Sailing qualifications - US
 

dougking opined:
There are some skills in cruising that are not needed in racing, but
anyone who thinks racing doesn't develop a full set of seamanship
skills has simply not payed attention.


Doug,
I would maybe be inclined to agree with you in concept *IF* you were
talking about frequent open ocean racers. But if you think the big boat
racers on Long Island Sound who mostly have never been on the ocean
(except maybe the Block Island race, if that could count) are
automatically better sailors than guys that spend significant time ocean
voyaging...
From what I've observed, I wouldn't trust even sailing on the Sound
with many of those racers unless they were relagated to rail ballast.
Not saying I'm as experienced or even as good as many of them, but many
(certainly not all) I've observed while sailing are quite a few bricks
short of house with tempers like a longshoreman who's told his pay is
getting reduced. They are dangerous, arrogant, they take way too many
chances, and they will not necessarily follow the rules if they think
they can get away with it and that's just barely scratching the surface.
Judgment is, in my opinion, at least as important as skill and I'm not
just talking about judging the racecourse. In addition, races there in
the main regattas usually call the race in any kind of inclement
weather, so they do not get that experience. I think your comment above
was just too general to properly make your point.

Red

Sailing qualifications - US
 

wrote:

What do you "unlearn"?
For some racing sailors, it's difficult to relax while cruising

Rosalie B. wrote:
There's more than just relaxing unless you define relaxing as not
rushing to the destination but enjoying the journey.


Is it a matter of enjoying sailing? If an individual does not enjoy
sailing then they're not going to like cruising *or* racing. If they
do, then there is enjoyment to be found in both.

Yes enjoy sailing, but cruising doesn't really have an overabundance
of sailing in it which can be frustrating. And if the person has to
be beating someone else, then they are concentrated on the race and
not just on the sailing.

Maybe it is that they need to value sturdiness over lightness. To
pick sturdier materials.

I can tell that you're one of those "cruising only" sailors.

Well Duh. Except I'm not really a sailor or boater at all. Bob
wanted a boat, and so I come along. I do the navigation, and I know
HOW to sail the boat. And I've lived on the boat for 6 months at a
time and traveled on the boat. But I'd never call myself a sailor.
However, I was just speculating on what the difference would be going
from people I know who ARE sailors.

Breaking
stuff is slow. The surest way to lose a race is to have even minor
gear failure. And racers go out to sail & race in conditions that
cruisers stay home in.

I wouldn't agree with that. People who have our type boat are
perfectly happy in conditions that most racers and other cruisers turn
back in.

I really don't know anything about small sailboat racing except that
my niece and her husband do it, which is not much of a recommendation
to me. My niece was the one that was driving from Key West to Orlando
to meet her grandmother and family, and after lunch she turned the
wrong way and drove almost back to Key West before she noticed her
mistake.


And to have spares aboard in case something
breaks, and also to have the stuff on board that one needs to live
comfortably and not feel that they are camping out.


That's not a *sailing* skill, is it? Sounds like common sense plus a
slight amount of organization.

Most of the races that I've seen at close hand or read about, they
take everything off the boat except what they have to have on board. A
bucket rather than a head for instance.

grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html

Sailing qualifications - US
 

On Mar 1, 5:37 pm, wrote:
... Hmmm.... please don't take this as an insult, because I don't mean it
to be... but your racing did not teach you to prioritize wisely.
"Getting there" is a goal for both cruising & racing, but the effort/
reward ratio is very different.

Ha! Racing taught me to win. For the racer it may be that winning
isn't everything, but losing is worse than nothing. Yes, you've gotta
finish to win and you'll note I finished those passages and quickly.
By racing standards I prioritized just fine. I've never head a racer
talk about effort/reward ratios, but if I did it would just make the
racer in me salivate. We eat the weak ones.

IMO, the intersection
of day racing skills and long distance cruising skills isn't all that
big...

Day racing not so much; however I will say again that it's easy to see
the difference in skills between racers & cruisers when watching them
maneuver in close quarters (which is a pretty big part of cruising).

