"Cindy Ballreich" wrote in message
...
It's important to remember that these numbers will only give you
a suggestion of how a boat will perform. In reality there are a
lot of factors that go into performance that these numbers can't
account for.

Yes, I understand this concept. I think it's probably safe to say that any
one number in and of itself is almost meaningless; these figures probably
become important through their interrelationship- the old "whole is greater
than the parts" idea. Sailboat gestalt, if you will A familiarity with
the basic concepts of aerodynamics is essential to flight, but one need not
be able to design a wing in order to understand how it works. I strongly
suspect that the same principle applies to nautical design and operation.

Wendy

The Tayana and the CL-P36 have almost identical base numbers, although
the TY37 is a bit faster (hull speed).

Interestingly and due to the displacment weight vs. volume, the Tayana
will carry more load while the CL will be a better boat in light and
flukey conditions and when 'light'. The CL will have better
acceleration than the TY37; but, the TY37 will definitely carry more
stores and still be able to sail on her design waterline. .
The CL at 16.5K lb. when loaded with a normal crusing 'load' will be
deeper in the water and hence will affect sailing performance more. The
TY37 at 22.5K lb will not depress the water line as much hence will
retain her sailing characteristics to a better extent .... plus the
motion comfort of the TY 37 is 25% better. The caveat is that some
sailors puke more with a faster reacting boats and some puke faster
with slower period boat. The CL having a faster roll period, the TY37
slower.
The CL will not need to be reefed as frequently as the TY37 as the CL
SA/D is lower, meaning a more easily driven hull. But when fully laden
those numbers should drastically shift in favor of the TY37.

So, your reply about the CL being a better passage boat will only be
true at the end of the passage when all food, fuel, etc. is used up.
Heavily loaded at the beginning of a passaage the CL will be very deep
(comparitively) in the water and wont perform as well as unladen...
and will always be slower. The TY37 will stay more 'consistent'.

Its not impossible to add a ton or two of 'stores' when voyaging, ....
added equipment, emergency food/equip, accumulated junk, rocks, shells,
funny hats, booze, etc.

As far as the TY being top-heay .... sometimes true and sometimes not
..... as it depends on the arrangement of the (teak) interior, teak
deck or not, wooden spars or aluminum and amount of teak that the
original owner specified or omitted topsides. Remember that TY37s are
'semi-custom' boats and the original purchaser had a lot of influence
on the final displacement 'loading' of the boat.

For comparisons of the 'numbers'
http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html go to part 1.

;-)

The Tayana and the CL-P36 have almost identical base numbers, although
the TY37 is a bit faster (hull speed).

Interestingly and due to the displacment weight vs. volume, the Tayana
will carry more load while the CL will be a better boat in light and
flukey conditions and when 'light'. The CL will have better
acceleration than the TY37; but, the TY37 will definitely carry more
stores and still be able to sail on her design waterline. .
The CL at 16.5K lb. when loaded with a normal crusing 'load' will be
deeper in the water and hence will affect sailing performance more. The
TY37 at 22.5K lb will not depress the water line as much hence will
retain her sailing characteristics to a better extent .... plus the
motion comfort of the TY 37 is 25% better. The caveat is that some
sailors puke more with a faster reacting boats and some puke faster
with slower period boat. The CL having a faster roll period, the TY37
slower.
The CL will not need to be reefed as frequently as the TY37 as the CL
SA/D is lower, meaning a more easily driven hull. But when fully laden
those numbers should drastically shift in favor of the TY37.

So, your reply about the CL being a better passage boat will only be
true at the end of the passage when all food, fuel, etc. is used up.
Heavily loaded at the beginning of a passaage the CL will be very deep
(comparitively) in the water and wont perform as well as unladen...
and will always be slower. The TY37 will stay more 'consistent'.

Its not impossible to add a ton or two of 'stores' when voyaging, ....
added equipment, emergency food/equip, accumulated junk, rocks, shells,
funny hats, booze, etc.

