engsol wrote:
The other suggestion I offer is to make a list of "needs" and "wants". (Works well when buying
a house too!)

My example:
1. Fin keel (coastal cruising in sometimes tight waters)
2. Good engine access
3. 30 - 32 feet (I'll be single-handing most of the time)
4. Sloop or cutter rigged (no experience with ketch)
5. Don't care about the electronics...I'll retrofit w/ new
6. Tiny galley OK.

You get the idea.

Keep us posted with your progress...good luck.
Norm

Norm makes good sense. Just for comparison, my list includes:

1. Draft amenable to ICW and Bahamas -- 5ish feet is fine, although I
could live with 6 with some additional stress.
2. Rigged for single-handing (although I'm thinking 35-42 feet)
3. Cutter or ketch
4. Galley you can really cook in
5. Island berth in owner's cabin, preferably aft
6. Ability to shower without soaking the head, particularly the toilet
7. Accessibility to machinery
8. Storage
9. Nav station or other accommodation that can be a real desk for
working, including seating (that is likely to be customized) that
provides decent back support

I'm looking at the IP 370 and HR 40, probably new. If this all works
out, I'll sell my house and roll the bulk of the proceeds into the boat.

dv

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news_bucket e-mail address goes to a blackhole. Sorry. Send e-mail to
"respond" at the same domain.

"Dave Skolnick" wrote in message
news:7EfTb.14505$u_6.2617@lakeread04...
engsol wrote:
The other suggestion I offer is to make a list of "needs" and "wants".
My example:
1. Fin keel (coastal cruising in sometimes tight waters)

The Cheoy Lee offers this, the Tayana does not

2. Good engine access

Both boats have this, though I have to give the nod to the Tayana, which has
a Perkins as opposed to the CL's Universal.

3. 30 - 32 feet (I'll be single-handing most of the time)

I'll live on her, so I'd prefer 36-37.

4. Sloop or cutter rigged (no experience with ketch)

I'm with you here, I don't want to deal with two masts. The Tayana is a
cutter, which is probably easier to handle than the Cheoy Lee sloop.

5. Don't care about the electronics...I'll retrofit w/ new
6. Tiny galley OK.

Same here. I'll give the edge to the Cheoy Lee in these departments.

Norm makes good sense. Just for comparison, my list includes:

1. Draft amenable to ICW and Bahamas -- 5ish feet is fine, although I
could live with 6 with some additional stress.

At 5'8" the Cheoy Lee is comfy; one would have to take care in sounds and
protected anchorages in the Western Caribbean.

2. Rigged for single-handing (although I'm thinking 35-42 feet)
3. Cutter or ketch

Easily done with the Cheoy Lee, although she is a sloop.

4. Galley you can really cook in

I'd give the edge to the Tayana here, but either boat would do. The Cheoy
Lee would require the purchase and installation of a stove- another $1500?

5. Island berth in owner's cabin, preferably aft

Want comfy quarterberth at sea, both boats fit this requirement.

6. Ability to shower without soaking the head, particularly the toilet

The Tayana; no contest here.

7. Accessibility to machinery

Both the same, though again the Perkins appeals.

8. Storage

Comparable, probably more on the Tayana.

9. Nav station or other accommodation that can be a real desk for
working, including seating (that is likely to be customized) that
provides decent back support

No nav station in the Tayana. No back support in the Cheoy Lee, but how
much time will I spend at the nav station? Probably not much.

I'm looking at the IP 370 and HR 40, probably new. If this all works
out, I'll sell my house and roll the bulk of the proceeds into the boat.

My funds will probably come from an inheritance, though one never knows
about these things. I'm putting the house on the market this spring.

I didn't really mean this mail to be a rebuttal of the points the two of you
brought up, but more of a personal consideration of these points. I do like
the approach you take as concerns needs and wants. In that vein, not
necessarily in order of importance:

1. Visual appeal, from a personal standpoint. I want to fall in love again
everytime I see my boat.
2. Sailability- she should be forgiving, but a good performer easily taken
out for an afternoon or a month.
3. Nav station upgradeable with my personal electronic choices. As a pilot
this is important to me.
4. 35' minimum as I will live aboard; cutter or sloop rigged.
5. Capable of transatlantic/circumnavigation.

Seems like I just described the new Island Packet 37 I noticed this weekend
for sale. For $250,000 bare. sigh.

Wendy

"Dave Skolnick" wrote in message
news:7EfTb.14505$u_6.2617@lakeread04...
engsol wrote:
The other suggestion I offer is to make a list of "needs" and "wants".
My example:
1. Fin keel (coastal cruising in sometimes tight waters)

The Cheoy Lee offers this, the Tayana does not

2. Good engine access

Both boats have this, though I have to give the nod to the Tayana, which has
a Perkins as opposed to the CL's Universal.

3. 30 - 32 feet (I'll be single-handing most of the time)

I'll live on her, so I'd prefer 36-37.

4. Sloop or cutter rigged (no experience with ketch)

I'm with you here, I don't want to deal with two masts. The Tayana is a
cutter, which is probably easier to handle than the Cheoy Lee sloop.

