"Steve" wrote in message
...
I've yet to meet anyone who's been pulled over by cops while on a
boat.

lol

Yet again, you are revealing that you have virtually no experience in
driving motorboats. If you did, you would know that motorboats regularaly
get pulled over by the authorities - especially in Spain.

The mere fact that you are asking this question on a sailing group suggests
that you have very little experience with boats. If you did, you would know
better than to ask on a sailing group as you would know that most sailors
have a dim view of motorboaters, particularly obviously irresponsible ones
like you.

Steve wrote in message
news
"Ric" , wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
You sound like a perfect example of why licences are sensibly
required by
these countries. Every year in the Med people are killed by
holidaymakers
who hire speedboats with either false qualifications, or hire
them from
dodgy cowboys who don't check.

It's only water.

Water, with people swimming in it

Other people driving around on it

All of whom could be damaged by your activities, even though you
may know all your right of way rules and be an incredibly
responsible driver

But they won't be covered by your boat's insurance, in most
countries, if you don't have a valid certificate of competence

Which means you'll be liable (as well as the boat hirer) and (in
many countries, such as Greece) you'll be detained until you put
a deposit into court big enough to cover any possible claims.

But perhaps you're rich enough (and have enough time) to cover
that risk yourself?

These are legal reasons and financial incentives, introduced for
the practical reason that the death and injury rates in
Mediterranean Greece and Spain involving higher speed vessels
(over 15 kts or so) are seen as excessive and a threat to
tourism. How effective these systems are at reducing accident
rates is not yet clear, but at least they ensure that those with
(valid) certificates are aware of the risk of collision and the
theory of how to avoid it.
--
JimB
Yacht Rapaz, sadly for sale:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jim.bae...cification.htm
jim(dot)baerselman(at)ntlworld(dot)com

Steve wrote in message
news
"Ric" , wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
You sound like a perfect example of why licences are sensibly
required by
these countries. Every year in the Med people are killed by
holidaymakers
who hire speedboats with either false qualifications, or hire
them from
dodgy cowboys who don't check.

It's only water.

Water, with people swimming in it

Other people driving around on it

All of whom could be damaged by your activities, even though you
may know all your right of way rules and be an incredibly
responsible driver

But they won't be covered by your boat's insurance, in most
countries, if you don't have a valid certificate of competence

Which means you'll be liable (as well as the boat hirer) and (in
many countries, such as Greece) you'll be detained until you put
a deposit into court big enough to cover any possible claims.

But perhaps you're rich enough (and have enough time) to cover
that risk yourself?

These are legal reasons and financial incentives, introduced for
the practical reason that the death and injury rates in
Mediterranean Greece and Spain involving higher speed vessels
(over 15 kts or so) are seen as excessive and a threat to
tourism. How effective these systems are at reducing accident
rates is not yet clear, but at least they ensure that those with
(valid) certificates are aware of the risk of collision and the
theory of how to avoid it.
--
JimB
Yacht Rapaz, sadly for sale:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jim.bae...cification.htm
jim(dot)baerselman(at)ntlworld(dot)com

Steve writes:

"Ric" , wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
news
It's only water.

That attitude is further confirmation that you shouldn't be allowed on it...

I have explained myself, you have not.

We sail.

Most people who sail have experience of people in high powered motor
boats who do not seem to know or abide by the IRPCS, and consequently
put our lives and our boats in danger. We don't much like this sort of
thing. Also, they create huge amounts of row, and often pass much too
close making much too much wash, and we don't much like that either.

Consequently, while I don't much like the idea of compulsory certificates
of competence, I equally don't like the idea of ignorant cowboys in
high-powered motor boats. If you know your colregs and basic
navigation, you'll get through the exam without difficulty. If you
don't, I don't much want you on the water in a powerful boat, with or
without a certificate.

If you don't want to get one, stick to hiring low-powered boats.

HTH. HAND.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; lovely alternative to rice.

Steve writes:

"Ric" , wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
news
It's only water.

That attitude is further confirmation that you shouldn't be allowed on it...

I have explained myself, you have not.

We sail.