As far as the TY being top-heay .... sometimes true and sometimes not
..... as it depends on the arrangement of the (teak) interior, teak
deck or not, wooden spars or aluminum and amount of teak that the
original owner specified or omitted topsides. Remember that TY37s are
'semi-custom' boats and the original purchaser had a lot of influence
on the final displacement 'loading' of the boat.

For comparisons of the 'numbers'
http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html go to part 1.

;-)

I would recommend you stay away from the teak deck in a boat almost 20
years old. Teak decks, because of the screw holes (used to hold the
teak down), are prone to causing saturation and/or delamination of
the underlying deck core material unless the boat has been well
maintained for the entire 20 years. Just because it looks good
doesn't mean that the underlying deck and core are in good condition.
Repairing a saturated core is a major (read: expensive) job.

The PS Crealock is probably the best quality but, as you are seeing,
that comes at a high price. It's also pretty small inside (IMO).

Don't compromise on the boat. You can always stretch out the purchase
of the extras.

Eric

"Wendy" wrote in message ...
I had a close look at four boats today, all offered through brokers. The
experience was a pleasurable one; the brokers were pleasant enough and quite
helpful. The weather was a bit cool for my taste, though. Anyway, here's
what I looked over in the order in which I saw them, along with my thoughts:

Cheoy Lee Pedrick 36, 1985 Model: This boat is simply a very good looking
boat; it has loads of visual appeal and has been well-kept. The teak deck
is in quite good condition, as are the topside fittings and rigging.
Belowdecks, the engine is easily accessible, the cabin layout is sensible
and not ostentatiously ornate. She has a genset, which is a plus, but no
stove- a definite minus (one could easily be added, however). She's
radar-equipped, no SSB or GPS. She would be a fine live-aboard and coastal
cruiser, and should handle longer range cruising as the tankage is more than
adequate. I'd like to research Cheoy Lee's more; I liked this boat. At an
asking price of less than $60,000 she is well within my budget.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34, 1990 Model: Nice boat; she has a spartan
interior and a non-nonsense air about her. This boat is clearly designed
for ocean passages. Living aboard would not be difficult, but again the
boat is designed to go anywhere, not sit on a dock. At just under $100,000
she is out of my price range, so I didn't really seriously evaluate all her
features.

Cabo Rico 38, 1981 Model: She was once a nice boat, but neglect has sadly
hurt her. The below $80,000 price reflects the condition she's in; it would
take a lot of work to bring this boat up to snuff. The teak deck is shot.
I would take a pass on this boat; I don't want a project.

Tayana 37, 1982 Model: Wonderful boat, she has lots of room and is built
like a tank. She has a Perkins, which I like as I have lots of experience
with them. She's air-conditioned as well, a must in Texas. Very beamy and
not at all claustrophobic, the boat is clearly designed for comfort and
safety. She is equipped with a wind generator as well as a wind vane
steering system. She has no navigation station; the large quarterberth is
designed as an aft stateroom. I would prefer a nav station, but a fold down
table sort of thing could be easily added by a carpenter. Electronics
consists of an SSB; a radar and GPS system would have to be added (I am a
Garmin GPS junkie, I'll freely admit that Her asking price of $85,000 is
within my budget, though I would have to scrape for any planned add-ons.

It should be apparent that the first and last boats I looked at were the two
which appealed most to me. I have distinct reservations about a teak deck,
and while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is, she would no doubt provide years of performance and satisfaction.
The Tayana represents security, comfort, and hominess. She has many of the
features I would like in a boat, and probably represents the better
investment of the two. It's quite clear to me that I am not exactly sure
what I want at this point in time, although I am sure that as I continue to
research and actively start sailing that this will become self-evident
before I buy. I understand now why searching for a boat can take quite some
time.

Wendy

I would recommend you stay away from the teak deck in a boat almost 20
years old. Teak decks, because of the screw holes (used to hold the
teak down), are prone to causing saturation and/or delamination of
the underlying deck core material unless the boat has been well
maintained for the entire 20 years. Just because it looks good
doesn't mean that the underlying deck and core are in good condition.
Repairing a saturated core is a major (read: expensive) job.

The PS Crealock is probably the best quality but, as you are seeing,
that comes at a high price. It's also pretty small inside (IMO).

