x-no-archive:yes


Dick Locke wrote:

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:11:30 GMT, Rosalie B.
wrote:

OK forgot to say - fixed docks with short finger piers but our slip
has a full length dock beside it. We have only about 2 foot tides
there though so a fixed dock isn't so bad.

Fixed docks with a 2-foot normal tide are usually OK but I had two
incidents with them...once the tide was so low the boat had grounded
in the slip and I couldn't get from the dock to the deck till the tide
came in.

Well what did it hurt to wait? Or just use a gangplank. We've been
on the ground in the slip (not at our home marina, but at Hilton Head
in SC) and had to wait until high tide to leave because the boat
wasn't floating.

Then in Mobile, the storm surge from TS Isidore was about three feet
above normal high tide causing all sorts of line adjustment problems
and the docks to go under water for a few hours.

Did you look at my picture of our boat in the dock after Isabel?
http://photomail.photoworks.com/shar...s/KHX/At3xUbeV

The marina pictures were at LOW tide the next day (Friday).

[The first (1-4) pictures are of Bob on the roof of the porch roof
sweeping the leaves and branches off. Then are some (5-9) pictures
from the upstairs window of the house showing that there wasn't any
damage except leaves and some branches on the ground at our house
although we were without electricity for several days. We live up on
a hill about 1/4 mile above the Potomac.]

Low tide after Isabel off the Potomac River down near the Chesapeake
Bay
#10 - marina from the access road
#11 - haulout slip (under water)
#12 - covered slips
#13 - boardwalk beside covered slips
#14 - Spinnaker's restaurant
#15 and #16 - high tide mark in the yard of the first house on the
road next to the marina (the house is beside where #10 was taken)
#17 and #18 - Gas dock and A dock
#19 steps of marina office (which normally are next to the office)
#20-21 our boat from the docks
#22 - dinghy of next boat from beside our boat. I couldn't get on the
boat because it was too high over the dock.

The tidal surge went up to the top of the pilings - about 5 feet above
the dock, which is normally one or two feet above the water. We had
our boat tied with spring lines in the slip (as did the people that
didn't go to anchor or have their boats hauled) with the lines to the
pilings on the far side of the dock because we only have cleats on our
side.

I took the pictures from partway out the dock because Bob wanted to
know how the boat fared, and he didn't want to wade out there and I
didn't mind. It was difficult because the water was up to my knees
and I had to get over or under all the lines from our side of the dock
to the other side. When I got down there I sat on the steps next to
the boat to rest. That's where the last picture was taken of the
dinghy of our neighbor on top of the dock in the last picture.


In any case - my point is - if you know how to secure a boat to a
fixed dock (and IMHO you SHOULD know) it is perfectly possible to do
so without a problem even with a high tide. All those shrimp boats
in SC and GA and northern FL with 6 to 8 foot tides - most of them are
at fixed docks. We are at a fixed concrete dock here in Marathon with
about a 2 foot normal tide. (I think they have fixed docks here
mostly because of the hurricane season.)

So you should know how to have the boat safely in the slip even in an
extra high or extra low tide. I think that's something that a
sailor/boater should know. If you have a fixed dock and a tide that
isn't too great - that's a good opportunity to practice so that if you
go somewhere and they say - you can stay on the gas dock tonight (gas
docks are often fixed docks), and BTW we have 6.5 foot tides and it's
high tide now (and your boat is about even with the dock at that
point) you have some clue as to how to proceed.

It may be easier to have floating docks (although I always have to
have a step stool on the dock to get off our boat if there are
floating docks), but unless you never intend to go anywhere outside
your own marina (and if that is so - why even have a boat), then you
need to know stuff like how to tie the boat up in a variety of
situations - face dock, or slip with a 4 point tie, floating dock or
fixed dock, cleats or pilings.


grandma Rosalie

Rosalie,

I think this is a good subject to explore in more detail. Our boat is
in a marina with floating docks, so this is something we've never had
to deal with. How _do_ you tie up to a fixed dock with an extreme
tidal range?

Don W.



