On Apr 14, 2:49 am, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
The reason I always tell people that they need a forty foot boat isn't
because it takes forty feet to keep two people's head above water. It
takes forty feet to keep two people AND all the tools, spares, parts,
cooking pots, clothes and the Banjo above water.

Curiously, stuff seems to accumulate to fill all the available space.
Lots of couples live aboard full time and cruise widely in 35 ish feet
of moderate displacement. I tend to think that 36' is close to the
magic compromise in terms of space and cost and workability for a
voyaging couple on a monohull. I'd take ten feet off that for day-
sailing and the occasional extended weekend. Cats need a bit more
size offshore. But, YMMV big time.

-- Tom.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 14, 2:49 am, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
The reason I always tell people that they need a forty foot boat isn't
because it takes forty feet to keep two people's head above water. It
takes forty feet to keep two people AND all the tools, spares, parts,
cooking pots, clothes and the Banjo above water.

Curiously, stuff seems to accumulate to fill all the available space.
Lots of couples live aboard full time and cruise widely in 35 ish feet
of moderate displacement. I tend to think that 36' is close to the
magic compromise in terms of space and cost and workability for a
voyaging couple on a monohull. I'd take ten feet off that for day-
sailing and the occasional extended weekend. Cats need a bit more
size offshore. But, YMMV big time.

-- Tom.



I find my 30-footer the perfect size for "extended" day cruising and several
overnights. It's big enough to be comfortable, yet it's small enough to make
single-handing a breeze in most conditions.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:42:37 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote this crap:

Therefore, though sail size is a limiting factor, it is not as big a
limiting factor as anchor weight. And, I would suggest that more vessels get
in trouble due to folks futzing around with anchors that are too heavy for
them to handle than with sails that are on the largish end of the spectrum.
A "lunch hook" is a trouble hook. Always use an anchor sized for the vessel

Wilbur Hubbard

I have a thirty-five foot yacht, and NO electric windlass. I have no
problem pulling up the anchor. IMO you don't need one until you get
40 foot or larger.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

"Bloody Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:42:37 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote this crap:

Therefore, though sail size is a limiting factor, it is not as big a
limiting factor as anchor weight. And, I would suggest that more vessels
get
in trouble due to folks futzing around with anchors that are too heavy for
them to handle than with sails that are on the largish end of the
spectrum.
A "lunch hook" is a trouble hook. Always use an anchor sized for the
vessel

Wilbur Hubbard

I have a thirty-five foot yacht, and NO electric windlass. I have no
problem pulling up the anchor. IMO you don't need one until you get
40 foot or larger.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

For your perusal:
Your thirty-five foot yacht, subject to where your are cruising, requires at
least a primary anchor of about 35 pounds and a secondary one of about the
same size. You may be able to get away with an aluminum anchor like the
Fortress or equivalent of about 18 pounds. Not mention the weight of the
chain you have a fair load to hoist. Compound this with a fresh wind when
you lift your anchor and you will not have to go to Body Plus (Gym) that
evening).
The other way is to use an undersize anchor and lifting become much easier
as well as dragging when the wind starts to freshen up. I never had a
windlass for decades with my previous boat using a 13 pounds Danford.
Now, with my new boat I carry three anchors, two of 35 pounds each and one
of 18 pounds. Having pulled my old Danford for decades I appreciate the
electric windlass. My windlass will not work unless the boat engine is on.
Should the windlass becomes not operational I can always return to my basic
training to pull the anchor or use one of the winches.

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:51:23 -0300, wrote
this crap:

I have a thirty-five foot yacht, and NO electric windlass. I have no
problem pulling up the anchor. IMO you don't need one until you get
40 foot or larger.


For your perusal:
Your thirty-five foot yacht, subject to where your are cruising, requires at
least a primary anchor of about 35 pounds and a secondary one of about the

Yeah. So what?


same size. You may be able to get away with an aluminum anchor like the
Fortress or equivalent of about 18 pounds. Not mention the weight of the
chain you have a fair load to hoist. Compound this with a fresh wind when
you lift your anchor and you will not have to go to Body Plus (Gym) that
evening).


35 lbs. is hardly more than a sixteen pound bowling ball in each hand.
If you can't handle that... shape up or ship out.

My sixteen year old nephew can pull up the anchor.





I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:


Sail size is also important. But, it is often stated by competent sailors
who write about such things that a man in good physical condition can hand
and/or reef individual sails up to 500 square feet each even in strong
winds. This size sail can be found on boats up to about forty feet LOA which
vessels require anchors in the 50-60 pound range to be held securely in a
storm.

