On 2007-11-21 13:10:00 -0500, Larry said:

Here's the scariest website I know of:
http://kitco.com/LFgif/au1825nyb.gif
Sure glad I'm not dependent on money for fuel....

I understand your sentiment, but I was around in the 70s when it became
legal to own gold again -- and the price bounced to $800/oz on
speculation. The current valuations are simply speculation by the worst
of the pessimists.

As much as I believe oil is (still) priced artificially low --
particularly in the US -- as the cost of that raw material goes up,
alternate sources and alternate power sources will be developed.

Back when I was in school (the late 60s), "they" said we'd run out of
oil about 2000. Now that we've passed that milestone, "they" are saying
we'll run out of oil in about the same time period.

"They" also said at the time that we were heading towards a little ice age....

The problem with such predictions is that they're based upon everything
staying the same and, as we're all aware, the only constant is change.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 00:21:39 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2007-11-21 13:10:00 -0500, Larry said:

Here's the scariest website I know of:
http://kitco.com/LFgif/au1825nyb.gif
Sure glad I'm not dependent on money for fuel....

I understand your sentiment, but I was around in the 70s when it became
legal to own gold again -- and the price bounced to $800/oz on
speculation. The current valuations are simply speculation by the worst
of the pessimists.

As much as I believe oil is (still) priced artificially low --
particularly in the US -- as the cost of that raw material goes up,
alternate sources and alternate power sources will be developed.

In actual fact the costs of exploration and production drilling
and/or production costs for oil have not gone up appreciably. The high
oil costs are a direct effect of greater world usage.

Now having said that there many fields that were discovered years ago
but were too expensive to produce at crude prices at the time of
discovery that are now being re-drilled as current costs make them
viable to produce.

Back when I was in school (the late 60s), "they" said we'd run out of
oil about 2000. Now that we've passed that milestone, "they" are saying
we'll run out of oil in about the same time period.

Most "estimates" have been made on known sources and were reasonable
accurate for those sources, but as prices go up more expensive methods
of exploration become more economical and new discoveries are being
made. Of course, oil is finite and the day will come when it is no
longer available but I doubt that anyone knows with any certainty when
that will occur.

"They" also said at the time that we were heading towards a little ice age....

The problem with such predictions is that they're based upon everything
staying the same and, as we're all aware, the only constant is change.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

The high
oil costs are a direct effect of greater world usage.


I disagree. The price of oil is caused by these incessant wars the bankers
create to lend vast sums of their banknotes to governments, at interest, to
reap huge profits.

Case in point, look at this chart compensated for the bankers devaluing
their banknotes:
http://zfacts.com/p/35.html
Each huge increase in the price of fuel is caused by WAR, not consumption.
It is CONTRIVED, and was fed the ultimate gift by the false flag operation
of 9/11/01 by the criminals in power...in banking and in government.


Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:31:41 +0000, Larry wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

The high
oil costs are a direct effect of greater world usage.


I disagree. The price of oil is caused by these incessant wars the bankers
create to lend vast sums of their banknotes to governments, at interest, to
reap huge profits.

Case in point, look at this chart compensated for the bankers devaluing
their banknotes:
http://zfacts.com/p/35.html
Each huge increase in the price of fuel is caused by WAR, not consumption.
It is CONTRIVED, and was fed the ultimate gift by the false flag operation
of 9/11/01 by the criminals in power...in banking and in government.


Larry


You are correct that the price of oil generally goes up during a war
however at the moment the demand for oil is going up at a pretty high
rate. Higher demand, higher price.

But "contrived" is too strong a statement, influenced perhaps. I was
around the oil business too long. Oil is sold in many ways but a large
percent is not controlled by the international oil companies.

For example: for years the Internationals operating oil fields in
Indonesia had to allocate a certain percent of their production to
Indonesia for domestic use. At the same time the Indonesian National
Oil Company was producing oil for use in Indonesia. The result was a
substantial amount of surplus oil that was sold onto the international
market by local brokers.

In some cases oil was even sold at prices lower then benchmark,prices
even though it was in fact benchmark oil. Why? Because the national
oil company needed money.

My point is that the oil business is not controlled by a monolithic
block, there are a multitude of little guys that are , in many cases
selling below market because they need the money.

If Indonesia were to announce tomorrow that they had made a discovery
of the largest oil deposits in history the price wold fall
dramatically because oil brokers would figure that there would be an
oil glut in a little while.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

If Indonesia were to announce tomorrow that they had made a discovery
of the largest oil deposits in history the price wold fall
dramatically because oil brokers would figure that there would be an
oil glut in a little while.



In 1978-79, I lived in Tehran, Iran. I worked for an American contractor
in the Iranian Air Force SIGINT/ELINT business. We monitored Saddam and
Afghanistan and along the Gulf, while the CIA kept an eye on the Russians
along the northern border from atop the Alborz Mountains.

I got to fly in the mission's C-130's across Iran many times, even though
it wasn't really my job description because I'm a good technician they
lacked. I'd fly every chance I got. When a Richter 7 earthquake hit the
little city of Tabbas, I flew 24/7 for over a week, sleeping on the
airplanes and eating MREs from a can delivering stuff to the refugees to
live on. It was awful. The whole city collapsed just as they were
eating dinner. 25,000 died in seconds.

I'll tell you where new oil is. It's in the Iranian mountains that have
never been walked on in the history of man. Most people have no idea now
VAST this country is. The population is centered around a scattering of
cities with an amazingly wide unspoiled wilderness in between. Iran's
mountains are some of the most beautiful places on the planet, totally
inaccessible on the ground. I sat for hours in the open aft hatch of the
C-130s taking it all in. Too bad cameras were forbidden. If we had
crashed, we'd still be there decades later.