In any case - my point is - if you know how to secure a boat to a
fixed dock (and IMHO you SHOULD know) it is perfectly possible to do
so without a problem even with a high tide. All those shrimp boats
in SC and GA and northern FL with 6 to 8 foot tides - most of them are
at fixed docks. We are at a fixed concrete dock here in Marathon with
about a 2 foot normal tide. (I think they have fixed docks here
mostly because of the hurricane season.)

So you should know how to have the boat safely in the slip even in an
extra high or extra low tide. I think that's something that a
sailor/boater should know. If you have a fixed dock and a tide that
isn't too great - that's a good opportunity to practice so that if you
go somewhere and they say - you can stay on the gas dock tonight (gas
docks are often fixed docks), and BTW we have 6.5 foot tides and it's
high tide now (and your boat is about even with the dock at that
point) you have some clue as to how to proceed.

It may be easier to have floating docks (although I always have to
have a step stool on the dock to get off our boat if there are
floating docks), but unless you never intend to go anywhere outside
your own marina (and if that is so - why even have a boat), then you
need to know stuff like how to tie the boat up in a variety of
situations - face dock, or slip with a 4 point tie, floating dock or
fixed dock, cleats or pilings.


grandma Rosalie

Rosalie,

I think this is a good subject to explore in more detail. Our boat is
in a marina with floating docks, so this is something we've never had
to deal with. How _do_ you tie up to a fixed dock with an extreme
tidal range?

Don W.



In any case - my point is - if you know how to secure a boat to a
fixed dock (and IMHO you SHOULD know) it is perfectly possible to do
so without a problem even with a high tide. All those shrimp boats
in SC and GA and northern FL with 6 to 8 foot tides - most of them are
at fixed docks. We are at a fixed concrete dock here in Marathon with
about a 2 foot normal tide. (I think they have fixed docks here
mostly because of the hurricane season.)

So you should know how to have the boat safely in the slip even in an
extra high or extra low tide. I think that's something that a
sailor/boater should know. If you have a fixed dock and a tide that
isn't too great - that's a good opportunity to practice so that if you
go somewhere and they say - you can stay on the gas dock tonight (gas
docks are often fixed docks), and BTW we have 6.5 foot tides and it's
high tide now (and your boat is about even with the dock at that
point) you have some clue as to how to proceed.

It may be easier to have floating docks (although I always have to
have a step stool on the dock to get off our boat if there are
floating docks), but unless you never intend to go anywhere outside
your own marina (and if that is so - why even have a boat), then you
need to know stuff like how to tie the boat up in a variety of
situations - face dock, or slip with a 4 point tie, floating dock or
fixed dock, cleats or pilings.


grandma Rosalie

x-no-archive:yes

Don W wrote:

Rosalie,

I think this is a good subject to explore in more detail. Our boat is
in a marina with floating docks, so this is something we've never had
to deal with. How _do_ you tie up to a fixed dock with an extreme
tidal range?

Don W.

Two words - SPRING LINES

Bob does this automatically and I'm not usually involved so I don't
know the exact geometry, but every time we do this we use spring
lines. I'm sure someone else can explain.


In any case - my point is - if you know how to secure a boat to a
fixed dock (and IMHO you SHOULD know) it is perfectly possible to do
so without a problem even with a high tide. All those shrimp boats
in SC and GA and northern FL with 6 to 8 foot tides - most of them are
at fixed docks. We are at a fixed concrete dock here in Marathon with
about a 2 foot normal tide. (I think they have fixed docks here
mostly because of the hurricane season.)

So you should know how to have the boat safely in the slip even in an
extra high or extra low tide. I think that's something that a
sailor/boater should know. If you have a fixed dock and a tide that
isn't too great - that's a good opportunity to practice so that if you
go somewhere and they say - you can stay on the gas dock tonight (gas
docks are often fixed docks), and BTW we have 6.5 foot tides and it's
high tide now (and your boat is about even with the dock at that
point) you have some clue as to how to proceed.

It may be easier to have floating docks (although I always have to
have a step stool on the dock to get off our boat if there are
floating docks), but unless you never intend to go anywhere outside
your own marina (and if that is so - why even have a boat), then you
need to know stuff like how to tie the boat up in a variety of
situations - face dock, or slip with a 4 point tie, floating dock or
fixed dock, cleats or pilings.


grandma Rosalie

grandma Rosalie

x-no-archive:yes

Don W wrote:

Rosalie,

I think this is a good subject to explore in more detail. Our boat is
in a marina with floating docks, so this is something we've never had
to deal with. How _do_ you tie up to a fixed dock with an extreme
tidal range?