Therefore, though sail size is a limiting factor, it is not as big a
limiting factor as anchor weight.

My personal experience does not agree. My 42' boat has a displacement of
roughly 33,000 lbs. It has a mainsail area of roughly 450 feet. I have
no problems weighing anchor of 65 lbs with a reasonable lead of chain /
rope rode, but I do have a serious issue handling the mainsail in heavy
weather. Even with jiffy reefing, taking in a reef or furling the
mainsail for running bare is a major issue while anchoring has always
been rather simple.

I have never tried anchoring in, say, 15 fathoms with an all chain rode,
but then the mass of the anchor isn't really the issue as much as the
rode. So a 10 lb anchor with that rode would be as difficult as the 65
(pretty much) meaning a Mac 26 would be as much a problem as my Tayana
42. Thus, as I said, the limiting factor isn't boat size or anchor
weight but really, sail area.

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:07:45 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

That is an excellent point. I think the real distinction is between
"cruising" and "living aboard". Being a northerner who has spent his life
in the cycle of the seasons and planning cruises north where the seasons are
even shorter, a shore base is a given for me. Being in love with a woman
who likes gardens and neighbors more, and cruising in *slightly* less than I
do is also a factor.

I expect to spend some long periods essentially living aboard but my needs
are simple as long as I can keep moving and see new things. If I planned to
abandon all physical presence ashore, I expect I would decide I need a
larger boat.

I don;t like the term "live aboard" as it has the connotation of being
tied to the dock. Rather, imagine setting off on a, say five or six
year circumnavigation and what you would want to bring along on the
trip....You'll need the torque wrench in case you overhaul the engine.
A small welder is handy for fixing broken chain plates, of course you
will need your carpenter's tool chest and the mechanic's tool box and
a few gallons of epoxy. Those left over bronze plumbing fittings will
come in handy and probably better have enough tubing to replace the
gas line to the stove in case it breaks. A spare shroud might be
handy.

Oh, yes, a white shirt, necktie and long trousers and a pair of shoes,
in case you get invited to a wedding.

40 feet is marginal for two.....


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:41:41 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:08:09 -0400, Gogarty
wrote:

One could run the rode back to the primary winches but I don't
think they would handle chain very well.

The sailing battleships had a hemp rode something like four inches in
diameter, They would attach a length of smaller stuff to the rode and
lead that to the capstan.

Casady

They also had a crew of 400 men.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:27:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Apr 14, 2:49 am, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
The reason I always tell people that they need a forty foot boat isn't
because it takes forty feet to keep two people's head above water. It
takes forty feet to keep two people AND all the tools, spares, parts,
cooking pots, clothes and the Banjo above water.

Curiously, stuff seems to accumulate to fill all the available space.
Lots of couples live aboard full time and cruise widely in 35 ish feet
of moderate displacement. I tend to think that 36' is close to the
magic compromise in terms of space and cost and workability for a
voyaging couple on a monohull. I'd take ten feet off that for day-
sailing and the occasional extended weekend. Cats need a bit more
size offshore. But, YMMV big time.

-- Tom.


I've been aboard some of those 35 ft. cruising boats that have been
sailing for several years. The ones that entertain guests in the
cockpit because there isn;t room down below for four people to sit
down.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:01:58 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Apr 14, 2:49 am, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
The reason I always tell people that they need a forty foot boat isn't
because it takes forty feet to keep two people's head above water. It
takes forty feet to keep two people AND all the tools, spares, parts,
cooking pots, clothes and the Banjo above water.

Curiously, stuff seems to accumulate to fill all the available space.
Lots of couples live aboard full time and cruise widely in 35 ish feet
of moderate displacement. I tend to think that 36' is close to the
magic compromise in terms of space and cost and workability for a
voyaging couple on a monohull. I'd take ten feet off that for day-
sailing and the occasional extended weekend. Cats need a bit more
size offshore. But, YMMV big time.

-- Tom.



I find my 30-footer the perfect size for "extended" day cruising and several
overnights. It's big enough to be comfortable, yet it's small enough to make
single-handing a breeze in most conditions.


My point exactly. But you don;t have two year's supply of engine
spares, a spare propeller, a complete set of mechanics tools, a fair
sized chest of carpenter's tools and all the other bits and pieces
that you "might need" if it breaks in PagoPago, or some other remote
place.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)