Most people who sail have experience of people in high powered motor
boats who do not seem to know or abide by the IRPCS, and consequently
put our lives and our boats in danger. We don't much like this sort of
thing. Also, they create huge amounts of row, and often pass much too
close making much too much wash, and we don't much like that either.

Consequently, while I don't much like the idea of compulsory certificates
of competence, I equally don't like the idea of ignorant cowboys in
high-powered motor boats. If you know your colregs and basic
navigation, you'll get through the exam without difficulty. If you
don't, I don't much want you on the water in a powerful boat, with or
without a certificate.

If you don't want to get one, stick to hiring low-powered boats.

HTH. HAND.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; lovely alternative to rice.

"Steve" wrote in message
...


There is nothing I have posted here to indicate anything of the
sort.

Oh no, it is not irresponsible to post "If not, does anyone know where I
might obtain a template or
scan of an actual licence that I could use to overlay my own
details and print off. I'm sure these Greeks won't check too
closely so that would solve my problem".

Would you do the same for a car-driving licence?



What total rubbish, there is clearly no comparison. Also, FYI I
have some experience of boats already and I am sure I am quite
capable of driving a 50hp glorified dingy around a bay, while
following the map they provide and keeping within the correct
channels marked by buoys etc., without paying 500 quid to some
extortionist to prove it.

If you are as capable as you claim then you will have no difficulty passing
the test. You wouldn't have to go on a course at all.

And again, it's good enough for the UK so why should the Med be
any different?

Part of the reason is that in the Med there are a lot more users of
watercraft in coastal waters, and especially swimmers. Last year, just
locally to me in France, two swimmers and a spearfisherman were mown down by
motorboats ignorant of the rules. The year before, a sailing boat was cut in
two, and both the occupants killed, by a motorboat. There are accidents
every year casued by jetskiers. On every occasion, the inquest has
determined that the accident was caused by irresponsible people who were
unlicenced and untrained. Moreover, in one of the jetski accidents, they
found that the holidaymaker had a forged certificate. He was imprisoned, but
also the boss of the comany who hired him the jetski was give a two year
suspended jail sentence and a huge fine, because he had not checked
carefully enough the documentation. The same litany of accidents happens all
over the Med every summer.

The problem is, particularly acute with British holidaymakers who seem to
think that they don't need licences or training to drive a motorboat.



just about anything up to 200 feet long, powered by motor *or*
wind and he has no licence. So, despite his many years experience
he still would be unsuitable to hire a 50hp powered rowing boat?

No, if he has the experience that you claim for him, then probably he would
be safe. But you clearly do not have the experience - it is completely
evident by your comments and assumptions here.

"Steve" wrote in message
...


There is nothing I have posted here to indicate anything of the
sort.

Oh no, it is not irresponsible to post "If not, does anyone know where I
might obtain a template or
scan of an actual licence that I could use to overlay my own
details and print off. I'm sure these Greeks won't check too
closely so that would solve my problem".

Would you do the same for a car-driving licence?



What total rubbish, there is clearly no comparison. Also, FYI I
have some experience of boats already and I am sure I am quite
capable of driving a 50hp glorified dingy around a bay, while
following the map they provide and keeping within the correct
channels marked by buoys etc., without paying 500 quid to some
extortionist to prove it.

If you are as capable as you claim then you will have no difficulty passing
the test. You wouldn't have to go on a course at all.

And again, it's good enough for the UK so why should the Med be
any different?

Part of the reason is that in the Med there are a lot more users of
watercraft in coastal waters, and especially swimmers. Last year, just
locally to me in France, two swimmers and a spearfisherman were mown down by
motorboats ignorant of the rules. The year before, a sailing boat was cut in
two, and both the occupants killed, by a motorboat. There are accidents
every year casued by jetskiers. On every occasion, the inquest has
determined that the accident was caused by irresponsible people who were
unlicenced and untrained. Moreover, in one of the jetski accidents, they
found that the holidaymaker had a forged certificate. He was imprisoned, but
also the boss of the comany who hired him the jetski was give a two year
suspended jail sentence and a huge fine, because he had not checked
carefully enough the documentation. The same litany of accidents happens all
over the Med every summer.