A big part of cruising? Depends, I suppose. I'm a sailing addict and
I take my cruiser out day sailing and push her a bit and I take some
pride in my sailing as such. However, cruising as I practice it is
about 10% sailing and 90% hanging on the anchor... I sail more than
most cruisers I know. Maneuvering in close quarters under sail is a
pretty rare event for the typical world cruiser. Maybe it's different
for you... I get the feeling that we are talking about very different
kinds of cruising. When I was a teenager I occasionally made off with
my fathers old engineless Tartan 27 for a weekend of cruising on Lake
Ontario. I sailed it single handed on and off docks and moorings as a
matter of course. In that kind of cruising small boat handling skills
learned racing do get exercised. But that kind of sailing, neat
though it can be, is only a very small part of the universe of
cruising.

And point-to-point racing, whether in the ocean or in sheltered
waters, is essentially the same as cruising except that risk/effort/
reward priorities are different...

No. I think that's just plain wrong within the context of long range
ocean cruising. The passage making is the smallest part of the
cruising for most of us.

-- Tom.

Sailing qualifications - US
 

Don White wrote:
"Samuel Murphy" wrote in message
...

They get all excited, too, if you steer right towards the yacht
club dock with the spinnaker haulin ass..

I was on a 40'er that did that once. Skipper wanted to show off and
the wind was exactly right
to shoot up the channel about 10 feet from the dock into the mooring
area. Fun, kinda stupid
but what's a 40' racing dinghy for if not to goof around on....
\

We did that on a 28' viking a few years ago. We were finishing a
race and as we quickly approached the dock flying the spinnaker,
discovered that I had wrapped the sheet around the winch once to many
times.
No way could we loosen it quickly to spill the air so the helmsman
whipped out a Spyderco knife and made short work of the line.
I learned my lesson that day.

Rolling hitches get rid of riding turns! That's racing for you! You lives
and you learns!

Sailing qualifications - US
 

No series of 'official' or 'required' for most recreational boaters in
the US. However, many states are now requiring a basic boaters
competency certified. This is really just the basic and talks to
needed 'safety' equipment, what those red and green things are in the
water as well as the dangers of drinking and driving.

These basic tests can be taken online or through a several agencies;
both private and public, e.g. USCG, USPS.

Beyond that, I know of three series of training. USCG has a series of
training that covers several topic. The USPS was formed many years
ago on the premise of training, and offers a series of courses
(perhaps 20 or so) up through off shore navigation.

Both of these are mostly 'book learning', but do give good and
traditional knowledge.

US Sailing also offers an extensive series of course, and they tend to
include more on-the-water experience. Some say that US Sailing tends
to be shorter on book learning, but the on the water is a key focus of
theirs.

Further, USPS has stepped forward to develop, in conjunction with US
Sailing, a series of Boat Operators Certificates. These go beyond the
book-learning to include on the water skills, and the higher version
of these will target satisfying UN Resolution 40, "International
Certificate for the Operation of Pleasure Craft". At this point, I am
not aware of an intention to have any of these levels become
'requirements'. However, the basic operators competency certificates
now in many states was driven by NASBLA; given that they have
accomplished this 1st step, it would not surprise me that they are
looking to drive additional step.

-al-



On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:08:03 GMT, "Dennis Pogson"
wrote:

Please excuse my ignorance in posing this question. As a UK sailor of many
years experience in racing and cruising yachts, I am curious to know, since
the subject rarely turns up, whether our US cousins have a similar series of
qualifications to those administered in the UK by the Royal Yachting
Association (Yachmaster, at various levels).

I am not extolling the virtues of such "official"qualifications, indeed many
UK sailors think they are less than useful, just curious to know if such
training and examination facilities exist in the US, as the subject never
seems to be discussed in this NG.

Dennis.

Sailing qualifications - US
 

" wrote:
By racing standards I prioritized just fine.

