On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:23:06 -0600, dazed and confuzed
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

Interestingly, there was a claim here not long ago that mixing a bit
of diesel with petrol made it much _safer_ to weld around etc.

Why is gasoline mixed with fuel oil any more explosive than gasoline by
itself? I can see that it might have more thermal energy

It has less, actually, unless magic happens. Diesel has more than
petrol. Petrol is hotter, but has less actual output/litre.

, but why should it be MORE explosive than gasoline by itself?

I am interested as well.
************************************************** ** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

Larry,I didn't destroyed the guy who pumped the gas did !!!!!
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:12:51 -0800, "Steve" wrote:


If your still not sure, then pour a little out into an open pie tin and
toss
a match in to it. If it flashes right up, then it's most likely it has
gas
in it.. The straight diesel will just burn like kerosene (may even put
the
match out).

Is now a good time to mention that gas mixed with fuel oil is one of
the most explosive mixtures this side of dynamite or fuel oil and
fertilizer?

Sorry you destroyed your engine. I always found the pumps clearly
marked.



Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....

Larry W4CSC wrote:
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:12:51 -0800, "Steve" wrote:



If your still not sure, then pour a little out into an open pie tin and toss
a match in to it. If it flashes right up, then it's most likely it has gas
in it.. The straight diesel will just burn like kerosene (may even put the
match out).


Is now a good time to mention that gas mixed with fuel oil is one of
the most explosive mixtures this side of dynamite or fuel oil and
fertilizer?

Sorry you destroyed your engine. I always found the pumps clearly
marked.



Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....
Why is gasoline mixed with fuel oil any more explosive than gasoline by
itself? I can see that it might have more thermal energy, but why should
it be MORE explosive than gasoline by itself?

--
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch"

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:12:51 -0800, "Steve" wrote:


If your still not sure, then pour a little out into an open pie tin and toss
a match in to it. If it flashes right up, then it's most likely it has gas
in it.. The straight diesel will just burn like kerosene (may even put the
match out).

Is now a good time to mention that gas mixed with fuel oil is one of
the most explosive mixtures this side of dynamite or fuel oil and
fertilizer?

Sorry you destroyed your engine. I always found the pumps clearly
marked.



Larry W4CSC

No, no, Scotty! I said, "Beam me a wrench.", not a WENCH!
Kirk Out.....

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:28:58 -0800, "Ytter" wrote:

Hi! I need your expertise or opinion.
I have diesel engine Volvo Penta MD3 on my sailboat .Just after refueling in
one of the marina(in 10 minutes) engine reached temp 280 F
I had to run the engine for another 8-10 minutes to drop the anchor and I
shut off the engine which was red hot.I suspect that they pumped 20 gal
gasoline instead of diesel.Capacity of the tank is 40 gal.I still have this
fuel in the tank.How can I check if gasoline is in the tank,mixed with
diesel ? Is it any method,way to analyze or find out.Maybe I should find the
lab or place that can be determine what this fuel consists.
If they pumped the gasoline accidentally or not the engine is probably
damaged.Thank You For Your Help.
Ytter


Steve's suggestion of putting a sample in a jar is good. I'd also suspect that
the sample would separate after a few hours...gas on top, diesel on the bottom.

You mention above that the engine was "red hot" after shut-down. What were
the indicators? The temp gauge only? "Frying" noises and smell of a hot engine?
Smoke/smell from hot paint? Could a stuck-closed thermostat be the problem?

One thing I'm curious about is how the engine ran with a 50/50 mixture. I'd
think that since gas has a much lower flash point (it does, doesn't it?), it
would have ignited earlier in the compression cycle, and made a heck of a racket,
and that power would be low. Also, I'd think the exhaust would be quite smoky.