The problem is, particularly acute with British holidaymakers who seem to
think that they don't need licences or training to drive a motorboat.



just about anything up to 200 feet long, powered by motor *or*
wind and he has no licence. So, despite his many years experience
he still would be unsuitable to hire a 50hp powered rowing boat?

No, if he has the experience that you claim for him, then probably he would
be safe. But you clearly do not have the experience - it is completely
evident by your comments and assumptions here.

"Steve" wrote in message
...
"Ric" , wrote:
I am aware of that, it's called snobbery. Seen it several times
during Cowes week and it's pathetic.

It is not snobbery. Some motorboaters are extremely considerate to sailors,
and I and most other sailors have nothing whatsoever against them. But if
you drive a huge noisy smelly motorboat directly by a sailing boat, causing
a huge wake, you obviously will not be popular. If you are on a motorboat,
you don't realise how noisy and smelly they are, but if you are sailing you
do.



Nothing obvious in respect of my sailing/boating/responsibility
has been revealed here. What has been revealed is my utter
disdain reflected in a silly system which clearly requires
updating. There ought to be some sort of "permit" available to
those with provable experience gained in a non-licence requiring
country like the UK.

I agree - I think UK should force all motorboaters to get a licence and
bring them in line with the rest of Europe. Sure, if you want to drive in UK
waters you can without training. But if you want to drive in Spanish and
French waters, you should have the same level of training as the locals.

In Albania, to get a car-driving licence, you just need to sit in the back
of the car and watch the instructor give a demonstration for about an hour.
Then you pay a fee, and you get your driving licence. Do you think an
Albanian driving licence should be valid in UK?

"Steve" wrote in message
...
"Ric" , wrote:
I am aware of that, it's called snobbery. Seen it several times
during Cowes week and it's pathetic.

It is not snobbery. Some motorboaters are extremely considerate to sailors,
and I and most other sailors have nothing whatsoever against them. But if
you drive a huge noisy smelly motorboat directly by a sailing boat, causing
a huge wake, you obviously will not be popular. If you are on a motorboat,
you don't realise how noisy and smelly they are, but if you are sailing you
do.



Nothing obvious in respect of my sailing/boating/responsibility
has been revealed here. What has been revealed is my utter
disdain reflected in a silly system which clearly requires
updating. There ought to be some sort of "permit" available to
those with provable experience gained in a non-licence requiring
country like the UK.

I agree - I think UK should force all motorboaters to get a licence and
bring them in line with the rest of Europe. Sure, if you want to drive in UK
waters you can without training. But if you want to drive in Spanish and
French waters, you should have the same level of training as the locals.

In Albania, to get a car-driving licence, you just need to sit in the back
of the car and watch the instructor give a demonstration for about an hour.
Then you pay a fee, and you get your driving licence. Do you think an
Albanian driving licence should be valid in UK?

Having followed this thread ad nausea I believe we should make every effort
to help this chap get a fake licence - hopefully he will end up rotting in a
Greek jail which is rather a fitting end for someone like
him................






"Steve" wrote in message
...
"Ric" , wrote:


"Steve" wrote in message
.. .
I've yet to meet anyone who's been pulled over by cops while on a
boat.

lol

Yet again, you are revealing that you have virtually no experience in
driving motorboats. If you did, you would know that motorboats regularaly
get pulled over by the authorities - especially in Spain.

I have no experience in Spain, some in Greece off a variety of
Islands but none off the mainland. Never been pulled yet.

Perhaps I don't do anything wrong.

The mere fact that you are asking this question on a sailing group
suggests
that you have very little experience with boats. If you did, you would
know
better than to ask on a sailing group as you would know that most sailors
have a dim view of motorboaters,

I am aware of that, it's called snobbery. Seen it several times
during Cowes week and it's pathetic.

particularly obviously irresponsible ones
like you.

Nothing obvious in respect of my sailing/boating/responsibility
has been revealed here. What has been revealed is my utter
disdain reflected in a silly system which clearly requires
updating. There ought to be some sort of "permit" available to
those with provable experience gained in a non-licence requiring
country like the UK. Said permit should cost no more than a
reasonable admin charge.