Apparently not. You seem to not prioritize at all. It's a question of
observing all relevant data, deciding what is going to contribute the
most to your goal (when racing, it is beating the others... what is it
when cruising?) and maximizing those factors.

For example, look at Frank & Julian Bethwaite (rather successful
racers I believe); spent a great deal of time & effort analyzing (and
then explaining in their book) exactly how to tell when wind shifts
are more important to the overall strategy of a particular race than
wind strength. It is a matter of what you prioritize.


I've never head a racer
talk about effort/reward ratios, but if I did it would just make the
racer in me salivate. We eat the weak ones.


Without setting the right priorities, you'd be far astern drooling on
yourself.




And point-to-point racing, whether in the ocean or in sheltered
waters, is essentially the same as cruising except that risk/effort/
reward priorities are different...


No. I think that's just plain wrong within the context of long range
ocean cruising. The passage making is the smallest part of the
cruising for most of us.

Did I say that racing is the same as passagemaking? Does preparation
play any part in racing? It sure does in cruising. Does study of
certain skills? Does getting the boat into the right place at the
right time (or within a reasonable time window)? How about not running
aground.... far more important in racing than cruising! Ditto for
playing the tides.

As for maneuvering in tight quarters, think for a minute. Take two!
If you leave port (or anchorage) at the beginning of every passage,
and enter port (or anchorage) at the end of every passage, that makes
maneuvering your boat around obstacles 2x as important as
passagemaking. The amount of time on passage may be much much greater,
but you maneuver twice as often.

Priorities!

DSK

Sailing qualifications - US
 

Salty said:
Perhaps in your home waters they call races for inclement weather. They
don't do
that up my way on the LIS. I often observe and photograph the local
racers since
I'm always out anyway. I remember one race in fairly wild weather... The
wind
and waves were picking up rapidly, and rain was coming down in buckets.
Then it
got bad. One of the boats radioed the commitee boat and advised that
"Lightning
is now hitting the water all around the boats. What do you want to do?." The
committee boat didn't reply for about a minute, and then came back with,
"Okay,
I'm shortening the course".

Sheeesh! Not where I mostly sail- western LIS. If it rains but the wind
remains ok they will stay out, but if it gets real windy or rains hard
they usually call it. While I can't see any reason to call a race for
most weather, lightning still bothers me after nearly getting hit as I
left a boat. The boat's electronics got fried, and another boat had the
hull pierced over a hundred times.

Red

Sailing qualifications - US
 

Doug,

You wrote:
... point-to-point racing, whether in the ocean or in sheltered
waters, is essentially the same as cruising ...

And then you wrote:
Did I say that racing is the same as passagemaking? ...

So, yeah, I thought you were saying the cruising is the same as point-
to-point racing. And I figured the only part of cruising __as I know
it__ that could be like point to point racing is passage making. I
must have been mistook. What did you mean?

Also, since we obviously aren't talking about the same kind of
cruising, it'd be helpful to me to know what kind of cruising you're
talking about. I think an example or two of the kind of cruises
you've taken would help me understand where you're coming from on
this.

-- Tom.

Sailing qualifications - US
 

On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 07:06:13 -0500, wrote:

Up my way, there's a lot of "Newport" influence. A lot of the local guys are
from there. They actually hurt their local racing organization by being so hard
core that newcomers are intimidated and don't stay after one or two races. I
raced as a kid, but although I'm good friends with the locals, I don't bother
being a part of their program. It is far too serious and they sort of suck the
joy out of it.

Translation:

The other boats were far better prepared, used the racing rules to
their advantage, had better tactics and strategy, and you got tired of
finishing at the back of the fleet. With the possible exception of
Annapolis and Newport, Long Island Sound racing is probably the best
on the east coast.

Sailing qualifications - US
 

On Mon, 03 Mar 2008 10:05:43 -0500, wrote:

Keep yapping, stinkpotter!

Dawg, if you are cruising Long Island Sound in the summer, then you
are under power almost as much as I am. But your diesel smells
better?