Don W.

Two words - SPRING LINES

Bob does this automatically and I'm not usually involved so I don't
know the exact geometry, but every time we do this we use spring
lines. I'm sure someone else can explain.


In any case - my point is - if you know how to secure a boat to a
fixed dock (and IMHO you SHOULD know) it is perfectly possible to do
so without a problem even with a high tide. All those shrimp boats
in SC and GA and northern FL with 6 to 8 foot tides - most of them are
at fixed docks. We are at a fixed concrete dock here in Marathon with
about a 2 foot normal tide. (I think they have fixed docks here
mostly because of the hurricane season.)

So you should know how to have the boat safely in the slip even in an
extra high or extra low tide. I think that's something that a
sailor/boater should know. If you have a fixed dock and a tide that
isn't too great - that's a good opportunity to practice so that if you
go somewhere and they say - you can stay on the gas dock tonight (gas
docks are often fixed docks), and BTW we have 6.5 foot tides and it's
high tide now (and your boat is about even with the dock at that
point) you have some clue as to how to proceed.

It may be easier to have floating docks (although I always have to
have a step stool on the dock to get off our boat if there are
floating docks), but unless you never intend to go anywhere outside
your own marina (and if that is so - why even have a boat), then you
need to know stuff like how to tie the boat up in a variety of
situations - face dock, or slip with a 4 point tie, floating dock or
fixed dock, cleats or pilings.


grandma Rosalie

grandma Rosalie

Don W wrote in message
news
Rosalie,

I think this is a good subject to explore in more detail. Our
boat is
in a marina with floating docks, so this is something we've
never had
to deal with. How _do_ you tie up to a fixed dock with an
extreme
tidal range?

There are several quaysides with an 8 metre (25 ft?) tidal range
around French Brittany and the British Channel islands.

Moor alongside a ladder! Use that with a temporary spring line
while you sort out your ropes. Otherwise have a ladder aboard, or
learn to fly, or trust the guys ashore to tie good knots.

Use bow and stern ropes plus fore and aft springs. Tie off at the
quay, and make any adjustments at the boat end of the warp. Make
sure the boat end can be adjusted when it's under strain.

Each rope should be at least twice as long as the range of tide.
From top to bottom tide the rope then has to accommodate 10% of
stretch. Do this by allowing 10% slack at high tide, or by using
nylon rope with 2 or 3% slack. Have a griping board between the
vessel and quay, and rig light lines to ensure the slack in your
mooring lines doesn't lift your fenders or the griping board as
the tide falls.

JimB
Yacht Rapaz, sadly for sale, to help pay for that lovely Greek
seaside house we've just bought.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jim.bae...cification.htm
jim(dot)baerselman(at)ntlworld(dot)com

Don W wrote in message
news
Rosalie,

I think this is a good subject to explore in more detail. Our
boat is
in a marina with floating docks, so this is something we've
never had
to deal with. How _do_ you tie up to a fixed dock with an
extreme
tidal range?

There are several quaysides with an 8 metre (25 ft?) tidal range
around French Brittany and the British Channel islands.

Moor alongside a ladder! Use that with a temporary spring line
while you sort out your ropes. Otherwise have a ladder aboard, or
learn to fly, or trust the guys ashore to tie good knots.

Use bow and stern ropes plus fore and aft springs. Tie off at the
quay, and make any adjustments at the boat end of the warp. Make
sure the boat end can be adjusted when it's under strain.

Each rope should be at least twice as long as the range of tide.
From top to bottom tide the rope then has to accommodate 10% of
stretch. Do this by allowing 10% slack at high tide, or by using
nylon rope with 2 or 3% slack. Have a griping board between the
vessel and quay, and rig light lines to ensure the slack in your
mooring lines doesn't lift your fenders or the griping board as
the tide falls.

