On 25 Jan 2004 12:56:55 -0800, (Parallax)
wrote:


In fog, or at least when I see it coming, I take a quick bearing so I
know where I am, note my course and get out of the channel if any and
put up the radar reflector. I rarely see other traffic where I sail
but in fog I sound the horn and sit it out, sometimes for hours. I
still think Radar is just an expensive gadget for a small (28')
sailboat.


We used to do that also (three or more bearings if possible) on a 30
ft boat. But, having learned ot use it, I have a different opinion.
You haven't said where you sail.



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Wanting to meet a writer because you like his work is like wanting to meet a duck because you like pate."
Margaret Atwood

Parallax wrote:

In fog, or at least when I see it coming, I take a quick bearing so
I know where I am, note my course and get out of the channel if any
and put up the radar reflector ...

You cannot know where you _are_ with a single bearing. You can, however,
get a good idea of where you are _not_.

I rarely see other traffic where I
sail but in fog I sound the horn and sit it out, sometimes for
hours ...

Sounding the horn while "sitting it out" is a violation of the COLREGS. Use
a bell at anchor, and a horn underway. Make sure you study the sound
signals that apply to your specific situation and to your particular vessel.

I still think Radar is just an expensive gadget for a small (28')
sailboat....

If you ask a fisherman's opinion about this, you may get an enlightening
perspective (isn't that what "Parallax" is about anyway?). Any person who
regularly operates a vessel without radar in situations of decreased
visibility (and I include rain and darkness in this category) is in essence
taking the position that "its up to the other guy to avoid me."

These days there is no excuse to behave so irresponsibly.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

Parallax wrote:
In fog, or at least when I see it coming, I take a quick bearing so
I know where I am, note my course and get out of the channel if any
and put up the radar reflector ...

Armond Perretta wrote:
You cannot know where you _are_ with a single bearing. You can, however,
get a good idea of where you are _not_.

If you're right on the edge of amarked channel, an EP + depth + bearing would
give a pretty good fix. My question is, how can you rely on taking a useful
bearing in fog, or even if a fog is approaching?




I rarely see other traffic where I
sail but in fog I sound the horn and sit it out, sometimes for
hours ...

Sounding the horn while "sitting it out" is a violation of the COLREGS. Use
a bell at anchor, and a horn underway. Make sure you study the sound
signals that apply to your specific situation and to your particular vessel.

Two points, still in play




I still think Radar is just an expensive gadget for a small (28')
sailboat....

If you ask a fisherman's opinion about this, you may get an enlightening
perspective (isn't that what "Parallax" is about anyway?). Any person who
regularly operates a vessel without radar in situations of decreased
visibility (and I include rain and darkness in this category) is in essence
taking the position that "its up to the other guy to avoid me."

I can see his point, but really the question is not "is radar *just* an
expensive gadget" but rather would a radar be useful enough (in the context of
boat, location, and type of sailing) to warrant the expense & complication? In
New England, I'd say yes with no reservations. Too much traffic out there and
fog too often. Plus it is a very handy navigational tool.

In my own case, I mostly sail in the southeast where there is not as much
traffic, shores are low & soft, and fog is rare. Furthermore, I never had a boat
with radar until two years ago, and never sailed with anybody who had it who
knew enough about it to make it a useful tool under the circumstances. So I
didn't think radar was all that hot, either.

Having made a cruise this past fall in which we spent a good amount of time
learning to use our radar, and then going through several incidents that pointed
out how useful a tool it can be, I am convinced that it is a great thing to
have. It certainly expands the capabilities of the vessel & skipper, *if* the
time is spent learning to use it and make it reliable. To simply buy it and
assume that possession of it renders one bulletproof is stupid... same could be
said of any GPS.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

Having made a cruise this past fall in which we spent a good amount
of time learning to use our radar, and then going through several
incidents that pointed out how useful a tool it can be, I am
convinced that it is a great thing to have ...

One important reason to buy a radar is because it looks really cool when
entering the marina, especially when combined with new foul weather gear.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

DSK wrote:

Having made a cruise this past fall in which we spent a good amount
of time learning to use our radar, and then going through several
incidents that pointed out how useful a tool it can be, I am
convinced that it is a great thing to have ...

One important reason to buy a radar is because it looks really cool when
entering the marina, especially when combined with new foul weather gear.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

DSK wrote in message ...
Parallax wrote:
In fog, or at least when I see it coming, I take a quick bearing so
I know where I am, note my course and get out of the channel if any
and put up the radar reflector ...

Armond Perretta wrote:
You cannot know where you _are_ with a single bearing. You can, however,
get a good idea of where you are _not_.

If you're right on the edge of amarked channel, an EP + depth + bearing would
give a pretty good fix. My question is, how can you rely on taking a useful
bearing in fog, or even if a fog is approaching?




I rarely see other traffic where I
sail but in fog I sound the horn and sit it out, sometimes for
hours ...

Sounding the horn while "sitting it out" is a violation of the COLREGS. Use
a bell at anchor, and a horn underway. Make sure you study the sound
signals that apply to your specific situation and to your particular vessel.

