boats. Some on small 30 something boats. We sat six to dinner one
night in Tonga on a 32 foot boat cruised by a couple. Four of us had
dinner below on a 25' Pacific Seacraft that was half way between
Hawaii and Oz with a couple aboard... I've got two sets of
particularly dear friends who've fed us many times in their 36 and 37
foot boats and both pairs of them have been cruising very seriously
for over 20 years. One of them is a professional boat builder and a
talented sculptor and he keeps an extraordinarily complete set of
tools and spares and there's still plenty of room below. Two folks
can live and cruise full time on a moderate displacement monohull of
35 feet in some comfort (eg. with a computer, tv, books &c) and still
have a place to entertain below, stow a few grand-kids for the
occasional week or two and carry a lot of spares. If you absolutely
refuse to ever take anything off the boat you'll eventually be
entertaining on deck no matter how big your boat is.

Of course, bigger boats can carry more, are generally faster, safer
and more comfortable at sea, have more privacy, berths that are kinder
to old backs and so on. The trade offs are that they're more
expensive to keep, and either harder to work or more complex... So,
there's an engineering compromise that juggles money, crew strength,
tech ability and so on. There are also many aesthetic questions. For
instance, I think its good for people to live on boat that gives them
a buzz to behold. Some folks want to live with a Zen like simplicity
and others want to be reminded of oak and tar... One size does not
fit all. But, IMO, all things considered, 36 isn't a bad number.

By the way, Pago is civilization. Heck Apia is civilization. They
have currier service, hardware stores, engineering shops, you name
it. I've had a broken boat in Apia.

-- Tom.

"Jere Lull" wrote in message
news:2008041422261877923-jerelull@maccom...
On 2008-04-14 19:58:04 -0400, Bloody Horvath said:

35 lbs. is hardly more than a sixteen pound bowling ball in each hand.
If you can't handle that... shape up or ship out.

My sixteen year old nephew can pull up the anchor.

Don't forget the chain. We are a size (or maybe two) big on 30' of chain,
so have an additional 30# to haul up. Mud can weigh a bit, too.

I just imagine most 5'2" 125# women trying to haul that by hand.

Yeah, we can lighten our anchor & chain, but would first get a windlass,
as we sleep better with what we have mounted.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/



Jere... he doesn't actually sail and he certainly has never had to deal with
an anchor/chain combo. 30 feet of chain ain't nuthin if you have a all-chain
rode.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com