As an example of what's in those mountains, two Americans who worked for
National Iranian Oil flew out to an area with no history looking for more
oil in a helicopter. They didn't find any. But, alas, they stumbled
upon the second largest deposit of virgin COPPER on the planet! Some of
it even laid on the ground! Noone knew of it, before, because in 5000
years noone had ever been there. There's only a shortage of ROADS and
PIPELINES in Iran.....it's why the bankers want America to attack them
next in their conquest for the "New World Order" Orwell described.

Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 00:21:39 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2007-11-21 13:10:00 -0500, Larry said:

Here's the scariest website I know of:
http://kitco.com/LFgif/au1825nyb.gif
Sure glad I'm not dependent on money for fuel....
I understand your sentiment, but I was around in the 70s when it became
legal to own gold again -- and the price bounced to $800/oz on
speculation. The current valuations are simply speculation by the worst
of the pessimists.

As much as I believe oil is (still) priced artificially low --
particularly in the US -- as the cost of that raw material goes up,
alternate sources and alternate power sources will be developed.

In actual fact the costs of exploration and production drilling
and/or production costs for oil have not gone up appreciably. The high
oil costs are a direct effect of greater world usage.

Now having said that there many fields that were discovered years ago
but were too expensive to produce at crude prices at the time of
discovery that are now being re-drilled as current costs make them
viable to produce.
Back when I was in school (the late 60s), "they" said we'd run out of
oil about 2000. Now that we've passed that milestone, "they" are saying
we'll run out of oil in about the same time period.

Most "estimates" have been made on known sources and were reasonable
accurate for those sources, but as prices go up more expensive methods
of exploration become more economical and new discoveries are being
made. Of course, oil is finite and the day will come when it is no
longer available but I doubt that anyone knows with any certainty when
that will occur.

"They" also said at the time that we were heading towards a little ice age....

The problem with such predictions is that they're based upon everything
staying the same and, as we're all aware, the only constant is change.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Crude price is based on the dollar. As the dollar falls, oil goes up.
G

Gordon wrote in news:13k9trbq2l8gr10
@corp.supernews.com:

Crude price is based on the dollar. As the dollar falls, oil goes up.
G


Not for long. OPEC is looking for a more stable currency. As the dollar's
value plummets, with OPEC countries holding vast piles of useless dollars
losing their asses, it's pretty easy to understand why they want rid of it.

The Amero will replace it. I think this devaluation is a scam to make the
Amero easier to sell to the stupid masses....just like 9-11....



Larry
--
Xterm IS the ultimate video game...(c;

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 05:05:28 +0000, Larry wrote:

Gordon wrote in news:13k9trbq2l8gr10
:

Crude price is based on the dollar. As the dollar falls, oil goes up.
G


Not for long. OPEC is looking for a more stable currency. As the dollar's
value plummets, with OPEC countries holding vast piles of useless dollars
losing their asses, it's pretty easy to understand why they want rid of it.

The Amero will replace it. I think this devaluation is a scam to make the
Amero easier to sell to the stupid masses....just like 9-11....



Larry


It doesn't matter what the price is quoted in. It used to be Pounds
Sterling, now it is dollars. tomorrow it might be gold. It is just a
standard way to verbalize a value. When it comes to paying for it the
payment can be made in any currency.

If a broker asks for payment to be made in dinars or Euros, or
whatever that is how the money gets paid over.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 19:28:32 -0800, Gordon wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 00:21:39 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2007-11-21 13:10:00 -0500, Larry said:

Here's the scariest website I know of:
http://kitco.com/LFgif/au1825nyb.gif
Sure glad I'm not dependent on money for fuel....
I understand your sentiment, but I was around in the 70s when it became
legal to own gold again -- and the price bounced to $800/oz on
speculation. The current valuations are simply speculation by the worst
of the pessimists.

As much as I believe oil is (still) priced artificially low --
particularly in the US -- as the cost of that raw material goes up,
alternate sources and alternate power sources will be developed.

In actual fact the costs of exploration and production drilling
and/or production costs for oil have not gone up appreciably. The high
oil costs are a direct effect of greater world usage.

Now having said that there many fields that were discovered years ago
but were too expensive to produce at crude prices at the time of
discovery that are now being re-drilled as current costs make them
viable to produce.
Back when I was in school (the late 60s), "they" said we'd run out of
oil about 2000. Now that we've passed that milestone, "they" are saying
we'll run out of oil in about the same time period.

Most "estimates" have been made on known sources and were reasonable
accurate for those sources, but as prices go up more expensive methods
of exploration become more economical and new discoveries are being
made. Of course, oil is finite and the day will come when it is no
longer available but I doubt that anyone knows with any certainty when
that will occur.

"They" also said at the time that we were heading towards a little ice age....

The problem with such predictions is that they're based upon everything
staying the same and, as we're all aware, the only constant is change.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

Crude price is based on the dollar. As the dollar falls, oil goes up.
G


That is correct in the sense that crude prices are quoted in US
dollars however the price is not necessarily paid in dollars.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)

On 2007-11-21 20:39:15 -0500, Bruce in Bangkok said:

Of course, oil is finite and the day will come when it is no longer
available but I doubt that anyone knows with any certainty when that
will occur.

I agree and am personally working towards zero "oil" consumption (even
bio-oil that I currently consume), but reiterate that some sources of
"oil" will be available if, and only if, the cost of the raw materials
rises to a realistic value.

If "crude" rises to $200 per barrel, reserves will "expand" exponentially.

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/