Two points, still in play




I still think Radar is just an expensive gadget for a small (28')
sailboat....

If you ask a fisherman's opinion about this, you may get an enlightening
perspective (isn't that what "Parallax" is about anyway?). Any person who
regularly operates a vessel without radar in situations of decreased
visibility (and I include rain and darkness in this category) is in essence
taking the position that "its up to the other guy to avoid me."

I can see his point, but really the question is not "is radar *just* an
expensive gadget" but rather would a radar be useful enough (in the context of
boat, location, and type of sailing) to warrant the expense & complication? In
New England, I'd say yes with no reservations. Too much traffic out there and
fog too often. Plus it is a very handy navigational tool.

In my own case, I mostly sail in the southeast where there is not as much
traffic, shores are low & soft, and fog is rare. Furthermore, I never had a boat
with radar until two years ago, and never sailed with anybody who had it who
knew enough about it to make it a useful tool under the circumstances. So I
didn't think radar was all that hot, either.

Having made a cruise this past fall in which we spent a good amount of time
learning to use our radar, and then going through several incidents that pointed
out how useful a tool it can be, I am convinced that it is a great thing to
have. It certainly expands the capabilities of the vessel & skipper, *if* the
time is spent learning to use it and make it reliable. To simply buy it and
assume that possession of it renders one bulletproof is stupid... same could be
said of any GPS.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Waaaaaaay too much literalness goin on here. With fog conditions
possible, always have a very good idea where you are. This means
having a very good idea of your course. This way, with a single LOP
and your known course, you can get your position. With sufficient
time (and there almost always is) get another LOP.
Where I sail (or perhaps when), the density of other vessels is so low
that probability of encounters is low. Probability is higher near
channels, but I dont spend much time there. The one time I found
myself in dense fog in a channel, I made sure I could get out of the
channel into shallow water where others normally dont go. Here, if I
run aground on an oyster bar, I figure others prob wont follow and its
no big deal to me.
I'd rather spend time knowing where I am than looking at another silly
electronic gadget.

DSK wrote in message ...
Parallax wrote:
In fog, or at least when I see it coming, I take a quick bearing so
I know where I am, note my course and get out of the channel if any
and put up the radar reflector ...

Armond Perretta wrote:
You cannot know where you _are_ with a single bearing. You can, however,
get a good idea of where you are _not_.

If you're right on the edge of amarked channel, an EP + depth + bearing would
give a pretty good fix. My question is, how can you rely on taking a useful
bearing in fog, or even if a fog is approaching?




I rarely see other traffic where I
sail but in fog I sound the horn and sit it out, sometimes for
hours ...

Sounding the horn while "sitting it out" is a violation of the COLREGS. Use
a bell at anchor, and a horn underway. Make sure you study the sound
signals that apply to your specific situation and to your particular vessel.

Two points, still in play




I still think Radar is just an expensive gadget for a small (28')
sailboat....

If you ask a fisherman's opinion about this, you may get an enlightening
perspective (isn't that what "Parallax" is about anyway?). Any person who
regularly operates a vessel without radar in situations of decreased
visibility (and I include rain and darkness in this category) is in essence
taking the position that "its up to the other guy to avoid me."

I can see his point, but really the question is not "is radar *just* an
expensive gadget" but rather would a radar be useful enough (in the context of
boat, location, and type of sailing) to warrant the expense & complication? In
New England, I'd say yes with no reservations. Too much traffic out there and
fog too often. Plus it is a very handy navigational tool.

In my own case, I mostly sail in the southeast where there is not as much
traffic, shores are low & soft, and fog is rare. Furthermore, I never had a boat
with radar until two years ago, and never sailed with anybody who had it who
knew enough about it to make it a useful tool under the circumstances. So I
didn't think radar was all that hot, either.

Having made a cruise this past fall in which we spent a good amount of time
learning to use our radar, and then going through several incidents that pointed
out how useful a tool it can be, I am convinced that it is a great thing to
have. It certainly expands the capabilities of the vessel & skipper, *if* the
time is spent learning to use it and make it reliable. To simply buy it and
assume that possession of it renders one bulletproof is stupid... same could be
said of any GPS.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Waaaaaaay too much literalness goin on here. With fog conditions
possible, always have a very good idea where you are. This means
having a very good idea of your course. This way, with a single LOP
and your known course, you can get your position. With sufficient
time (and there almost always is) get another LOP.
Where I sail (or perhaps when), the density of other vessels is so low
that probability of encounters is low. Probability is higher near
channels, but I dont spend much time there. The one time I found
myself in dense fog in a channel, I made sure I could get out of the
channel into shallow water where others normally dont go. Here, if I
run aground on an oyster bar, I figure others prob wont follow and its
no big deal to me.
I'd rather spend time knowing where I am than looking at another silly
electronic gadget.

Parallax wrote:
In fog, or at least when I see it coming, I take a quick bearing so
I know where I am, note my course and get out of the channel if any
and put up the radar reflector ...