Good luck...hope your mechanic says all's well.
Norm

Engsol! Engine would start-run for 3-4 sec and die,then I started again
after I checked thermostat-was OK,changed oil and filter.,I pushed the
throttle almost to the max ,black smoke,muddy,greasy,heavy smoke came out
with some water-engine run for 2 min and continue spiting this black water
and stopped abruptly,cut like a knife-mechanic was present when we did that
and said that he doesn't know what is wrong.He has spent 2 hours checking
what was wrong and left me without answer.Of course took the money for
trying.
Ytter
"engsol" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:28:58 -0800, "Ytter"
wrote:

Hi! I need your expertise or opinion.
I have diesel engine Volvo Penta MD3 on my sailboat .Just after refueling
in
one of the marina(in 10 minutes) engine reached temp 280 F
I had to run the engine for another 8-10 minutes to drop the anchor and I
shut off the engine which was red hot.I suspect that they pumped 20 gal
gasoline instead of diesel.Capacity of the tank is 40 gal.I still have
this
fuel in the tank.How can I check if gasoline is in the tank,mixed with
diesel ? Is it any method,way to analyze or find out.Maybe I should find
the
lab or place that can be determine what this fuel consists.
If they pumped the gasoline accidentally or not the engine is probably
damaged.Thank You For Your Help.
Ytter


Steve's suggestion of putting a sample in a jar is good. I'd also suspect
that
the sample would separate after a few hours...gas on top, diesel on the
bottom.

You mention above that the engine was "red hot" after shut-down. What were
the indicators? The temp gauge only? "Frying" noises and smell of a hot
engine?
Smoke/smell from hot paint? Could a stuck-closed thermostat be the
problem?

One thing I'm curious about is how the engine ran with a 50/50 mixture.
I'd
think that since gas has a much lower flash point (it does, doesn't it?),
it
would have ignited earlier in the compression cycle, and made a heck of a
racket,
and that power would be low. Also, I'd think the exhaust would be quite
smoky.

Good luck...hope your mechanic says all's well.
Norm

Ytter,

I have known of several gasoline in diesel engine situations.
I hope it did not actually happen that way. They seldom come out well.

After reading the entire thread - including your additions - I think you
may well have more that one problem - now. My personal bet (without any
actual contact) based on some experience, would be that the cylinder
head gasket got taken out. That will cause both the over heat problem,
the smoke and the bad running. I am somewhat surprized that the
mechanic did not have the cylinder head off.

Though I suspect your statement that the engine was red hot is an
exageration, if it got hot enough to blister the paint. You can count
on the engine requiring serious work before it is dependable again.
This will be as much as reboring the cylinders to get them round again
and doing a valve job because the seats are distorted.

If the engine is not easy to work on where it is, I suggest you
seriously consider getting it removed as that time required for the
minimum amount of work the engine is likely to require.

I leave you by saying that I sincerely hope that I am completely wrong.

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor

Ytter wrote:
Engsol! Engine would start-run for 3-4 sec and die,then I started again
after I checked thermostat-was OK,changed oil and filter. I pushed the
throttle almost to the max, black smoke, muddy, greasy, heavy smoke came out
with some water-engine run for 2 min and continue spiting this black water
and stopped abruptly,cut like a knife-mechanic was present when we did that
and said that he doesn't know what is wrong.He has spent 2 hours checking
what was wrong and left me without answer. Of course took the money for
trying.
Ytter
"engsol" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:28:58 -0800, "Ytter"

wrote:

Hi! I need your expertise or opinion.
I have diesel engine Volvo Penta MD3 on my sailboat .Just after refueling
in one of the marina(in 10 minutes) engine reached temp 280 F
I had to run the engine for another 8-10 minutes to drop the anchor and I
shut off the engine which was red hot.I suspect that they pumped 20 gal
gasoline instead of diesel.Capacity of the tank is 40 gal.I still have
this fuel in the tank.How can I check if gasoline is in the tank,mixed with
diesel ? Is it any method,way to analyze or find out.Maybe I should find
the lab or place that can be determine what this fuel consists.
If they pumped the gasoline accidentally or not the engine is probably
damaged. Thank You For Your Help.
Ytter

Ytter,

I have known of several gasoline in diesel engine situations.
I hope it did not actually happen that way. They seldom come out well.

