Licence to hire speedboat in Greece/Spain
 

25hp on open seas is not "low powered", it's dismall and probably
unsafe.

What utter crap - you are confirming what we already suspect, ie that you
don't really know what you are talking about.

Licence to hire speedboat in Greece/Spain
 

Steve writes:

Simon Brooke , wrote:

Steve writes:

If you know your colregs and basic
navigation, you'll get through the exam without difficulty. If you
don't, I don't much want you on the water in a powerful boat, with or
without a certificate.

Define "powerful".

More than four horsepower.

If you don't want to get one, stick to hiring low-powered boats.

25hp on open seas is not "low powered", it's dismall and probably
unsafe.

Don't be ****ing ridiculous! My 26 foot ocean capable boat has 8
horsepower, and is grossly overpowered - half throttle is ten knots
and anything over half throttle she just squats. Four would be
adequate in all conditions, and with a good inboard installation and a
good prop two horsepower could probably drive her at hull speed. My
father's similar 22 foot boat forty years ago had two horsepower and
it was never not powerful enough.

Perhaps the Greeks rebadge their outboards then g, and I was
conned into paying for a 25hp when in fact it was a 0.25hp. lol.

Seriously though, perhaps the engine's torque figures make a
difference, or the propeller size, etc?

Of course they do. Bigger, slower turning propellors tend to get
better grip on the water at displacement speeds and consequently
transfer more thrust. There's physics to this which I confess I don't
know, but certainly most modern outboards are not propped to power
displacement boats - you need a special propellor and sometimes a
special gearbox as well. But most of the outboard makers seem to sell
'sail' versions of their outboards, which basically means 'propped for
displacement hulls'.

If you think you can't go into open water with less than 25 horse
power, you aren't safe to go into open water at all.

That's not quite what I said, I'll explain further.
www.skiathosinfo.com/islandmap.htm
I hired a 40hp boat from a place in the bay to the South called
"Vasillias" which is indicated on the map. The island had winds
coming in from the North so I was advised to remain within two
points at either side, from Krasa to the west and the Is Arkos to
the east.

Please don't think this is snide.

If you experience this sort of difficulties at your level of skill,
don't you think a course in boat handling would actually be useful to
you? You're perfectly right, closing a lee shore in a rising wind with
a dirty slop running is dangerous, and can lead to loss of life.

Once re-started, I managed to keep my family as forward as
possible and alternate between backing off throttle but
maintaining some speed up the swell and then accelerating down
the other side. Eventually I brought us 'behind' the shelter
offered by the two small islands (Mikri Tsougria and Megati
Tsougria) at which point the sea was more or less dead calm
again.

Getting into the shelter of the off-lying islands is probably what you
should have done in the first place. As you found, conditions will be
a lot less difficult under the lee of the land, and you can either get
ashore there or ride out the blow.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'Victories are not solutions.'
;; John Hume, Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland 1/2/95
;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have deserved it so much

Licence to hire speedboat in Greece/Spain
 

Steve writes:

Simon Brooke , wrote:

Steve writes:

If you know your colregs and basic
navigation, you'll get through the exam without difficulty. If you
don't, I don't much want you on the water in a powerful boat, with or
without a certificate.

Define "powerful".

More than four horsepower.

If you don't want to get one, stick to hiring low-powered boats.

25hp on open seas is not "low powered", it's dismall and probably
unsafe.

Don't be ****ing ridiculous! My 26 foot ocean capable boat has 8
horsepower, and is grossly overpowered - half throttle is ten knots
and anything over half throttle she just squats. Four would be
adequate in all conditions, and with a good inboard installation and a
good prop two horsepower could probably drive her at hull speed. My
father's similar 22 foot boat forty years ago had two horsepower and
it was never not powerful enough.

Perhaps the Greeks rebadge their outboards then g, and I was
conned into paying for a 25hp when in fact it was a 0.25hp. lol.

Seriously though, perhaps the engine's torque figures make a
difference, or the propeller size, etc?