Armond Perretta wrote:
You cannot know where you _are_ with a single bearing. You can, however,
get a good idea of where you are _not_.

If you're right on the edge of amarked channel, an EP + depth + bearing would
give a pretty good fix. My question is, how can you rely on taking a useful
bearing in fog, or even if a fog is approaching?




I rarely see other traffic where I
sail but in fog I sound the horn and sit it out, sometimes for
hours ...

Sounding the horn while "sitting it out" is a violation of the COLREGS. Use
a bell at anchor, and a horn underway. Make sure you study the sound
signals that apply to your specific situation and to your particular vessel.

Two points, still in play




I still think Radar is just an expensive gadget for a small (28')
sailboat....

If you ask a fisherman's opinion about this, you may get an enlightening
perspective (isn't that what "Parallax" is about anyway?). Any person who
regularly operates a vessel without radar in situations of decreased
visibility (and I include rain and darkness in this category) is in essence
taking the position that "its up to the other guy to avoid me."

I can see his point, but really the question is not "is radar *just* an
expensive gadget" but rather would a radar be useful enough (in the context of
boat, location, and type of sailing) to warrant the expense & complication? In
New England, I'd say yes with no reservations. Too much traffic out there and
fog too often. Plus it is a very handy navigational tool.

In my own case, I mostly sail in the southeast where there is not as much
traffic, shores are low & soft, and fog is rare. Furthermore, I never had a boat
with radar until two years ago, and never sailed with anybody who had it who
knew enough about it to make it a useful tool under the circumstances. So I
didn't think radar was all that hot, either.

Having made a cruise this past fall in which we spent a good amount of time
learning to use our radar, and then going through several incidents that pointed
out how useful a tool it can be, I am convinced that it is a great thing to
have. It certainly expands the capabilities of the vessel & skipper, *if* the
time is spent learning to use it and make it reliable. To simply buy it and
assume that possession of it renders one bulletproof is stupid... same could be
said of any GPS.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Parallax wrote:

In fog, or at least when I see it coming, I take a quick bearing so
I know where I am, note my course and get out of the channel if any
and put up the radar reflector ...

You cannot know where you _are_ with a single bearing. You can, however,
get a good idea of where you are _not_.

I rarely see other traffic where I
sail but in fog I sound the horn and sit it out, sometimes for
hours ...

Sounding the horn while "sitting it out" is a violation of the COLREGS. Use
a bell at anchor, and a horn underway. Make sure you study the sound
signals that apply to your specific situation and to your particular vessel.

I still think Radar is just an expensive gadget for a small (28')
sailboat....

If you ask a fisherman's opinion about this, you may get an enlightening
perspective (isn't that what "Parallax" is about anyway?). Any person who
regularly operates a vessel without radar in situations of decreased
visibility (and I include rain and darkness in this category) is in essence
taking the position that "its up to the other guy to avoid me."

These days there is no excuse to behave so irresponsibly.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.tripod.com

Harlan Lachman wrote in message .net...
In article , Parallax
wrote:

After many yrs of being a cheapskate sailor sailing without the
expensive gadgets thayt many other ppl have, I now find myself able to
afford to buy some of the gadgets I used to shun. All those yrs of
making do without has colored my thought processes so I naturally
avoid gadgetry. However, my recent installation of roller furling
really made sailing easier so I am reconsidering my attitude toward
gadgets. I would like input from other ppl on what gadgets really
make sailing better and what ones are simply a techno-pain in the ass.

For example: GPS is a necessity but I will keep my paper charts and
hand compass.

Take a look at the various units. Look at the software and how it
looks, especially in daylight. I like the Garmin units but there are
lots of reviews touting different reasons for different brands. The
only way to see what works for you is to see them. A good GPS can
change the way you sail. Really.

Depthsounder is necessary. Permanently mounted VHF
necessary.

So:

Knotlog- really useful or does the reading off the GPS suffice?
Handheld VHF- useful or not?

Critical. Belts and suspenders. If you have problems with your power
your fixed VHF don't work. If something goes wrong, if you go ashore
and want to call for a launch, one of the tiny handhelds is great and a
great safety device.

Electronic masthead windmeter (I'd like one but am doubtful about its
robustness)- useful or not?
Radar- Takes too much power I think for a sailboat.

If you sail in areas with fog (e.g., coast of Maine) sailing without
one is selfish and a disservice to all on the water around you.

Lazy jacks- (I am sure I can make my own) but really useful or not?

If you ever single hand or have inexperienced crew, one of the kindest
things you can do. I have em on a 20 foot daysailer and they make
single handing easy, reefing a breeze, and taking guests simple.

Harlan
Any other useful things?

Guests are there to work and I take pains to dispel any notion of
sailing being romantic.

In fog, or at least when I see it coming, I take a quick bearing so I
know where I am, note my course and get out of the channel if any and
put up the radar reflector. I rarely see other traffic where I sail
but in fog I sound the horn and sit it out, sometimes for hours. I
still think Radar is just an expensive gadget for a small (28')
sailboat.