JimB
Yacht Rapaz, sadly for sale, to help pay for that lovely Greek
seaside house we've just bought.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jim.bae...cification.htm
jim(dot)baerselman(at)ntlworld(dot)com

x-no-archive:yes



"JimB" wrote:


Don W wrote in message
news
Rosalie,

I think this is a good subject to explore in more detail. Our
boat is
in a marina with floating docks, so this is something we've
never had
to deal with. How _do_ you tie up to a fixed dock with an
extreme
tidal range?

There are several quaysides with an 8 metre (25 ft?) tidal range
around French Brittany and the British Channel islands.

Moor alongside a ladder! Use that with a temporary spring line
while you sort out your ropes. Otherwise have a ladder aboard, or
learn to fly, or trust the guys ashore to tie good knots.

Use bow and stern ropes plus fore and aft springs. Tie off at the
quay, and make any adjustments at the boat end of the warp. Make
sure the boat end can be adjusted when it's under strain.

Each rope should be at least twice as long as the range of tide.
From top to bottom tide the rope then has to accommodate 10% of
stretch. Do this by allowing 10% slack at high tide, or by using
nylon rope with 2 or 3% slack. Have a griping board between the
vessel and quay, and rig light lines to ensure the slack in your
mooring lines doesn't lift your fenders or the griping board as
the tide falls.

JimB
Yacht Rapaz, sadly for sale, to help pay for that lovely Greek
seaside house we've just bought.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jim.bae...cification.htm
jim(dot)baerselman(at)ntlworld(dot)com

Thanks Jim - I knew someone would be able to explain this better than
I could. What is a griping board in American English?

When we are moving from marina to marina on a daily basis, we have
been told by a dock person that we should give the dock person the
looped end of the line so that they could just drop it over the cleat
or piling and wouldn't have to tie it off.

But coming into an unknown (or even a known) transient slip, Bob
usually has lines rigged on all four corners and in the middle (with
additional lines on the pin rail and accessible - I can NOT understand
these people who come into a slip and after they get INTO the slip,
they go diving into lockers after the lines like they've never tied up
in a slip before and didn't realize that they'd need lines), and
usually he puts the loop end on a cleat in the boat and gives the free
(bitter?) end to the dock person. That's so that we know the line is
attached to something on the boat, and that the boat person handling
the lines (me) won't have to let go of the line due to excess pressure
from wind and/or current.

So it's 6 of 1 half a dozen of the other.

In any case, when we get more or less secured to the dock, Bob adjusts
the lines so that they loop around the pilings and return to the boat
so we have control of both ends of the line. That way, we can cast
off again without getting off the boat to untie the line, plus the
lines can be adjusted from the boat if necessary.

In the case of cleats on the dock (which is often the case with
floating docks), just before we leave, Bob loops the line off the
cleat and gives me both ends so that when we are ready to go I can
(hopefully) flip it off the cleat.

At our home slip, we have the loop end on the dock, and chafe
protection on the line where it goes through the chock or whatever so
that I know where to cleat it off in the boat.

In our home slip, with only about 2 feet of tide, we normally have at
least 10 lines rigged.

2 on the bow
2 bow spring lines to amidships
2 stern lines
2 stern spring lines to amidships
2 breast lines

and then we may add additional longer spring lines. When we cast off,
we loop the lines on the pilings or throw them onto the dock in an
order that depends on where the wind is coming from (usually some of
the lines will be slack so we release them first).

At a transient slip, Bob watches the current after we come in (have
learned this the hard way) and depending on the tide state, he
projects which way the current will be going when we will be leaving.
If there is a LOT of current (like for instance the Ft. Pierce
municipal marina) we will AFAP leave at slack tide. Sometimes we have
to wait and leave at high tide anyway (like Hilton Head) in order to
get out of the marina.

Then depending on which lines have the most strain and other factors
(like is there a shoal right in front of us so we have to back up and
turn before we can head out), he fixes the lines so that I can cast
them off (I'm not very good at flipping lines) - and he has now
learned to give me explicit instructions about everything that is
supposed to happen before I leave the cockpit as he cannot assume that
I will know what he intends and both of us are a bit deaf so yelling
instructions over the engine is NOT a viable option - and then we do
whatever he has programmed and cast off.


grandma Rosalie
http://www12.virtualtourist.com/m/4a9c6/

x-no-archive:yes



"JimB" wrote:


Don W wrote in message
news
Rosalie,

I think this is a good subject to explore in more detail. Our
boat is
in a marina with floating docks, so this is something we've
never had
to deal with. How _do_ you tie up to a fixed dock with an
extreme
tidal range?