Of course they do. Bigger, slower turning propellors tend to get
better grip on the water at displacement speeds and consequently
transfer more thrust. There's physics to this which I confess I don't
know, but certainly most modern outboards are not propped to power
displacement boats - you need a special propellor and sometimes a
special gearbox as well. But most of the outboard makers seem to sell
'sail' versions of their outboards, which basically means 'propped for
displacement hulls'.

If you think you can't go into open water with less than 25 horse
power, you aren't safe to go into open water at all.

That's not quite what I said, I'll explain further.
www.skiathosinfo.com/islandmap.htm
I hired a 40hp boat from a place in the bay to the South called
"Vasillias" which is indicated on the map. The island had winds
coming in from the North so I was advised to remain within two
points at either side, from Krasa to the west and the Is Arkos to
the east.

Please don't think this is snide.

If you experience this sort of difficulties at your level of skill,
don't you think a course in boat handling would actually be useful to
you? You're perfectly right, closing a lee shore in a rising wind with
a dirty slop running is dangerous, and can lead to loss of life.

Once re-started, I managed to keep my family as forward as
possible and alternate between backing off throttle but
maintaining some speed up the swell and then accelerating down
the other side. Eventually I brought us 'behind' the shelter
offered by the two small islands (Mikri Tsougria and Megati
Tsougria) at which point the sea was more or less dead calm
again.

Getting into the shelter of the off-lying islands is probably what you
should have done in the first place. As you found, conditions will be
a lot less difficult under the lee of the land, and you can either get
ashore there or ride out the blow.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'Victories are not solutions.'
;; John Hume, Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland 1/2/95
;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have deserved it so much

Licence to hire speedboat in Greece/Spain
 

"Steve" wrote in message
...
You've just confirmed that you are simply rude and unable to
maintain a civilised discussion. Chances are that I shan't bother
responding to you again.

I will be really offended.

Licence to hire speedboat in Greece/Spain
 

"Steve" wrote in message
...
You've just confirmed that you are simply rude and unable to
maintain a civilised discussion. Chances are that I shan't bother
responding to you again.

I will be really offended.

Licence to hire speedboat in Greece/Spain
 

Steve writes:

Simon Brooke , wrote:

Steve writes:

If you think you can't go into open water with less than 25 horse
power, you aren't safe to go into open water at all.

That's not quite what I said, I'll explain further.
www.skiathosinfo.com/islandmap.htm
I hired a 40hp boat from a place in the bay to the South called
"Vasillias" which is indicated on the map. The island had winds
coming in from the North so I was advised to remain within two
points at either side, from Krasa to the west and the Is Arkos to
the east.

Please don't think this is snide.

If you experience this sort of difficulties at your level of skill,
don't you think a course in boat handling would actually be useful to
you?

"Seriously, could I have done any better while holding a
certificate?"

Seriously, you could have done a lot better if you'd known to get into
shelter earlier, which the course you so deride would probably have
taught you. You put the lives of two other people at risk because you
had not the skills to cope with the situation you were in. Wouldn't it
be a good thing to make sure, next time you re in that situation, you
do have the skils? I agree with you that a bit of paper by itself is
worth very little, but the knowledge the course should impart might be
worth a lot.

Getting into the shelter of the off-lying islands is probably what you
should have done in the first place.

How could I have done that "in the first place"?

Headed for them immediately rather than running for a lee shore?

As you found, conditions will be
a lot less difficult under the lee of the land, and you can either get
ashore there or ride out the blow.

There was nowhere to "get offshore" and had I decided to "ride
out the blow" I would likely have sank the boat and drowned with
my family.

Then you shouldn't have been in the boat in the first place.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; If God does not write LISP, God writes some code so similar to
;; LISP as to make no difference.

Licence to hire speedboat in Greece/Spain
 

Steve writes:

Simon Brooke , wrote:

Steve writes:

If you think you can't go into open water with less than 25 horse
power, you aren't safe to go into open water at all.

That's not quite what I said, I'll explain further.
www.skiathosinfo.com/islandmap.htm
I hired a 40hp boat from a place in the bay to the South called
"Vasillias" which is indicated on the map. The island had winds
coming in from the North so I was advised to remain within two
points at either side, from Krasa to the west and the Is Arkos to
the east.