Don't compromise on the boat. You can always stretch out the purchase
of the extras.

Eric

"Wendy" wrote in message ...
I had a close look at four boats today, all offered through brokers. The
experience was a pleasurable one; the brokers were pleasant enough and quite
helpful. The weather was a bit cool for my taste, though. Anyway, here's
what I looked over in the order in which I saw them, along with my thoughts:

Cheoy Lee Pedrick 36, 1985 Model: This boat is simply a very good looking
boat; it has loads of visual appeal and has been well-kept. The teak deck
is in quite good condition, as are the topside fittings and rigging.
Belowdecks, the engine is easily accessible, the cabin layout is sensible
and not ostentatiously ornate. She has a genset, which is a plus, but no
stove- a definite minus (one could easily be added, however). She's
radar-equipped, no SSB or GPS. She would be a fine live-aboard and coastal
cruiser, and should handle longer range cruising as the tankage is more than
adequate. I'd like to research Cheoy Lee's more; I liked this boat. At an
asking price of less than $60,000 she is well within my budget.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34, 1990 Model: Nice boat; she has a spartan
interior and a non-nonsense air about her. This boat is clearly designed
for ocean passages. Living aboard would not be difficult, but again the
boat is designed to go anywhere, not sit on a dock. At just under $100,000
she is out of my price range, so I didn't really seriously evaluate all her
features.

Cabo Rico 38, 1981 Model: She was once a nice boat, but neglect has sadly
hurt her. The below $80,000 price reflects the condition she's in; it would
take a lot of work to bring this boat up to snuff. The teak deck is shot.
I would take a pass on this boat; I don't want a project.

Tayana 37, 1982 Model: Wonderful boat, she has lots of room and is built
like a tank. She has a Perkins, which I like as I have lots of experience
with them. She's air-conditioned as well, a must in Texas. Very beamy and
not at all claustrophobic, the boat is clearly designed for comfort and
safety. She is equipped with a wind generator as well as a wind vane
steering system. She has no navigation station; the large quarterberth is
designed as an aft stateroom. I would prefer a nav station, but a fold down
table sort of thing could be easily added by a carpenter. Electronics
consists of an SSB; a radar and GPS system would have to be added (I am a
Garmin GPS junkie, I'll freely admit that Her asking price of $85,000 is
within my budget, though I would have to scrape for any planned add-ons.

It should be apparent that the first and last boats I looked at were the two
which appealed most to me. I have distinct reservations about a teak deck,
and while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is, she would no doubt provide years of performance and satisfaction.
The Tayana represents security, comfort, and hominess. She has many of the
features I would like in a boat, and probably represents the better
investment of the two. It's quite clear to me that I am not exactly sure
what I want at this point in time, although I am sure that as I continue to
research and actively start sailing that this will become self-evident
before I buy. I understand now why searching for a boat can take quite some
time.

Wendy

The underlayment of teak decks on Tayanas is built up of softwood
squares individually isolated by dams of polyester. If such
underlayment does get wet it usually doesnt not spread accross the
whole deck as would be the case with ''sheets' of core filler.
Not that you cant get a soggy deck on a Tayana; but, if you do the
damage wont be as catastrophic as would a deck with continuous
underlayment filler. Teak deck maintenance isnt all that bad if you
kkep up a gentle and consistent regime of maintenance. Hell, I bet you
expend more time scrubbing a glass deck than a teak deck owner does in
periodically looking for loose bungs.

Give me a teak deck anytime. So what if it makes the boat a bit more
top heavy, **nothing** is this world has the non-dkid ability of bare
teak.

The underlayment of teak decks on Tayanas is built up of softwood
squares individually isolated by dams of polyester. If such
underlayment does get wet it usually doesnt not spread accross the
whole deck as would be the case with ''sheets' of core filler.
Not that you cant get a soggy deck on a Tayana; but, if you do the
damage wont be as catastrophic as would a deck with continuous
underlayment filler. Teak deck maintenance isnt all that bad if you
kkep up a gentle and consistent regime of maintenance. Hell, I bet you
expend more time scrubbing a glass deck than a teak deck owner does in
periodically looking for loose bungs.