There are several quaysides with an 8 metre (25 ft?) tidal range
around French Brittany and the British Channel islands.

Moor alongside a ladder! Use that with a temporary spring line
while you sort out your ropes. Otherwise have a ladder aboard, or
learn to fly, or trust the guys ashore to tie good knots.

Use bow and stern ropes plus fore and aft springs. Tie off at the
quay, and make any adjustments at the boat end of the warp. Make
sure the boat end can be adjusted when it's under strain.

Each rope should be at least twice as long as the range of tide.
From top to bottom tide the rope then has to accommodate 10% of
stretch. Do this by allowing 10% slack at high tide, or by using
nylon rope with 2 or 3% slack. Have a griping board between the
vessel and quay, and rig light lines to ensure the slack in your
mooring lines doesn't lift your fenders or the griping board as
the tide falls.

JimB
Yacht Rapaz, sadly for sale, to help pay for that lovely Greek
seaside house we've just bought.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jim.bae...cification.htm
jim(dot)baerselman(at)ntlworld(dot)com

Thanks Jim - I knew someone would be able to explain this better than
I could. What is a griping board in American English?

When we are moving from marina to marina on a daily basis, we have
been told by a dock person that we should give the dock person the
looped end of the line so that they could just drop it over the cleat
or piling and wouldn't have to tie it off.

But coming into an unknown (or even a known) transient slip, Bob
usually has lines rigged on all four corners and in the middle (with
additional lines on the pin rail and accessible - I can NOT understand
these people who come into a slip and after they get INTO the slip,
they go diving into lockers after the lines like they've never tied up
in a slip before and didn't realize that they'd need lines), and
usually he puts the loop end on a cleat in the boat and gives the free
(bitter?) end to the dock person. That's so that we know the line is
attached to something on the boat, and that the boat person handling
the lines (me) won't have to let go of the line due to excess pressure
from wind and/or current.

So it's 6 of 1 half a dozen of the other.

In any case, when we get more or less secured to the dock, Bob adjusts
the lines so that they loop around the pilings and return to the boat
so we have control of both ends of the line. That way, we can cast
off again without getting off the boat to untie the line, plus the
lines can be adjusted from the boat if necessary.

In the case of cleats on the dock (which is often the case with
floating docks), just before we leave, Bob loops the line off the
cleat and gives me both ends so that when we are ready to go I can
(hopefully) flip it off the cleat.

At our home slip, we have the loop end on the dock, and chafe
protection on the line where it goes through the chock or whatever so
that I know where to cleat it off in the boat.

In our home slip, with only about 2 feet of tide, we normally have at
least 10 lines rigged.

2 on the bow
2 bow spring lines to amidships
2 stern lines
2 stern spring lines to amidships
2 breast lines

and then we may add additional longer spring lines. When we cast off,
we loop the lines on the pilings or throw them onto the dock in an
order that depends on where the wind is coming from (usually some of
the lines will be slack so we release them first).

At a transient slip, Bob watches the current after we come in (have
learned this the hard way) and depending on the tide state, he
projects which way the current will be going when we will be leaving.
If there is a LOT of current (like for instance the Ft. Pierce
municipal marina) we will AFAP leave at slack tide. Sometimes we have
to wait and leave at high tide anyway (like Hilton Head) in order to
get out of the marina.

Then depending on which lines have the most strain and other factors
(like is there a shoal right in front of us so we have to back up and
turn before we can head out), he fixes the lines so that I can cast
them off (I'm not very good at flipping lines) - and he has now
learned to give me explicit instructions about everything that is
supposed to happen before I leave the cockpit as he cannot assume that
I will know what he intends and both of us are a bit deaf so yelling
instructions over the engine is NOT a viable option - and then we do
whatever he has programmed and cast off.


grandma Rosalie
http://www12.virtualtourist.com/m/4a9c6/

Rosalie B. wrote in message
...

All snipped - see new subject

Ropes and Docking

JimB