5. Don't care about the electronics...I'll retrofit w/ new
6. Tiny galley OK.

Same here. I'll give the edge to the Cheoy Lee in these departments.

Norm makes good sense. Just for comparison, my list includes:

1. Draft amenable to ICW and Bahamas -- 5ish feet is fine, although I
could live with 6 with some additional stress.

At 5'8" the Cheoy Lee is comfy; one would have to take care in sounds and
protected anchorages in the Western Caribbean.

2. Rigged for single-handing (although I'm thinking 35-42 feet)
3. Cutter or ketch

Easily done with the Cheoy Lee, although she is a sloop.

4. Galley you can really cook in

I'd give the edge to the Tayana here, but either boat would do. The Cheoy
Lee would require the purchase and installation of a stove- another $1500?

5. Island berth in owner's cabin, preferably aft

Want comfy quarterberth at sea, both boats fit this requirement.

6. Ability to shower without soaking the head, particularly the toilet

The Tayana; no contest here.

7. Accessibility to machinery

Both the same, though again the Perkins appeals.

8. Storage

Comparable, probably more on the Tayana.

9. Nav station or other accommodation that can be a real desk for
working, including seating (that is likely to be customized) that
provides decent back support

No nav station in the Tayana. No back support in the Cheoy Lee, but how
much time will I spend at the nav station? Probably not much.

I'm looking at the IP 370 and HR 40, probably new. If this all works
out, I'll sell my house and roll the bulk of the proceeds into the boat.

My funds will probably come from an inheritance, though one never knows
about these things. I'm putting the house on the market this spring.

I didn't really mean this mail to be a rebuttal of the points the two of you
brought up, but more of a personal consideration of these points. I do like
the approach you take as concerns needs and wants. In that vein, not
necessarily in order of importance:

1. Visual appeal, from a personal standpoint. I want to fall in love again
everytime I see my boat.
2. Sailability- she should be forgiving, but a good performer easily taken
out for an afternoon or a month.
3. Nav station upgradeable with my personal electronic choices. As a pilot
this is important to me.
4. 35' minimum as I will live aboard; cutter or sloop rigged.
5. Capable of transatlantic/circumnavigation.

Seems like I just described the new Island Packet 37 I noticed this weekend
for sale. For $250,000 bare. sigh.

Wendy

while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is,

The Cheoy Lee is probably a better ocean passage boat than the Tayana, except
that the 36 foot CL has an installed genset, which usually -- on that size boat
-- makes the boat more top heavy, and also puts it off its lines. The Tayana
starts top heavy.

The Cabo Rico 38 is also a bit top heavy.

All three of the boats look very nice, and any of the three would probably do
you very well for the kind of sailing you might actually like.

while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is,

The Cheoy Lee is probably a better ocean passage boat than the Tayana, except
that the 36 foot CL has an installed genset, which usually -- on that size boat
-- makes the boat more top heavy, and also puts it off its lines. The Tayana
starts top heavy.

The Cabo Rico 38 is also a bit top heavy.

All three of the boats look very nice, and any of the three would probably do
you very well for the kind of sailing you might actually like.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is,

The Cheoy Lee is probably a better ocean passage boat than the Tayana,
except
that the 36 foot CL has an installed genset, which usually -- on that size
boat
-- makes the boat more top heavy, and also puts it off its lines. The
Tayana
starts top heavy.

Hmmm. The genset rides at about the wateline, or slightly below. I'm not
sure about the weight, etc. I'm going to take a hard look at her this
weekend- spend a couple hours developing a gripe list, find out what sort of
tanks she has, etc. I'm sure she's a faster and more responsive boat than
the Tayana, although surely not as comfy. That whole teak deck drama gives
me pause, but my oh my, she is a beautiful boat.

Here's the link again, if anyone's interested:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...&&ywo=sealake&

Don't know why I'm as interested as I am in this boat. I'm certainly not
ready to buy...

Wendy

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is,

The Cheoy Lee is probably a better ocean passage boat than the Tayana,
except
that the 36 foot CL has an installed genset, which usually -- on that size
boat
-- makes the boat more top heavy, and also puts it off its lines. The
Tayana
starts top heavy.

Hmmm. The genset rides at about the wateline, or slightly below. I'm not
sure about the weight, etc. I'm going to take a hard look at her this
weekend- spend a couple hours developing a gripe list, find out what sort of
tanks she has, etc. I'm sure she's a faster and more responsive boat than
the Tayana, although surely not as comfy. That whole teak deck drama gives
me pause, but my oh my, she is a beautiful boat.

Here's the link again, if anyone's interested:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...&&ywo=sealake&

Don't know why I'm as interested as I am in this boat. I'm certainly not
ready to buy...

Wendy

pretty boat.