After reading the entire thread - including your additions - I think you
may well have more that one problem - now. My personal bet (without any
actual contact) based on some experience, would be that the cylinder
head gasket got taken out. That will cause both the over heat problem,
the smoke and the bad running. I am somewhat surprized that the
mechanic did not have the cylinder head off.

Though I suspect your statement that the engine was red hot is an
exageration, if it got hot enough to blister the paint. You can count
on the engine requiring serious work before it is dependable again.
This will be as much as reboring the cylinders to get them round again
and doing a valve job because the seats are distorted.

If the engine is not easy to work on where it is, I suggest you
seriously consider getting it removed as that time required for the
minimum amount of work the engine is likely to require.

I leave you by saying that I sincerely hope that I am completely wrong.

Matt Colie
Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Perpetual Sailor

Ytter wrote:
Engsol! Engine would start-run for 3-4 sec and die,then I started again
after I checked thermostat-was OK,changed oil and filter. I pushed the
throttle almost to the max, black smoke, muddy, greasy, heavy smoke came out
with some water-engine run for 2 min and continue spiting this black water
and stopped abruptly,cut like a knife-mechanic was present when we did that
and said that he doesn't know what is wrong.He has spent 2 hours checking
what was wrong and left me without answer. Of course took the money for
trying.
Ytter
"engsol" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:28:58 -0800, "Ytter"

wrote:

Hi! I need your expertise or opinion.
I have diesel engine Volvo Penta MD3 on my sailboat .Just after refueling
in one of the marina(in 10 minutes) engine reached temp 280 F
I had to run the engine for another 8-10 minutes to drop the anchor and I
shut off the engine which was red hot.I suspect that they pumped 20 gal
gasoline instead of diesel.Capacity of the tank is 40 gal.I still have
this fuel in the tank.How can I check if gasoline is in the tank,mixed with
diesel ? Is it any method,way to analyze or find out.Maybe I should find
the lab or place that can be determine what this fuel consists.
If they pumped the gasoline accidentally or not the engine is probably
damaged. Thank You For Your Help.
Ytter

In article ,
"Ytter" wrote:

Engsol! Engine would start-run for 3-4 sec and die,then I started again
after I checked thermostat-was OK,changed oil and filter.,I pushed the
throttle almost to the max ,black smoke,muddy,greasy,heavy smoke came out
with some water-engine run for 2 min and continue spiting this black water
and stopped abruptly,cut like a knife-mechanic was present when we did that
and said that he doesn't know what is wrong.He has spent 2 hours checking
what was wrong and left me without answer.Of course took the money for
trying.
Ytter

The overheating sounds bad. Hope you were exaggerating.

The black smoke and dying COULD be something else, though: As soon as I
poured on cruise power after our first fill one season (late June after
a November end-of-season fill), we got just about what you describe and
thought for sure I'd put gas into the tank. Long story short: Had to
change the filters twice, then clean the last one (I only carry 2
spares), bleeding each time. Was a BIG shot of algae.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

In article ,
"Ytter" wrote:

Engsol! Engine would start-run for 3-4 sec and die,then I started again
after I checked thermostat-was OK,changed oil and filter.,I pushed the
throttle almost to the max ,black smoke,muddy,greasy,heavy smoke came out
with some water-engine run for 2 min and continue spiting this black water
and stopped abruptly,cut like a knife-mechanic was present when we did that
and said that he doesn't know what is wrong.He has spent 2 hours checking
what was wrong and left me without answer.Of course took the money for
trying.
Ytter

The overheating sounds bad. Hope you were exaggerating.

The black smoke and dying COULD be something else, though: As soon as I
poured on cruise power after our first fill one season (late June after
a November end-of-season fill), we got just about what you describe and
thought for sure I'd put gas into the tank. Long story short: Had to
change the filters twice, then clean the last one (I only carry 2
spares), bleeding each time. Was a BIG shot of algae.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/