Please don't think this is snide.

If you experience this sort of difficulties at your level of skill,
don't you think a course in boat handling would actually be useful to
you?

"Seriously, could I have done any better while holding a
certificate?"

Seriously, you could have done a lot better if you'd known to get into
shelter earlier, which the course you so deride would probably have
taught you. You put the lives of two other people at risk because you
had not the skills to cope with the situation you were in. Wouldn't it
be a good thing to make sure, next time you re in that situation, you
do have the skils? I agree with you that a bit of paper by itself is
worth very little, but the knowledge the course should impart might be
worth a lot.

Getting into the shelter of the off-lying islands is probably what you
should have done in the first place.

How could I have done that "in the first place"?

Headed for them immediately rather than running for a lee shore?

As you found, conditions will be
a lot less difficult under the lee of the land, and you can either get
ashore there or ride out the blow.

There was nowhere to "get offshore" and had I decided to "ride
out the blow" I would likely have sank the boat and drowned with
my family.

Then you shouldn't have been in the boat in the first place.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; If God does not write LISP, God writes some code so similar to
;; LISP as to make no difference.

Licence to hire speedboat in Greece/Spain
 

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
However you
should consider the case of the family who rented a powerboat on Lake
Garda recently,

Is that the case where half the family drowned, and the survivors are suing
the little town near Riva (name forgotten) because the speedboat company did
not tell them that the lake was deeper than wading depth?

Licence to hire speedboat in Greece/Spain
 

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
...
However you
should consider the case of the family who rented a powerboat on Lake
Garda recently,

Is that the case where half the family drowned, and the survivors are suing
the little town near Riva (name forgotten) because the speedboat company did
not tell them that the lake was deeper than wading depth?

Licence to hire speedboat in Greece/Spain
 

Steve wrote in message
...

No, it's a bit like the equal disdain I have for the current
extortion applied to passing the UK driving test. Most
youngsters
[read: parents] these days are paying the best part of £1,000
which is *ridiculous* and yet *another* nu-labor (sic) method
of
collecting revenue / discouraging motorists while ignoring the
*real* issues behind our overcrowded roads.

/rant

Yes, that's a rant. You don't have to pay for a driving course to
take the test. But doing so considerably increases the
probability of passing the test. Same with power boat
certificates.

who's the best judge of where limits (speed -
or power in this case, it's surrogate) should be applied?
Visitors? who seek pleasure - or local residents? who suffer
the
consequences (of accidents).

A system which promotes driver responsibility rather than
drone-style rule compliance.. Since when could a bloody sheep
drive sensibly?

Now that's not a logical answer to the question, it's a bit like
another rant . . .

I've seen enough speed related water deaths in Nidri (Greece,
Levkas - 3 to 5 a year for each of ten years) to be convinced
that something needs to be done.
Do you know
how to treat a windsurfer who is overtaking your powerboat?

Nope, but at a guess I'd throttle off slightly, move away
slowly
where possible and make damn sure I did not take the wind from
his* sail as I imagine the latter would upset him* a tad..

No. Maintain course and speed so he can plan how best to avoid
you. As overtaking vessel the windsurfer has to keep clear of
you. Changes to your velocity could negate his plan, thus causing
a collision.

Do
you know enough to predict the reactions of a boat which
you're
approaching which is going to alter course to avoid a
potential
collision with a third party?

I have very good 'natural' spacial awareness and hand-to-eye
coordination, so I think I'd probably do ok. And I'd try to do
so
with full consideration for not putting others' more at risk.
First rule is "don't panic". :)

Not good enough. That approach didn't work in the past, so rules
were invented.
The paradox was that the majority of drivers thought they had
above average ability. The reality was that most were average -
by definition.

Make my question more simple. You're converging with a similar
power boat coming from your left.
a. How do you know whether (if nothing's done) you're on a
collision course?
b. If you're on a collision course, what would you do?

Answers in three seconds please . . .

JimB