Give me a teak deck anytime. So what if it makes the boat a bit more
top heavy, **nothing** is this world has the non-dkid ability of bare
teak.

I state again, when you get serious about the purchase of a particular
design .... go to the owners groups located on the web, etc.
Most of these owners groups have periodic rendezvous, etc. Thse owners
groups are usually open to 'prospective' owners and may invite you to a
rendevous or two. That way you will be able to really 'kick some tires'
and maybe get a sail or two in (the usual entry fee is a covered dish).

Also most 'good' boats are sold (quickly) though such owners groups.
Its the boats that dont move quick that get shunted off to 'brokers'
..... with added commission fees, etc.





In article , Eric
wrote:

I would recommend you stay away from the teak deck in a boat almost 20
years old. Teak decks, because of the screw holes (used to hold the
teak down), are prone to causing saturation and/or delamination of
the underlying deck core material unless the boat has been well
maintained for the entire 20 years. Just because it looks good
doesn't mean that the underlying deck and core are in good condition.
Repairing a saturated core is a major (read: expensive) job.

The PS Crealock is probably the best quality but, as you are seeing,
that comes at a high price. It's also pretty small inside (IMO).

Don't compromise on the boat. You can always stretch out the purchase
of the extras.

Eric

"Wendy" wrote in message
...
I had a close look at four boats today, all offered through brokers. The
experience was a pleasurable one; the brokers were pleasant enough and quite
helpful. The weather was a bit cool for my taste, though. Anyway, here's
what I looked over in the order in which I saw them, along with my thoughts:

Cheoy Lee Pedrick 36, 1985 Model: This boat is simply a very good looking
boat; it has loads of visual appeal and has been well-kept. The teak deck
is in quite good condition, as are the topside fittings and rigging.
Belowdecks, the engine is easily accessible, the cabin layout is sensible
and not ostentatiously ornate. She has a genset, which is a plus, but no
stove- a definite minus (one could easily be added, however). She's
radar-equipped, no SSB or GPS. She would be a fine live-aboard and coastal
cruiser, and should handle longer range cruising as the tankage is more than
adequate. I'd like to research Cheoy Lee's more; I liked this boat. At an
asking price of less than $60,000 she is well within my budget.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34, 1990 Model: Nice boat; she has a spartan
interior and a non-nonsense air about her. This boat is clearly designed
for ocean passages. Living aboard would not be difficult, but again the
boat is designed to go anywhere, not sit on a dock. At just under $100,000
she is out of my price range, so I didn't really seriously evaluate all her
features.

Cabo Rico 38, 1981 Model: She was once a nice boat, but neglect has sadly
hurt her. The below $80,000 price reflects the condition she's in; it would
take a lot of work to bring this boat up to snuff. The teak deck is shot.
I would take a pass on this boat; I don't want a project.

Tayana 37, 1982 Model: Wonderful boat, she has lots of room and is built
like a tank. She has a Perkins, which I like as I have lots of experience
with them. She's air-conditioned as well, a must in Texas. Very beamy and
not at all claustrophobic, the boat is clearly designed for comfort and
safety. She is equipped with a wind generator as well as a wind vane
steering system. She has no navigation station; the large quarterberth is
designed as an aft stateroom. I would prefer a nav station, but a fold down
table sort of thing could be easily added by a carpenter. Electronics
consists of an SSB; a radar and GPS system would have to be added (I am a
Garmin GPS junkie, I'll freely admit that Her asking price of $85,000 is
within my budget, though I would have to scrape for any planned add-ons.

It should be apparent that the first and last boats I looked at were the two
which appealed most to me. I have distinct reservations about a teak deck,
and while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is, she would no doubt provide years of performance and satisfaction.
The Tayana represents security, comfort, and hominess. She has many of the
features I would like in a boat, and probably represents the better
investment of the two. It's quite clear to me that I am not exactly sure
what I want at this point in time, although I am sure that as I continue to
research and actively start sailing that this will become self-evident
before I buy. I understand now why searching for a boat can take quite some
time.