As a side thought (that may be completely off), boat prices *seem* to have gone
up a bit in recent history after going rather flat to down something to a lot
of something in the previous 2 - 3 years (no buyers out there). I say "seems",
for as a friend pointed out to me the boats seen listed are those that are
currently for sale, and may be those boats no one has bought nor will buy
because of the price. Owners *may* be listing in hopes of a market recovery
that isn't there. I am also pretty sure the sailboat market will take a shot
in the shorts come next summer, as the economy starts to tank (the economy has
been artifically propped up to help the incumbants get reelected [duh, who
wudda thunk either political party would do such a thing?], which is likely to
be underway (though not yet reportable under the standard definitions of
"recession") by summertime, and falling even more so into the fall and winter.

Also, the market today for cruising type sailboats is baby boomer, who are all
now mid 40's to late 50's, and getting a bit more creaky physically. Sailbaot
brokers in Annapolis last fall were bitching they were lossing sales to
trawlers because of this. Wednesday I am helping a friend look at a well
regarded boat with an asking price of about 40% of what it might have been sold
for 4 years ago.

you can always pass up any particular good deal, for good deals come along all
the time.

while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is,

The Cheoy Lee is probably a better ocean passage boat than the Tayana,
except
that the 36 foot CL has an installed genset, which usually -- on that size
boat
-- makes the boat more top heavy, and also puts it off its lines. The
Tayana
starts top heavy.

Hmmm. The genset rides at about the wateline, or slightly below. I'm not
sure about the weight, etc. I'm going to take a hard look at her this
weekend- spend a couple hours developing a gripe list, find out what sort of
tanks she has, etc. I'm sure she's a faster and more responsive boat than
the Tayana, although surely not as comfy. That whole teak deck drama gives
me pause, but my oh my, she is a beautiful boat.

Here's the link again, if anyone's interested:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...units=Feet&che
cked_boats=970810&slim=broker&&hosturl=sealake&&yw o=sealake&

Don't know why I'm as interested as I am in this boat. I'm certainly not
ready to buy...

Wendy

pretty boat.

As a side thought (that may be completely off), boat prices *seem* to have gone
up a bit in recent history after going rather flat to down something to a lot
of something in the previous 2 - 3 years (no buyers out there). I say "seems",
for as a friend pointed out to me the boats seen listed are those that are
currently for sale, and may be those boats no one has bought nor will buy
because of the price. Owners *may* be listing in hopes of a market recovery
that isn't there. I am also pretty sure the sailboat market will take a shot
in the shorts come next summer, as the economy starts to tank (the economy has
been artifically propped up to help the incumbants get reelected [duh, who
wudda thunk either political party would do such a thing?], which is likely to
be underway (though not yet reportable under the standard definitions of
"recession") by summertime, and falling even more so into the fall and winter.

Also, the market today for cruising type sailboats is baby boomer, who are all
now mid 40's to late 50's, and getting a bit more creaky physically. Sailbaot
brokers in Annapolis last fall were bitching they were lossing sales to
trawlers because of this. Wednesday I am helping a friend look at a well
regarded boat with an asking price of about 40% of what it might have been sold
for 4 years ago.

you can always pass up any particular good deal, for good deals come along all
the time.

while the Cheoy Lee is not the dedicated ocean passage boat that the
Tayana is,

The Cheoy Lee is probably a better ocean passage boat than the Tayana,
except
that the 36 foot CL has an installed genset, which usually -- on that size
boat
-- makes the boat more top heavy, and also puts it off its lines. The
Tayana
starts top heavy.

Hmmm. The genset rides at about the wateline, or slightly below. I'm not
sure about the weight, etc. I'm going to take a hard look at her this
weekend- spend a couple hours developing a gripe list, find out what sort of
tanks she has, etc. I'm sure she's a faster and more responsive boat than
the Tayana, although surely not as comfy. That whole teak deck drama gives
me pause, but my oh my, she is a beautiful boat.

Here's the link again, if anyone's interested:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...units=Feet&che
cked_boats=970810&slim=broker&&hosturl=sealake&&yw o=sealake&

Don't know why I'm as interested as I am in this boat. I'm certainly not
ready to buy...

Wendy

Wendy wrote:
Here's the link again, if anyone's interested:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...&&ywo=sealake&

Don't know why I'm as interested as I am in this boat. I'm certainly not
ready to buy...

Thanks for posting the link. I always like to window-shop and look over
other people's shoulders. Does the cabinet around the motor come
completely apart? If not, the engine access doesn't look too good to me.
The genset access looks terrible. Also, you've heard the stories about
teak decks, especially taiwan teak decks... "Danger Will Rogers!"

One point I don't know if anybody else has mentioned-
ballast/displacement ratio. If this boat's *sailing* displacement (which
is a different figure from it's weight as it left the factory, a figure
often quoted as 'displacement') is really 16K# then it's b/d ratio is a
tad under 40%... close to the minimum for a seagoing boat IMHO. And if
the displacement figure is fudged, as they often are, then it is in a
grey area. Furthermore the stability will be degraded as you load stores
(true of almost any boat, but much less important as the B/D ratio gets
up towards 50%). Rather a nit-picky technical issue, but one that is
important.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King