Wendy

I state again, when you get serious about the purchase of a particular
design .... go to the owners groups located on the web, etc.
Most of these owners groups have periodic rendezvous, etc. Thse owners
groups are usually open to 'prospective' owners and may invite you to a
rendevous or two. That way you will be able to really 'kick some tires'
and maybe get a sail or two in (the usual entry fee is a covered dish).

Also most 'good' boats are sold (quickly) though such owners groups.
Its the boats that dont move quick that get shunted off to 'brokers'
..... with added commission fees, etc.





In article , Eric
wrote:

I would recommend you stay away from the teak deck in a boat almost 20
years old. Teak decks, because of the screw holes (used to hold the
teak down), are prone to causing saturation and/or delamination of
the underlying deck core material unless the boat has been well
maintained for the entire 20 years. Just because it looks good
doesn't mean that the underlying deck and core are in good condition.
Repairing a saturated core is a major (read: expensive) job.

The PS Crealock is probably the best quality but, as you are seeing,
that comes at a high price. It's also pretty small inside (IMO).

Don't compromise on the boat. You can always stretch out the purchase
of the extras.

Eric

"Wendy" wrote in message
...
I had a close look at four boats today, all offered through brokers. The
experience was a pleasurable one; the brokers were pleasant enough and quite
helpful. The weather was a bit cool for my taste, though. Anyway, here's
what I looked over in the order in which I saw them, along with my thoughts:

Cheoy Lee Pedrick 36, 1985 Model: This boat is simply a very good looking
boat; it has loads of visual appeal and has been well-kept. The teak deck
is in quite good condition, as are the topside fittings and rigging.
Belowdecks, the engine is easily accessible, the cabin layout is sensible
and not ostentatiously ornate. She has a genset, which is a plus, but no
stove- a definite minus (one could easily be added, however). She's
radar-equipped, no SSB or GPS. She would be a fine live-aboard and coastal
cruiser, and should handle longer range cruising as the tankage is more than
adequate. I'd like to research Cheoy Lee's more; I liked this boat. At an
asking price of less than $60,000 she is well within my budget.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 34, 1990 Model: Nice boat; she has a spartan
interior and a non-nonsense air about her. This boat is clearly designed
for ocean passages. Living aboard would not be difficult, but again the
boat is designed to go anywhere, not sit on a dock. At just under $100,000
she is out of my price range, so I didn't really seriously evaluate all her
features.

Cabo Rico 38, 1981 Model: She was once a nice boat, but neglect has sadly
hurt her. The below $80,000 price reflects the condition she's in; it would
take a lot of work to bring this boat up to snuff. The teak deck is shot.
I would take a pass on this boat; I don't want a project.

Tayana 37, 1982 Model: Wonderful boat, she has lots of room and is built
like a tank. She has a Perkins, which I like as I have lots of experience
with them. She's air-conditioned as well, a must in Texas. Very beamy and
not at all claustrophobic, the boat is clearly designed for comfort and
safety. She is equipped with a wind generator as well as a wind vane
steering system. She has no navigation station; the large quarterberth is
designed as an aft stateroom. I would prefer a nav station, but a fold down
table sort of thing could be easily added by a carpenter. Electronics
consists of an SSB; a radar and GPS system would have to be added (I am a
Garmin GPS junkie, I'll freely admit that Her asking price of $85,000 is
within my budget, though I would have to scrape for any planned add-ons.

It should be apparent that the first and last boats I looked at were the two
which appealed most to me. I have distinct reservations about a teak deck,
and while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is, she would no doubt provide years of performance and satisfaction.
The Tayana represents security, comfort, and hominess. She has many of the
features I would like in a boat, and probably represents the better
investment of the two. It's quite clear to me that I am not exactly sure
what I want at this point in time, although I am sure that as I continue to
research and actively start sailing that this will become self-evident
before I buy. I understand now why searching for a boat can take quite some
time.

Wendy

"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
The Tayana and the CL-P36 have almost identical base numbers, although
the TY37 is a bit faster (hull speed).

(very good stuff snipped)

Thanks loads! That's the sort of information it is nice to have, yet it
isn't readily apparent.

I'm with you on the booze weight

Wendy